EBA & IR Issues in Australia (Not for those easily offended!)
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"Hope you make it though the 2 years Cart, you would have certainly earned your right to have a permanent Australian based position even though I'm sure you deserved one in the 1st place!"
I'll second that!!!
Take a leaf out of management's book.
Look after number 1.
I'll second that!!!
Take a leaf out of management's book.
Look after number 1.
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lax forum with JB
anyone listended to JB Q& not given and answer session in lax?
the funniest thing was he kept saying (at least 12 times) he is jetlegged before his offsider kicked in again. funny that travelling in a first class seat. what about the crew who worked and turned up for the Q and not get an answer or sidestep gig.
let him do a JFK shuttle in PC and i suppose you cant even ask a Q.
or maybe he was to busy thinking about investing his 18,4% wagerise (including performance bonuses) he got for last year
the funniest thing was he kept saying (at least 12 times) he is jetlegged before his offsider kicked in again. funny that travelling in a first class seat. what about the crew who worked and turned up for the Q and not get an answer or sidestep gig.
let him do a JFK shuttle in PC and i suppose you cant even ask a Q.
or maybe he was to busy thinking about investing his 18,4% wagerise (including performance bonuses) he got for last year
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10 out of 10
JB gave the usual company line in terms of expansion and the need to further cut costs. nothing we havent heard or read in
the papers. but you have to give him full marks for turning up to see crew. has been a long time.
the papers. but you have to give him full marks for turning up to see crew. has been a long time.
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LAX forum
As mentioned before, a mate of mine gave me a run down on JB's performance. "just the usual spin/crap-blah blah blah.
Apparentlly the Bone of Contention Hotel is not up to his usual 6 star standard- so he naturally did not stay in the crew hotel-why would he ???? He may of got bitten by bed bugs, assaulted by a bum or if he was really lucky some couple in the "adjoining room" could of been on their honey moon!!!!!!! Hubba hubba.
My mate said the only reason he goes to all these forums is to collect the 2 hours pay , and on this occasion to perve on the Visitor manager-ex Virgin Hostie-she had the mandatory scowl on her face throughout JB's session.!!!!!!
Apparentlly the Bone of Contention Hotel is not up to his usual 6 star standard- so he naturally did not stay in the crew hotel-why would he ???? He may of got bitten by bed bugs, assaulted by a bum or if he was really lucky some couple in the "adjoining room" could of been on their honey moon!!!!!!! Hubba hubba.
My mate said the only reason he goes to all these forums is to collect the 2 hours pay , and on this occasion to perve on the Visitor manager-ex Virgin Hostie-she had the mandatory scowl on her face throughout JB's session.!!!!!!
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From The Australian 9/9/05
Cabin crew mutiny over Kiwi aircraft recognition
Steve Creedy
September 09, 2005
AUSTRALIAN flight attendants have warned federal politicians they risk the flying public's safety if they pass legislation allowing New Zealand aircraft to fly in Australia under their own safety rules.
Mutual recognition amendments to the Civil Aviation Act are expected to go to parliament next week, after a committee endorsed legislation that would allow aircraft to fly on Australian domestic routes under New Zealand certification.
The legislation has been strongly opposed by unions worried about jobs moving across the Tasman.
Flight attendants have been particularly strident about potential safety problems posed by differences in the minimum number of flight attendants required on planes in the two countries.
Australia requires a minimum of one flight attendant for every 36 passengers, while New Zealand endorses an international standard of one for every 50.
Australian airlines are now widely expected to renew a push to get the minimum number of cabin attendants reduced.
There are fears they could also use New Zealand as a base for their Australian domestic operations.
Flight attendants say this would allow them to reduce the number of cabin crew on a Dash-8 commuter plane from two to one and on some Boeing 737s from four to three.
Flight Attendants Association of Australia domestic division secretary Darryl Watkins said there should be a detailed safety analysis of the move before it was introduced.
"Anyone who votes in favour of this bill in the Senate without a detailed analysis to ensure the safety of the travelling public will have it on their heads," Mr Watkins said. "They could jeopardise aviation safety in this country."
The Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee recommended the legislation be passed, but said it would be disappointed if the Australian aviation industry used the bill to reduce local employment. "The committee believes that however unintended, it is inevitable that the proposed legislation will encourage Australian operators to either reduce standards of employment or employment opportunities for cabin crew and pilots or encourage operators to move offshore," it said.
"The committee believes this may not be in the best interests of the travelling public, particularly if it results in the reduction of the standard of safety Australian passengers enjoy."
It also recommended that a comparative assessment by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority of the safety records of Australia and New Zealand be completed prior to any changes being made to Australia's safety regulatory regime relating to large aircraft.
In a dissenting report, Labor Party senators said the potential cost of the bill would be considerable but there had been no research undertaken by the Government to articulate or quantify the costs.
They said the greatest potential cost to Australia was the impact on air safety and that the majority report had failed to recognise the importance of cabin crew in this regard.
New Zealand passed similar legislation last year.
Cabin crew mutiny over Kiwi aircraft recognition
Steve Creedy
September 09, 2005
AUSTRALIAN flight attendants have warned federal politicians they risk the flying public's safety if they pass legislation allowing New Zealand aircraft to fly in Australia under their own safety rules.
Mutual recognition amendments to the Civil Aviation Act are expected to go to parliament next week, after a committee endorsed legislation that would allow aircraft to fly on Australian domestic routes under New Zealand certification.
The legislation has been strongly opposed by unions worried about jobs moving across the Tasman.
Flight attendants have been particularly strident about potential safety problems posed by differences in the minimum number of flight attendants required on planes in the two countries.
Australia requires a minimum of one flight attendant for every 36 passengers, while New Zealand endorses an international standard of one for every 50.
Australian airlines are now widely expected to renew a push to get the minimum number of cabin attendants reduced.
There are fears they could also use New Zealand as a base for their Australian domestic operations.
Flight attendants say this would allow them to reduce the number of cabin crew on a Dash-8 commuter plane from two to one and on some Boeing 737s from four to three.
Flight Attendants Association of Australia domestic division secretary Darryl Watkins said there should be a detailed safety analysis of the move before it was introduced.
"Anyone who votes in favour of this bill in the Senate without a detailed analysis to ensure the safety of the travelling public will have it on their heads," Mr Watkins said. "They could jeopardise aviation safety in this country."
The Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee recommended the legislation be passed, but said it would be disappointed if the Australian aviation industry used the bill to reduce local employment. "The committee believes that however unintended, it is inevitable that the proposed legislation will encourage Australian operators to either reduce standards of employment or employment opportunities for cabin crew and pilots or encourage operators to move offshore," it said.
"The committee believes this may not be in the best interests of the travelling public, particularly if it results in the reduction of the standard of safety Australian passengers enjoy."
It also recommended that a comparative assessment by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority of the safety records of Australia and New Zealand be completed prior to any changes being made to Australia's safety regulatory regime relating to large aircraft.
In a dissenting report, Labor Party senators said the potential cost of the bill would be considerable but there had been no research undertaken by the Government to articulate or quantify the costs.
They said the greatest potential cost to Australia was the impact on air safety and that the majority report had failed to recognise the importance of cabin crew in this regard.
New Zealand passed similar legislation last year.
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I'm voting yes to the dispensation...........
After hearing detailed discussion at Fridays FAAA meeting I have changed my mind and will be voting yes to the JFK dispensation.
Not because I feel any different about the sector itself as I don't but because I now understand the situation in it's entirety.
The dispensation can be withdrawn at a bid period's notice and I suspect it will be used to provide leverage in further negotiations.................
Our shorthaul "collegues" are about to commence their EBA negatiations and sadly we have much to fear...............
Further dispensations have been alluded to by posters on this forum.
SYD-DRW-BOM on an A330 perhaps or have the shorthaulers stolen that already???
On second thought, 15+ hours with those passengers and no horizontal crew rest.
Shorthaul can have it.
Jettlager
P.S. Voting yes to the dispensation isn't the same thing as saying you will do one.
Not because I feel any different about the sector itself as I don't but because I now understand the situation in it's entirety.
The dispensation can be withdrawn at a bid period's notice and I suspect it will be used to provide leverage in further negotiations.................
Our shorthaul "collegues" are about to commence their EBA negatiations and sadly we have much to fear...............
Further dispensations have been alluded to by posters on this forum.
SYD-DRW-BOM on an A330 perhaps or have the shorthaulers stolen that already???
On second thought, 15+ hours with those passengers and no horizontal crew rest.
Shorthaul can have it.
Jettlager
P.S. Voting yes to the dispensation isn't the same thing as saying you will do one.
Last edited by jettlager; 11th Sep 2005 at 11:37.
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What the...
So you will vote yes to protect your job but you're not prepared to do the flying.
That means that some junior person gets stuck with it.
Come on, where's your principles?
If you vote yes then be prepared to operate the thing!!
That means that some junior person gets stuck with it.
Come on, where's your principles?
If you vote yes then be prepared to operate the thing!!
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Qfcsm,
I understand what you are saying and voting yes to this dispensation bothers me. A LOT.
It's just at this point in time industrially we would be better off demonstrating flexibility, however it irks me to say so.
If you didn't get an opportunity to go to the meeting give MM, AS, or SR a call.
No doubt I'll have to do the trip come reserve line if the trip proves to be unpopular but out of controll sickleave may help to force qf's hand.
I know I sound like a hypocrite but in the light of the bigger battles with qf to come this battle might be better put off for another day.
Give the FAAA a call.
I understand what you are saying and voting yes to this dispensation bothers me. A LOT.
It's just at this point in time industrially we would be better off demonstrating flexibility, however it irks me to say so.
If you didn't get an opportunity to go to the meeting give MM, AS, or SR a call.
No doubt I'll have to do the trip come reserve line if the trip proves to be unpopular but out of controll sickleave may help to force qf's hand.
I know I sound like a hypocrite but in the light of the bigger battles with qf to come this battle might be better put off for another day.
Give the FAAA a call.
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jettlager
"No doubt I'll have to do the trip come reserve line if the trip proves to be unpopular but out of controll sickleave may help to force qf's hand."
if excessive sick leave is happening on the jfk sectors, then they company puts on the kiwis anyway, wouldn't you agree.
"I know I sound like a hypocrite but in the light of the bigger battles with qf to come this battle might be better put off for another day ".
doom and gloom not only from GD but also from the FAAA. and what bigger battles do you talk about?
as far as far as i am concerned the company uses this leverage to push shorthaul into longer more unrealistic single/multisectors in their upcoming EBA negotiations. and guess what then they come back and use it against longhaul again.
if excessive sick leave is happening on the jfk sectors, then they company puts on the kiwis anyway, wouldn't you agree.
"I know I sound like a hypocrite but in the light of the bigger battles with qf to come this battle might be better put off for another day ".
doom and gloom not only from GD but also from the FAAA. and what bigger battles do you talk about?
as far as far as i am concerned the company uses this leverage to push shorthaul into longer more unrealistic single/multisectors in their upcoming EBA negotiations. and guess what then they come back and use it against longhaul again.
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midnight63,
It's more than a bit rich taking the high moral ground given that you willingly trained in secret last year as a scab.
Did you not?
-------------------
Qcc2,
high sickleave will be symptomatic I suspect, regardless of who does it.
I dont have details of any bigger battles save to say that our shorthaul "collegues" are in EBA negotiation now.
Perhaps a demonstration of flexibility on our behalf "may" help reduce the incentive for qf to leach more of our flying to them or the Kiwis.
Perhaps I'm dreaming of a time long gone when qf negotiated in good faith but remember the dispensation can be revoked with one bid period's notice.
I'm no expert in industrial relations but I DO trust the judgement of the current FAAA officials.
It's more than a bit rich taking the high moral ground given that you willingly trained in secret last year as a scab.
Did you not?
-------------------
Qcc2,
high sickleave will be symptomatic I suspect, regardless of who does it.
I dont have details of any bigger battles save to say that our shorthaul "collegues" are in EBA negotiation now.
Perhaps a demonstration of flexibility on our behalf "may" help reduce the incentive for qf to leach more of our flying to them or the Kiwis.
Perhaps I'm dreaming of a time long gone when qf negotiated in good faith but remember the dispensation can be revoked with one bid period's notice.
I'm no expert in industrial relations but I DO trust the judgement of the current FAAA officials.
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JFK DISPENSATION...
jettlager....
It is a good thing to see that you bothered to attend an FAAA meeting and that on the basis of full information you are prepared to change your mind and support the JFK dispensation.
You are not the only person who is doing so.. the vast majority of members attending the FAAA meetings, including todays in Melbourne are going to vote to support the dispensation.
People like qcc2 and Midnight-63 are totally out of step with the general membership. They can commit suicide if they wish, but the FAAA leadership will not recommend suicide to the vast bulk of our crew who are sensible and pragmatic.
The mindless and inaccurate assertions by some in here have been dealt with by the FAAA at the meetings and that is why our crew will vote to protect their flying and their jobs.
Sensible people confront and deal with realities , only fools and dinosaurs refuse to adapt. That refusal leads to extinction.
It is a good thing to see that you bothered to attend an FAAA meeting and that on the basis of full information you are prepared to change your mind and support the JFK dispensation.
You are not the only person who is doing so.. the vast majority of members attending the FAAA meetings, including todays in Melbourne are going to vote to support the dispensation.
People like qcc2 and Midnight-63 are totally out of step with the general membership. They can commit suicide if they wish, but the FAAA leadership will not recommend suicide to the vast bulk of our crew who are sensible and pragmatic.
The mindless and inaccurate assertions by some in here have been dealt with by the FAAA at the meetings and that is why our crew will vote to protect their flying and their jobs.
Sensible people confront and deal with realities , only fools and dinosaurs refuse to adapt. That refusal leads to extinction.
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midnight63,
your hypocracy [for a scab] is nothing short of breathtaking. "self interest", I think I'm going to puke.
Don't EVER forget that those longhaul crew who smile at you at work know exactly what you are and what you WILLINGLY trained to do.
We know the differences between your lot and the Kiwis.
Are you so deaf and stupid not to hear the whispers and see the knowing looks.
Oh, thats right.
You ARE that stupid.
Secret passwords, blacked out windows in buses, back of the clock training and you still couldn't work it out???
You are a disgrace.
your hypocracy [for a scab] is nothing short of breathtaking. "self interest", I think I'm going to puke.
Don't EVER forget that those longhaul crew who smile at you at work know exactly what you are and what you WILLINGLY trained to do.
We know the differences between your lot and the Kiwis.
Are you so deaf and stupid not to hear the whispers and see the knowing looks.
Oh, thats right.
You ARE that stupid.
Secret passwords, blacked out windows in buses, back of the clock training and you still couldn't work it out???
You are a disgrace.
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Hey Jetlagger,
You are pretty aggressive on here. Why dont you chill out.
God help a pax that upset you - you'd probably let them have it! Time to take the next package and move on to a less stressful job buddy. Tea and coffee, chicken or the beef makes you too highly strung!
You are pretty aggressive on here. Why dont you chill out.
God help a pax that upset you - you'd probably let them have it! Time to take the next package and move on to a less stressful job buddy. Tea and coffee, chicken or the beef makes you too highly strung!
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Right, that's enough. He's had the courage to change his view and say so publicly: Now let's move on..
jettlager - take a warm shower and a cold beer and cool down.
Midnight-63 find something tha isn't abusive to post, or lose the ability to post anything.
jettlager - take a warm shower and a cold beer and cool down.
Midnight-63 find something tha isn't abusive to post, or lose the ability to post anything.
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dont be shy
guardian1 since you are so well informed (sitting in the faaa office) you can send me the reason for the dispensation in a pm. some of us dont reside in the big smoke. i think i am not out of step given the general view in the back galley. however as always we accept whatever the vote will be. will i be doing the shuttle, of course not.
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QCC2
QCC2...
the reasons for the JFK dispensation have been publicly discussed by FAAA newsletter at least twice. Furthermore meetings have been publicised well in advance so people could ensure that they are home for 1 of the meetings.
Furthermore, the FAAA will shortly be putting out ANOTHER newsletter on the JFK issue, followed by a recommendation to your home address with a postal ballot form.
Furthermore, i have been in contact with the FAAA today. I spoke to MM,,,, he awaits your call to give you a personal briefing. Take him up on the offer .
the reasons for the JFK dispensation have been publicly discussed by FAAA newsletter at least twice. Furthermore meetings have been publicised well in advance so people could ensure that they are home for 1 of the meetings.
Furthermore, the FAAA will shortly be putting out ANOTHER newsletter on the JFK issue, followed by a recommendation to your home address with a postal ballot form.
Furthermore, i have been in contact with the FAAA today. I spoke to MM,,,, he awaits your call to give you a personal briefing. Take him up on the offer .