EBA & IR Issues in Australia (Not for those easily offended!)
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on the money
red tbar spot on. still waiting for pro and guardian to supply their relevant regs and so called dispensations. comment from guardian " We are an international carrier operating in US airspace.... regulations pertaining to domestic US limitations are of no significance or relevance to what we are discussing". It further demonstrates you do not even grasp the issue. The point is it is not illegal for International carriers to operate in the US in the manner provided for by the dispensation.
what dispensation? certainly not from the us government. since you seem to be the expert on the subject can you supply the relevant documents .
bad adventure you represent the new kind of crew who cares only about yourself today and not think about tomorrow. remember the past AND current faaa negotiated our conditions and pay. now they tell us we are too expensive. weird isnt it?
what dispensation? certainly not from the us government. since you seem to be the expert on the subject can you supply the relevant documents .
bad adventure you represent the new kind of crew who cares only about yourself today and not think about tomorrow. remember the past AND current faaa negotiated our conditions and pay. now they tell us we are too expensive. weird isnt it?
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Tow-truck
Sorry about the way I typed that post,that first line was the response from Guardian1 to you about him not giving up.By the way he wrote that ,I am assuming that it is one of the 3 current leaders of the faaa,probably SR or maybe MM.
Sorry about the way I typed that post,that first line was the response from Guardian1 to you about him not giving up.By the way he wrote that ,I am assuming that it is one of the 3 current leaders of the faaa,probably SR or maybe MM.
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Not surprised
It's a shame about the mindless adolescence and total immaturity of some individuals in this forum.
It's a shame that one is not able to share thoughts on a particular issue without the vicious backlash from others who are obviously not able to discuss things in a rational manner.
Obnoxious name calling only dispels any doubt about your intellectual state.
My post merely asked people to think about the QF rationale behind the “cost of accommodation” stance.
And thank God I do not have to lead people who aren’t prepared to look at and discuss things from many angles.
I leave this forum now as it is a circular waste of time and the issue is a "dead horse".
It's a shame that one is not able to share thoughts on a particular issue without the vicious backlash from others who are obviously not able to discuss things in a rational manner.
Obnoxious name calling only dispels any doubt about your intellectual state.
My post merely asked people to think about the QF rationale behind the “cost of accommodation” stance.
And thank God I do not have to lead people who aren’t prepared to look at and discuss things from many angles.
I leave this forum now as it is a circular waste of time and the issue is a "dead horse".
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Guardian1 Try Again - This time try and avoid criticism of the moderators. The previous post was deleted for the reason that is clearly stated on the offending post. If you do not care for the way this forum is moderated, go elsewhere. If you are unable to understand either of these moderator posts made this morning, then the moderators will be pleased to assist you in the process of posting elsewhere. 
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Seems to methis Forum has become a link to the FAAA website. Clearly, at least 2 of the posters are FAAA exec's ( SR and mmmm?? )
Anyway ., I've already stated where I stand on the VOTE.
I had the pleasure of spending time along the "Boulevard of Broken dreams" ( aka QCC/1 )... this week. 'Heard some interesting updates from my "source". ie. CSS review will be announced shortly. CSS only on 747 AC.
A330 and 767 will go to a 2nd senior scenario a la S/H.
You have got to be kidding me. Obviously the dickwits ( read Visitors ) think that on a FULL A-330 its cool to have a CSM ( hands on in J/C ) and just let Y/C manage itself-what absolute crap. Imagine when the A-330 goes to PVG with no CSS- anarchy!!!
Anyway , my "source" also tells me that the long awaited "package "is only weeks away ( tied into the CSS review ). The stampede on QCC/1 will be like the bull run at Pamploma .
One last snippet from my "source" ( and this gives me a warm glow) the Short Haul EBA will be a "blood bath". Our domestic brothers & sisters ( read the mongrels who took our flying) are going to be given a right royal shafting over IPD's, hours worked and hours paid and their outrageous use of sick leave.
The "Ace Card " in all this ( for QF bean .. as in human being- counters )is that Virgin, Eastern and Qantas Link EBA's are all due at the same time
thus, ...are keeping Playford and his Merry Men/women very very busy. Me thinks if Virgin settle first, Qantas will say "Oh gee, we'll need to match their unit labour costs-take a 20% pay cut-S/H, oh and while you're at it here's some more long haul flying"( read SYD-DRW(tech stop)-BOM on the A-330)
I'll be happy to just sit back, crack a VB and watch it unravel.
You know what they say-"what comes around.................."
Roll on
Anyway ., I've already stated where I stand on the VOTE.
I had the pleasure of spending time along the "Boulevard of Broken dreams" ( aka QCC/1 )... this week. 'Heard some interesting updates from my "source". ie. CSS review will be announced shortly. CSS only on 747 AC.
A330 and 767 will go to a 2nd senior scenario a la S/H.
You have got to be kidding me. Obviously the dickwits ( read Visitors ) think that on a FULL A-330 its cool to have a CSM ( hands on in J/C ) and just let Y/C manage itself-what absolute crap. Imagine when the A-330 goes to PVG with no CSS- anarchy!!!
Anyway , my "source" also tells me that the long awaited "package "is only weeks away ( tied into the CSS review ). The stampede on QCC/1 will be like the bull run at Pamploma .
One last snippet from my "source" ( and this gives me a warm glow) the Short Haul EBA will be a "blood bath". Our domestic brothers & sisters ( read the mongrels who took our flying) are going to be given a right royal shafting over IPD's, hours worked and hours paid and their outrageous use of sick leave.
The "Ace Card " in all this ( for QF bean .. as in human being- counters )is that Virgin, Eastern and Qantas Link EBA's are all due at the same time
thus, ...are keeping Playford and his Merry Men/women very very busy. Me thinks if Virgin settle first, Qantas will say "Oh gee, we'll need to match their unit labour costs-take a 20% pay cut-S/H, oh and while you're at it here's some more long haul flying"( read SYD-DRW(tech stop)-BOM on the A-330)
I'll be happy to just sit back, crack a VB and watch it unravel.
You know what they say-"what comes around.................."
Roll on
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Red T Bar...
you state amongst several false assertions "Why is the faaa so interested in siding with the company, in fact why after all the fire and brimstone of last year have they rolled over and capitulated?
When any letters are received from the faaa (then only once in a blue moon), they seem to have been written by the company themselves."
There is no "capitulation"....... if there is why don't you identify these and i'll gladly go through these mythical capitulations that you refer to.
You also invent things in relation to the supposed lack of union information. Check the FAAA (international ) website.... there are 82 newsletters written so far this year! The greatest level of communication of any union in the Qantas Group and also way beyond any union that i am aware of.
I t would be helpful if what you said actually was even slightly connected with reality. But maybe that is too much to expect.
Perhaps if you chose to actually read some of the material issued to you by the FAAA you would actually understand some of the complex issues that you refer to, rather than having to resort to posting ill informed criticism.
There is also a tendency by some in hear to behave as "bush" lawyers. Perhaps before some of you make references to "establishing precedents" you actually need to first understand the EBA that you work under and also overcome this tendency to think that the world can be stopped and that the "horrible" things that QF is doing to us , can be somehow magically disappear if we simply refuse to deal with issues that arise.
The continual job security of Long Haul is dependent upon our crew having an understanding of the issues confronting us and then having the sophistication and nous to confront crucial issues in a practical manner.
No amount of carping, gossip, speculation and refusal to face reality will cut the mustard. To the FAAA leadership i say, you guys are doing a very good job.
Do not be swayed by ill informed ignorance of a very small minority that are totally blinkered in their outlook and whose advice would lead to disaster for Long Haul crew.
you state amongst several false assertions "Why is the faaa so interested in siding with the company, in fact why after all the fire and brimstone of last year have they rolled over and capitulated?
When any letters are received from the faaa (then only once in a blue moon), they seem to have been written by the company themselves."
There is no "capitulation"....... if there is why don't you identify these and i'll gladly go through these mythical capitulations that you refer to.
You also invent things in relation to the supposed lack of union information. Check the FAAA (international ) website.... there are 82 newsletters written so far this year! The greatest level of communication of any union in the Qantas Group and also way beyond any union that i am aware of.
I t would be helpful if what you said actually was even slightly connected with reality. But maybe that is too much to expect.
Perhaps if you chose to actually read some of the material issued to you by the FAAA you would actually understand some of the complex issues that you refer to, rather than having to resort to posting ill informed criticism.
There is also a tendency by some in hear to behave as "bush" lawyers. Perhaps before some of you make references to "establishing precedents" you actually need to first understand the EBA that you work under and also overcome this tendency to think that the world can be stopped and that the "horrible" things that QF is doing to us , can be somehow magically disappear if we simply refuse to deal with issues that arise.
The continual job security of Long Haul is dependent upon our crew having an understanding of the issues confronting us and then having the sophistication and nous to confront crucial issues in a practical manner.
No amount of carping, gossip, speculation and refusal to face reality will cut the mustard. To the FAAA leadership i say, you guys are doing a very good job.
Do not be swayed by ill informed ignorance of a very small minority that are totally blinkered in their outlook and whose advice would lead to disaster for Long Haul crew.
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United
Dear Guardian, Warp, QCC, TT, etc
I would like to make the comment that this (PPRuNe) is a discussion forum.
This is not an EBA negotiation meeting or a union/company bash up.
While opposing views are bound to incite adverse reactions, the views stated here are those of individuals who wish to seek the varying angles that may emerge from controversial topics.
Please accept that others may have views and opinions that differ from your own and accept that PPRuNe offers an opportunity to air those views with colleagues and others in the aviation industry.
To disregard opposing viewpoints “out of hand” by malicious labelling and name calling only serves to cement opposing views and in fact perpetuates a circular “argument” that has no peaceful conclusion.
I am sure qf (lowercase for low life scum) monitor this forum and ejaculate with glee at the way we fight amongst ourselves.
Let’s tidy this mess up and discuss rationally the issues that face us now and in the not very distant future. Have a blast at the issue but “play the ball – not the person (politically correct?).
The new enemy is the current qf management (lowercase for slime).
And they have their sights of the end of Long Haul Cabin Crew (uppercase for dignity) just on the horizon.
I would like to make the comment that this (PPRuNe) is a discussion forum.
This is not an EBA negotiation meeting or a union/company bash up.
While opposing views are bound to incite adverse reactions, the views stated here are those of individuals who wish to seek the varying angles that may emerge from controversial topics.
Please accept that others may have views and opinions that differ from your own and accept that PPRuNe offers an opportunity to air those views with colleagues and others in the aviation industry.
To disregard opposing viewpoints “out of hand” by malicious labelling and name calling only serves to cement opposing views and in fact perpetuates a circular “argument” that has no peaceful conclusion.
I am sure qf (lowercase for low life scum) monitor this forum and ejaculate with glee at the way we fight amongst ourselves.
Let’s tidy this mess up and discuss rationally the issues that face us now and in the not very distant future. Have a blast at the issue but “play the ball – not the person (politically correct?).
The new enemy is the current qf management (lowercase for slime).
And they have their sights of the end of Long Haul Cabin Crew (uppercase for dignity) just on the horizon.
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Wed Webbing Woop
What did you guys at long haul do in the past because its certainly come round to slap you in the face over the past couple of years.
No CSS on the 767 and 330 Big deal, whats the problem will you have to actually work? (No offence to the hard working LH Crew).
As for the EBA, who cares there are so many MAM casuals now that we have no bargaining power, as we traded that power off for flexiable work arrangement and the like.
Bring on the 20 hour duty limitations, any time zone, and no divisional agreement on say an A340 and 777. Short Haul are the more profitable business unit within the cabin crew division. As for sick leave, well if we have high sick leave you guys wouldnt be far behind us, anyway as OCCR said isnt that what reserves and in our case casuals are for?
Before you all start attacking me its just a wind up post. Just to clarify a point though no one owns the flying if wasnt short haul doing it Qantas would have found another way to do it like it or not. At least with short haul doing it you still have access to the flying through the divisional transfer agreement. If Qantas set-up a mid haul division or the like no one would have the flying. But I suppose that would make you happy.
What did you guys at long haul do in the past because its certainly come round to slap you in the face over the past couple of years.
No CSS on the 767 and 330 Big deal, whats the problem will you have to actually work? (No offence to the hard working LH Crew).
As for the EBA, who cares there are so many MAM casuals now that we have no bargaining power, as we traded that power off for flexiable work arrangement and the like.
Bring on the 20 hour duty limitations, any time zone, and no divisional agreement on say an A340 and 777. Short Haul are the more profitable business unit within the cabin crew division. As for sick leave, well if we have high sick leave you guys wouldnt be far behind us, anyway as OCCR said isnt that what reserves and in our case casuals are for?
Before you all start attacking me its just a wind up post. Just to clarify a point though no one owns the flying if wasnt short haul doing it Qantas would have found another way to do it like it or not. At least with short haul doing it you still have access to the flying through the divisional transfer agreement. If Qantas set-up a mid haul division or the like no one would have the flying. But I suppose that would make you happy.
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Typical
Gees GalleyHag,
Just 40 minutes after my post with a call to"play the ball".
Yep, no crew "owns" the flying but qf do.
So let's look after our respective backyards.....
Just 40 minutes after my post with a call to"play the ball".
Yep, no crew "owns" the flying but qf do.
So let's look after our respective backyards.....
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Don't see what the big deal is re this.....
We don't have a second senior or CSS at AO and we have more seats on our 767's. Sure the 330's have a few more. I have never come across a cabin management issue on board that has required more than one person to be in charge of the entire cabin and crew. I believe we even have an extra crew member on our 767's compared to QF?
Smart business move on QF's part if you ask me.
Just wanted to show the other side to the coin.
Have a great day,
RaverFlaver
A330 and 767 will go to a 2nd senior scenario a la S/H.
Smart business move on QF's part if you ask me.
Just wanted to show the other side to the coin.
Have a great day,
RaverFlaver
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once again raver you have proven to me that you have absolutely no idea what we do in QANTAS.
Most airlines have 2IC's, its mainlt the low cost carriers that do not carry them....... blah blah,, why am I bothering trying to explain this to you.
Anyway go lay some tablecloths!
Most airlines have 2IC's, its mainlt the low cost carriers that do not carry them....... blah blah,, why am I bothering trying to explain this to you.
Anyway go lay some tablecloths!
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i rarely post on here guys simply because if you have a moderate view you are seen to be weak, and if you have a hardline view you are a union official for god's sake!!
i have just come back from a trip and from what i see, most crew are very concerned about job security most of all. after all the fuss about the los angeles hotel they are now worried about moving out despite the fact that the union and Qantas was harrasssed about it 24/7 when we moved there.
Its scares the **** out of me to be honest that crew are all over the place on every issue. Punch ups in crew rooms etc the tension is terrible.
I heard a rumour this morning when i got home from a trip that XMAS drinks are going to be cancelled and that Kylie is going to cancel crew drink purchases on the aircraft because of the brawl in LA and JAPAN.
Also i have heard from a very reliable sourse that the London crew will not getting their seniority when they come back (IF THEY COME BACK). The person that told me that little tudbit said that the Union was opposed to them getting seniority and infact its not in the EBA like management promised????????
I am goinng to ring the Union today to confirm this stuff. Just a comment on the "debate" in here....no one is talking about it up the track at all guys!!
It seems tragically we are the only ones in a lather about anything at all.
I am not going to comment on whether the FAAA is doing a good job or not coz to be honest i just dont know. I guess the proof will be how long we still have jobs for.
As far as conditions are concerned though, the last EBA didnt see any trade offs as far as i can see. Bid System still there, allowances still paid in cash etc..
I know that there is a lot of fuss in here about the NYC sector, but from my perspective its only one sector out of all the others that comply with the EBA .
I am going to suggest to the FAAA that if the dispensation goes ahead that they should get guarantees about the SFO/YVR flying that it must go to long haul crew and not overseas based crew. Who knows with 20yrs plus i might even get one if the slots are all for aussie based crew???
i have just come back from a trip and from what i see, most crew are very concerned about job security most of all. after all the fuss about the los angeles hotel they are now worried about moving out despite the fact that the union and Qantas was harrasssed about it 24/7 when we moved there.
Its scares the **** out of me to be honest that crew are all over the place on every issue. Punch ups in crew rooms etc the tension is terrible.
I heard a rumour this morning when i got home from a trip that XMAS drinks are going to be cancelled and that Kylie is going to cancel crew drink purchases on the aircraft because of the brawl in LA and JAPAN.
Also i have heard from a very reliable sourse that the London crew will not getting their seniority when they come back (IF THEY COME BACK). The person that told me that little tudbit said that the Union was opposed to them getting seniority and infact its not in the EBA like management promised????????
I am goinng to ring the Union today to confirm this stuff. Just a comment on the "debate" in here....no one is talking about it up the track at all guys!!
It seems tragically we are the only ones in a lather about anything at all.
I am not going to comment on whether the FAAA is doing a good job or not coz to be honest i just dont know. I guess the proof will be how long we still have jobs for.
As far as conditions are concerned though, the last EBA didnt see any trade offs as far as i can see. Bid System still there, allowances still paid in cash etc..
I know that there is a lot of fuss in here about the NYC sector, but from my perspective its only one sector out of all the others that comply with the EBA .
I am going to suggest to the FAAA that if the dispensation goes ahead that they should get guarantees about the SFO/YVR flying that it must go to long haul crew and not overseas based crew. Who knows with 20yrs plus i might even get one if the slots are all for aussie based crew???
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you're quite right Pegasus, most crew in QF, 99% -have no idea that this forum exists.
I have only ever met 2 other people that knew about it! but that doesn't matter as its interesting to get other QANTAS cabin crew's opinion.
Anyway Galley hag I was surprised to see such harsh comments coming from you! but I totally understand how that previous post upset you, ignore it like I did!
crew should not be happy at the demise of one group, or have a "warm glow" at the reduction in someone's wages, or to see someone like that Raver be so happy to see the deletion of a position on board is a sad state of affairs!
You know what the work is like in LH galley hag!
If the s/haul eba is devastating to you guys it can only spell doom for us, the way I look at it the better your conditions the better mine will be!.
I have only ever met 2 other people that knew about it! but that doesn't matter as its interesting to get other QANTAS cabin crew's opinion.
Anyway Galley hag I was surprised to see such harsh comments coming from you! but I totally understand how that previous post upset you, ignore it like I did!
crew should not be happy at the demise of one group, or have a "warm glow" at the reduction in someone's wages, or to see someone like that Raver be so happy to see the deletion of a position on board is a sad state of affairs!
You know what the work is like in LH galley hag!
If the s/haul eba is devastating to you guys it can only spell doom for us, the way I look at it the better your conditions the better mine will be!.
Last edited by tow-truck; 30th Aug 2005 at 22:53.
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more info
raverflavor your crew to pax ratio on a AO 767 is 1:34 and on the so called premium airline 747 it is 1:52, airbus it is 1:44.5, 767 1:54. just a little extra work. work it out in percentage and it is big. i agree with tow truck i want to see shorthaul get a good eba because down the track it will impact on us. as most times i sit here with my best mate who works sh and we discuss this forum and some of the "interesting threads". just a littel info we had a difference of 6 grand in income(group cerficiate). he gets to sleep almost every night (unless he chooses an overnight)in his bed. i get whatever roster gets thrown at me (similar senority). let alone talk about our kids holidays, birthdays,etc. i joined lh as a career, forget it now.
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qcc2
I agree 100%
dont bother explaining things to Raver, he seems to get some kind of satisfaction in seeing other crew get a bad deal.
If you remember during the searches he was very supportive of the company searching crew in hotel lobbies.
He/she though is only interested in how many dots and what colour uniform they are getting.(AO posts)
Sad isnt it!
I agree 100%
dont bother explaining things to Raver, he seems to get some kind of satisfaction in seeing other crew get a bad deal.
If you remember during the searches he was very supportive of the company searching crew in hotel lobbies.
He/she though is only interested in how many dots and what colour uniform they are getting.(AO posts)
Sad isnt it!
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Thanks for clarifying that qcc2 - though isn't it a casa requirement that the ratio be 1:36?
Tow-truck, when ever someone posts something that is of a difference to you and your narrow mind, that is outside of your tunnel vision, you always seem to reply with a constructive comback......thanks for your reply.
I'm still smiling from seeing others get a bad deal, the company searches and I'm still counting the dots....
Grow up and have a great day!
RaverFlaver
Tow-truck, when ever someone posts something that is of a difference to you and your narrow mind, that is outside of your tunnel vision, you always seem to reply with a constructive comback......thanks for your reply.
I'm still smiling from seeing others get a bad deal, the company searches and I'm still counting the dots....
Grow up and have a great day!
RaverFlaver
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Raver
You obviously forget what you write, do you want me to cut and paste your posts! as that is what you usually do!
Very nasty that last post, is it the thought of wearing orange getting to you!
Seen the AO post?
Hmm, suppose you will be able to mix and match!
You obviously forget what you write, do you want me to cut and paste your posts! as that is what you usually do!
Very nasty that last post, is it the thought of wearing orange getting to you!
Seen the AO post?
Hmm, suppose you will be able to mix and match!
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this is good
just had an email from a pilot mate of mine. in the new pilots eba to be voted on shortly the poor second officers have to survive on A$100000.00 per annum (first year) to 135000.- (fourth year) and get A$15000.- relocation money in singapore ( local tax rate of 25%). i think a jetstar or virgin captain is on around 140000.-
as we know pilots still run qf.
as we know pilots still run qf.