Eastern Australia Airlines
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sydney Oz
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Good luck QFRegional. if you get the posie at least we'll have someone with a sense of humour as the T & S supervisor. sorely needed...
just to clarify, I don't moan about not getting ipds. I love my days off too much to trade them for cash. my reasons are selfish, simply put, it's no picnic working with overworked people. irritible, short tempered, impatient and generally not much fun. I'm not saying you are one of them since I don't know who you are (even though I have my suspicions), so don't take it personally.
just to clarify, I don't moan about not getting ipds. I love my days off too much to trade them for cash. my reasons are selfish, simply put, it's no picnic working with overworked people. irritible, short tempered, impatient and generally not much fun. I'm not saying you are one of them since I don't know who you are (even though I have my suspicions), so don't take it personally.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Australia
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qfregional, you said
"The people that I refer to were the new southern recruits in ground school for the DASH. I dont see the BIG difference, unless of course you want to tell me something about the DASH that I dont know."
obviously you have a different approach when it comes to employment. when i looked for a job as a hostie, i looked at the airline i'd be working for not the aircraft type i'd be on. most people i know are the same. the southern recruits you refer to signed a contract of employment with southern. wether they were there for a week or 5 years they were sothern employees so they all deserved the same treatment.
a truce between you and eafa? wow! in the same spirit i apologize for the nasty tone of my message too.
"The people that I refer to were the new southern recruits in ground school for the DASH. I dont see the BIG difference, unless of course you want to tell me something about the DASH that I dont know."
obviously you have a different approach when it comes to employment. when i looked for a job as a hostie, i looked at the airline i'd be working for not the aircraft type i'd be on. most people i know are the same. the southern recruits you refer to signed a contract of employment with southern. wether they were there for a week or 5 years they were sothern employees so they all deserved the same treatment.
a truce between you and eafa? wow! in the same spirit i apologize for the nasty tone of my message too.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sydney
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Oh thats what I love about eastern crew one day at each other throats the next loving up to each other over a coffee and smoke.
The EBA meeting is this saturday the 15th and QFRegional since you are not working IPD's this month I hope to see you there if you have the day off, although I have no idea who you are - yet.
Seriously though it is important that as many crew as possible attend this meeting and get factual information direct from the horses mouth, furthermore we have to show support for both the FAAA and ourselves towards the company. We all know what the pay rise will be 3% of course but what will we have to give up for this and dont think for a minute the company will just give us this lavish pay rise, just look whats happening to our pilots.
Word is we cant mention the scary word "progression" in front the of the FAAA. However after hearing what one of our senior executives had to say on the issue (2nd hand of course from a crew member that attended the meeting) a lot of crew are angry and looking for a straight answers from the FAAA.
Considering the company introduced progression into our last EBA to get it voted up I think it only fair we discuss this issue.
What are other crews thoughts? Or should we just to stick to the facts 3% x 3, give up our 7 hour after an overnight rule and zero increase in salary for operating the 400 just like the 300.
The EBA meeting is this saturday the 15th and QFRegional since you are not working IPD's this month I hope to see you there if you have the day off, although I have no idea who you are - yet.
Seriously though it is important that as many crew as possible attend this meeting and get factual information direct from the horses mouth, furthermore we have to show support for both the FAAA and ourselves towards the company. We all know what the pay rise will be 3% of course but what will we have to give up for this and dont think for a minute the company will just give us this lavish pay rise, just look whats happening to our pilots.
Word is we cant mention the scary word "progression" in front the of the FAAA. However after hearing what one of our senior executives had to say on the issue (2nd hand of course from a crew member that attended the meeting) a lot of crew are angry and looking for a straight answers from the FAAA.
Considering the company introduced progression into our last EBA to get it voted up I think it only fair we discuss this issue.
What are other crews thoughts? Or should we just to stick to the facts 3% x 3, give up our 7 hour after an overnight rule and zero increase in salary for operating the 400 just like the 300.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Sydney
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True you must fully support the FAAA and yourselves but discuss any topic you like even if they dont want to talk about it. The FAAA is a members based organisation so it is yours to discuss with officials anyway you like.
If it was me the first thing on the Agenda would be progression. The current agreement states and I quote:
"Subject to permanent recruitment being required in the short haul division of Qantas. Regional Flight Attendants will be eligible to progress having regard to the following"
Progression from Regional Airlines to the Short Haul Division of Qantas will occur twice a year in (6) month cycles
1 July to 31 December
1 January to 30 June
The number of flight attendants able to progress from the individual regional airline in any (6) month cycle is as follows:
10 Eastern
6 Sunstate
So my first question to the FAAA is why were the regionals not taken into Perth on 1 July with the MAM crew. There were only 32 positions available you take off the 16 owed to Eastern and whatever number for Jet* and the balance go to MAM.
Unlike previous agreements there is no minimum requirement to trigger the progression agreement.
Now to be told that other clauses in the agreement such as deferment to the next 6 month period due to operational reasons (with FAAA approval) does not come into effect as NO permanent positions are available is a joke.
The agreement is black and white QF and the FAAA stuffed up and the FAAA are looking after MAM crew without ensuring that Qantas met its arrangements under the agreement for regional crew.
Now to be told progression will only occur when permanent positions become available is nothing short of disgusting. Lets look at the history of when permanent was available in Mar 2003 and now July 2005. Qantas need to find room for these crew if they like it or not or what is the point of the agreement. And in future any permanent employment must first be given to the regionals as per their agreement.
So if I was an eastern f/a I would be saying we are not starting any negotiations until the issue of progression is resolved jut like how the company witheld the increased numbers until your last EBA was resolved. Dont let it get to a point where your EBA is about to be voted on but they withold start dates for progression until it is voted up. Dont think it wont happen as the past will show you it already has.
Sorry for the rant.
If it was me the first thing on the Agenda would be progression. The current agreement states and I quote:
"Subject to permanent recruitment being required in the short haul division of Qantas. Regional Flight Attendants will be eligible to progress having regard to the following"
Progression from Regional Airlines to the Short Haul Division of Qantas will occur twice a year in (6) month cycles
1 July to 31 December
1 January to 30 June
The number of flight attendants able to progress from the individual regional airline in any (6) month cycle is as follows:
10 Eastern
6 Sunstate
So my first question to the FAAA is why were the regionals not taken into Perth on 1 July with the MAM crew. There were only 32 positions available you take off the 16 owed to Eastern and whatever number for Jet* and the balance go to MAM.
Unlike previous agreements there is no minimum requirement to trigger the progression agreement.
Now to be told that other clauses in the agreement such as deferment to the next 6 month period due to operational reasons (with FAAA approval) does not come into effect as NO permanent positions are available is a joke.
The agreement is black and white QF and the FAAA stuffed up and the FAAA are looking after MAM crew without ensuring that Qantas met its arrangements under the agreement for regional crew.
Now to be told progression will only occur when permanent positions become available is nothing short of disgusting. Lets look at the history of when permanent was available in Mar 2003 and now July 2005. Qantas need to find room for these crew if they like it or not or what is the point of the agreement. And in future any permanent employment must first be given to the regionals as per their agreement.
So if I was an eastern f/a I would be saying we are not starting any negotiations until the issue of progression is resolved jut like how the company witheld the increased numbers until your last EBA was resolved. Dont let it get to a point where your EBA is about to be voted on but they withold start dates for progression until it is voted up. Dont think it wont happen as the past will show you it already has.
Sorry for the rant.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sydney
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Faaa-why have them
If the Faaa doesn't want to talk about progression tomorrow them ask them why we pay them $16/fn.As it is a MEMBERS assoc we are entitled to discuss what our greatest concerns are..re qantas changing the interpretation of the prog aggreement.I know we all get paid didly squat but why are so many f/as working their ipd's??? We should all have a week or so where we ALL SAY NO to any xtra flying & see what the coy will do ..I know DRAFT everyone that has just done a 6 or 8 sector day.Good ridance of PG as she got the job "for the girl" from her drinking Buddy that was our previous "boss" -with NIL people skills.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sydney Oz
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"Word is we cant mention the scary word "progression" in front the of the FAAA." ??? whose word? as galleyhag and blondeontour said, we are the association, so we can raise any issue we want!
blondeontour, it's like you read my mind about PG. in addition to her other problems, the woman has no sense of humour, and I think that someone with that shortcoming has no business working in a customer service role! let's hope she can fit in a medical procedure between jobs so she can have the pole removed from her you know what so her new colleagues don't suffer as much as we did...
blondeontour, it's like you read my mind about PG. in addition to her other problems, the woman has no sense of humour, and I think that someone with that shortcoming has no business working in a customer service role! let's hope she can fit in a medical procedure between jobs so she can have the pole removed from her you know what so her new colleagues don't suffer as much as we did...
Last edited by m00ving_on; 14th Oct 2005 at 04:24.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sydney
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I have heard that Career Progression is VERY much now on the Agenda for discussion tomorrow regardless if our reps like it or not and the FAAA what to discuss this issue with crew.
Sadly though the future of Regional Progression is very grim and there is not a dam thing we can do about it.
Sadly though the future of Regional Progression is very grim and there is not a dam thing we can do about it.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Well tomorrow is the big day..Why is the faaa letting ng get away with RE interpreting our eba(that has expired) to the way SHE sees fit & undermines our workplace roles as f/as?I know pilots are at the point of Dobbing in f/as that work well beyond the hours (even those ones that should be saying NO to crewing on days off,this then shows the company that it needs more crew)to casa,as well as fatigue of f/as..how do they know that the f/a is capable of doing thier primary role when they are knackered???Even part timers are not immune to ng interpretations re hours worked in the 28 days even if leave has been taken they still have to work the max hrs in the roster..the amount of drafting,300 flying as a solo f/a,being pressured to work on days off,being to scared to answer the phone at home or mobile with private number..this is not a happy place to be workwise but the joy of flying makes up for a tiny bit of it.Some of the things that is happening would never happen at s/h, l/h as they would down tools.Get the faaa working FOR US & not the company (ng) that is what our subs are paid for..I'm sure they would miss a bit of money on their bottom line if members resigned.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Hi blondeontour,
You said, "... as well as fatigue of f/as..how do they know that the f/a is capable of doing thier primary role when they are knackered???"
To give you an example of how seriously management take fatigue risk management, a colleague of mine sent in a letter to the OHS Committee on the subject. The reply from management (which he showed me), said that since the duties (eg 8 sector days) are within the terms of the EBA, they are not deemed arduous!
I'm sure everyone will agree that a piece of paper doesn't determine whether someone is tired as a result of a long duty. Fatigue is determined by how one feels.
Just an example of how management trivialise and belittle our concerns.
You said, "... as well as fatigue of f/as..how do they know that the f/a is capable of doing thier primary role when they are knackered???"
To give you an example of how seriously management take fatigue risk management, a colleague of mine sent in a letter to the OHS Committee on the subject. The reply from management (which he showed me), said that since the duties (eg 8 sector days) are within the terms of the EBA, they are not deemed arduous!
I'm sure everyone will agree that a piece of paper doesn't determine whether someone is tired as a result of a long duty. Fatigue is determined by how one feels.
Just an example of how management trivialise and belittle our concerns.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
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Please continue your discussions on this new thread OZ - IR issues, EBA's & T's & C's (All Australian Airlines)
