What BA cabin crew think of pilots
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What BA cabin crew think of pilots
I have been sent an email by a concerned collegue who is married to a stewardess and has sent me some actual quotes from a thread on the BASSA website.
It would seem that a pilot has upset someone on a flight and the following are actual quotes from the forum.
This is not a joke.
and this
BTSM
It would seem that a pilot has upset someone on a flight and the following are actual quotes from the forum.
This is not a joke.
WHAT a tw*t! Did he not realise he was gonna get some serious MackieDee style service from the crew on the way home..? with the additional secret recipe of 11 herbs & assorted bodily functions, i'd suggest???
oooooooh yes ........ if he wants cappucino he would have had the best one ever..........specially made...........but I cant let you all in on my special blend........it all in the beans of course!!!!
We would show him a good time (marines style)!
Makes me so angry that usually the most unintelligent person on the aircraft has all the power.
Lets face it-ANYONE can become a pilot. You need NO QUALIFICATIONS.
Does that p**ck not realise that if it wasnt for us he would be out of a job
Yeah but it makes me mad. Some snotty t**t thinking hes above everyone cause he wears four silver stripes. He is a nothing.
Tell him hes a taxi driver to really get his goat up and that tthe best landings are done by the auto pilot anyway! Just a jobs worth throwing his weight around.
I like the sound of the marines treatment guys and i know, united , that could be your leaving present to that 4 striped di*k brain.!
BTSM
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Half of BALPA have read this with enormous fascination. Out have come the famous myths of aviation and serious threats. I think it should be a Police matter and also company disciplinary in view of the desperately serious nature of these threats- they are bragging they actually try and poison the pilots of the aeroplanes they are flying on!
These people are not wanted in any civilised company. If lily livered BA can't take action to screw this firmly down, then it will go further I'm certain.
What a disgrace! This is not hysterical building each other up by a few individuals, it's a sad reflection on a once proud company.
These people are not wanted in any civilised company. If lily livered BA can't take action to screw this firmly down, then it will go further I'm certain.
What a disgrace! This is not hysterical building each other up by a few individuals, it's a sad reflection on a once proud company.
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I suppose this'll go down like a fart in a spacesuit, but what the hell, let's live a little.
Firstly, talk is cheap. On an internet forum, anybody can (and does) say anything, regardless of their actual intent.
Secondly, although not exclusively so, I think this could be a largely BA problem. Based on circumstancial evidence, there appears to be a culture problem among some of the cabin crew there with regard to Flight Crew. Yes, I know we can all come up with examples closer to home, but the point is that it seems to be more prevalent in BA. In my experience, the chain of command is more clearly stated in some other airlines, and there is a greater degree of respect for the rank, if not the individual. I suppose I'll get flamed senseless for saying that, but nonetheless, the perception exists, and there apears to be a BA specific problem: I'd be pleased to be corrected on this.
Finally, these kind of divisive comments get published from time to time and the really cool thing is that you can read into it whatever you want, to support your existing beliefs. Paranoid pilots can find evidence to prove that CSD's are salami slicing their power and authority away: Stroppy Crew will find evidence of Captains' megalomania. The only way out is to rely on your own personal experience - mine is that most pilots and cabin crew are very pleasant people: You get the odd ****, but that's life!
Ok, "Brace- Brace for impact"
Firstly, talk is cheap. On an internet forum, anybody can (and does) say anything, regardless of their actual intent.
Secondly, although not exclusively so, I think this could be a largely BA problem. Based on circumstancial evidence, there appears to be a culture problem among some of the cabin crew there with regard to Flight Crew. Yes, I know we can all come up with examples closer to home, but the point is that it seems to be more prevalent in BA. In my experience, the chain of command is more clearly stated in some other airlines, and there is a greater degree of respect for the rank, if not the individual. I suppose I'll get flamed senseless for saying that, but nonetheless, the perception exists, and there apears to be a BA specific problem: I'd be pleased to be corrected on this.
Finally, these kind of divisive comments get published from time to time and the really cool thing is that you can read into it whatever you want, to support your existing beliefs. Paranoid pilots can find evidence to prove that CSD's are salami slicing their power and authority away: Stroppy Crew will find evidence of Captains' megalomania. The only way out is to rely on your own personal experience - mine is that most pilots and cabin crew are very pleasant people: You get the odd ****, but that's life!
Ok, "Brace- Brace for impact"
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Well, Im a BA pilot, have been for a few years now and I find the cabin crew really nice...there is the usual gossip and backstabbing goes on Im sure, but its the same in every "office" or work environment.
So I wouldn't go painting this as an exclusive BA "problem". Im sure it happens in every airline.
Cabin crew sometime feel like they are being treated poorly, having to deal with annoying passengers, working their butts off all flight and everytime they go to the flightdeck all they see is us sitting their with the auto's on. They then get their backs up about it and take out their frustration by bitching. There is definately an envy element to it as well.
Pompous up themselves pilots, do not make the situation any better however!
So I wouldn't go painting this as an exclusive BA "problem". Im sure it happens in every airline.
Cabin crew sometime feel like they are being treated poorly, having to deal with annoying passengers, working their butts off all flight and everytime they go to the flightdeck all they see is us sitting their with the auto's on. They then get their backs up about it and take out their frustration by bitching. There is definately an envy element to it as well.
Pompous up themselves pilots, do not make the situation any better however!
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Purely out of idle curiosity, what did the hapless pilot do to "upset" (ahem!) a stew? Be interesting to know what prompted this torrent of rage from the guys and gals so used to dealing patiently with the Great Unwashed in all their irritating glory.
Mind you, there's a few BA chaps here who'd make saint wish for a cyanide shake.
Mind you, there's a few BA chaps here who'd make saint wish for a cyanide shake.
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Who cares? It's not like its a great surprise that there's a core of die-hard pilot haters amongst BAs cabin crew, I'm sure most pilots could name at least one. They're still in a minority and if you really are paranoid just watch them on the CCTV when they're making your tea - and be sure they know. Most of the crew are great, I treat them with courtesy and almost invariably receive the same from them. Sure, every now and then you get the sour faced trouble makers whispering to each other but when then that happens I just sloooooowwwwwwwllllyyy wind the speed up until their CAT payment disappears. Makes it so much more tolerable.
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Sadly an innocent and perhaps agitated exchange of views in a private forum expressed in a cynical and somewhat infantile manner have been interepreted as a serious and widespread damaging culture within BA.
In my experience the majority of people working for BA are morally and professionally of an higher standard than the average person in the street and despite a few exceptions I still feel proud and honoured to be part of this (still!!) .GREAT COMPANY
As for behind_the_second_midland I don t really understand your worring about a few quotes taken out of contest from a few individuals, do you really think the few people involved really meant to do what they wrote and do they actually represent the view and professional beheviour of some 14000 hard working colleagues???
I believe with your inaccurate publishing of a few quotes taken out of contest YOU are causing more damage than the people involved in the original sad and immature exchange of "words".
In my experience the majority of people working for BA are morally and professionally of an higher standard than the average person in the street and despite a few exceptions I still feel proud and honoured to be part of this (still!!) .GREAT COMPANY
As for behind_the_second_midland I don t really understand your worring about a few quotes taken out of contest from a few individuals, do you really think the few people involved really meant to do what they wrote and do they actually represent the view and professional beheviour of some 14000 hard working colleagues???
I believe with your inaccurate publishing of a few quotes taken out of contest YOU are causing more damage than the people involved in the original sad and immature exchange of "words".
Last edited by nicecsd; 18th Nov 2004 at 23:54.
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I would never poison my own flight deck..(even though eye drops are rumoured to just give you the "runs".). It is totally out of order. At the same time there are some very pompous condescending pilots out there, and it is true that we on the cabin side of that armoured door are generally better educated, and yes autopilot landings are better...BUT
I have been on a number of aircraft when its all got a little bit scary and the boys up the front did a fantastic job...(but obviously we never told them that).
I have been on a number of aircraft when its all got a little bit scary and the boys up the front did a fantastic job...(but obviously we never told them that).
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I read this with great interest.....however there is one (very obvious) thing that strikes me about the initial comments extracted from the BASSA thread .... they are complete b******t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Come on all you intellegent and clued in people! I was crew for 6 years at BA, and although you read things like this, I truly believe that such things would never happen in reality. I met thousands of crew members during my time at BA (99% of which were very professional and possessed a positive attitude towards all colleagues) and I don't think anybody is that stupid! Forums are there for a reason: to vent your feelings and anguish to others about issues that make you angry/concern you/bother you or whatever other descriptive you would wish to use. This is all about a (sadly) rather negative attitude limited to a small number of people on both sides of the door who cannot express themselves in such a manner at work so do it on a forum instead. Big deal.
Carnage Matey: I am sure your comments were only tongue-in-cheek, but if you really do wind up the speed to the disadvantage of the crew then you are just a bit unprofessional don't ya think? Don't add fuel to any party's fire by saying such things if I was you
Come on all you intellegent and clued in people! I was crew for 6 years at BA, and although you read things like this, I truly believe that such things would never happen in reality. I met thousands of crew members during my time at BA (99% of which were very professional and possessed a positive attitude towards all colleagues) and I don't think anybody is that stupid! Forums are there for a reason: to vent your feelings and anguish to others about issues that make you angry/concern you/bother you or whatever other descriptive you would wish to use. This is all about a (sadly) rather negative attitude limited to a small number of people on both sides of the door who cannot express themselves in such a manner at work so do it on a forum instead. Big deal.
Carnage Matey: I am sure your comments were only tongue-in-cheek, but if you really do wind up the speed to the disadvantage of the crew then you are just a bit unprofessional don't ya think? Don't add fuel to any party's fire by saying such things if I was you
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CC guys and gals are exactly the same in most companies, but it would appear that big airways CC have their noses well above ground effect....a few anyway.
Simple solution...IF they step out of line on the job, sack 'em for cause.
Been done before at companies where i've worked...and it solved the 'problem' quite nicely.
CC...easy come, easy go. Dime a dozen.
Now, having said this, a few front office (pilot) types can be a real pain, especially with a snooty attitude.
My advice to these guys is...mind the store up front, and let the cabin captain (and his/her crew) do the job for which they were hired.
If pilots, especially pig-headed Captains, would treat 'em with respect, as the Captains themselves would like to be treated, problems would be few and far between.
Suspect the big airways Captains who have a slight problem with CC bring it all on themselves.
And, in these cases....serves 'em right.
Simple solution...IF they step out of line on the job, sack 'em for cause.
Been done before at companies where i've worked...and it solved the 'problem' quite nicely.
CC...easy come, easy go. Dime a dozen.
Now, having said this, a few front office (pilot) types can be a real pain, especially with a snooty attitude.
My advice to these guys is...mind the store up front, and let the cabin captain (and his/her crew) do the job for which they were hired.
If pilots, especially pig-headed Captains, would treat 'em with respect, as the Captains themselves would like to be treated, problems would be few and far between.
Suspect the big airways Captains who have a slight problem with CC bring it all on themselves.
And, in these cases....serves 'em right.
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411A said..
Exactly the kind of mindless attitude I was just talking about.
Pilots are a dime a dozen too buddy.....
You then go on to contradict yourself in your second and third paragraphs? If I was you I would be mildly concerned about your decision making skills....!
CC...easy come, easy go. Dime a dozen
Pilots are a dime a dozen too buddy.....
You then go on to contradict yourself in your second and third paragraphs? If I was you I would be mildly concerned about your decision making skills....!
As the song says: "No one promised you a rose garden." so anywhere in life you'll have to work with someone who p1sses you off just a little bit and probably doesn't even mean to (just as you don't mean to upset them 
)
Still, doesn't mean you have to like the @\/^+$ !
I'd a great time and thanks to all the great RAF, BA, GF, KT, EAF, CX, CC & FC, I flew with
- please, God, can I do it all again? Yea, OK, I thought not
)Still, doesn't mean you have to like the @\/^+$ !
I'd a great time and thanks to all the great RAF, BA, GF, KT, EAF, CX, CC & FC, I flew with
- please, God, can I do it all again? Yea, OK, I thought not
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Sadly, Finals19, there are malcontents in every profession.
I cannot remember having really any problem with CC, as I told the CC supervisor the usual (flight time, altitide, enroute wx etc) and then added....'if you have any problem, use the interphone and let be know, and I will try and solve it'.
Simple as that.
You would really be surprised at the co-operation received.
Works like a charm.
I cannot remember having really any problem with CC, as I told the CC supervisor the usual (flight time, altitide, enroute wx etc) and then added....'if you have any problem, use the interphone and let be know, and I will try and solve it'.
Simple as that.
You would really be surprised at the co-operation received.
Works like a charm.
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Funny this,
Im worldwide crew for BA and must admit iv never had a problem and havent really seen any problems regarding cabin crew/flight deck crew relations with the exception of the occasional letch making sleazy comments to crew...and that goes both ways in all fairness!!!
I have heard of a few bust ups alright but these are very few and far between. The only time iv witnessed heated "debates" between fd and cc has been whenever union issues come up in discussion but at the end of the day we all realise we have different unions so therefore we have different agreements and theres really no point comparing the two!!!
As for the various stories involving poisoning and stuff...weve all seen the documentary "the real mile high" and all those sort of programs/cheesy sky one series and we all know the story of the eye drops...lots of talk, never seen it done, doubt it ever happens!!! As for tea/coffee bags being wiped around the toilet bowl...well, those coffee bags are great for removing any stomach churning odours from the loos!!!!
Im worldwide crew for BA and must admit iv never had a problem and havent really seen any problems regarding cabin crew/flight deck crew relations with the exception of the occasional letch making sleazy comments to crew...and that goes both ways in all fairness!!!
I have heard of a few bust ups alright but these are very few and far between. The only time iv witnessed heated "debates" between fd and cc has been whenever union issues come up in discussion but at the end of the day we all realise we have different unions so therefore we have different agreements and theres really no point comparing the two!!!
As for the various stories involving poisoning and stuff...weve all seen the documentary "the real mile high" and all those sort of programs/cheesy sky one series and we all know the story of the eye drops...lots of talk, never seen it done, doubt it ever happens!!! As for tea/coffee bags being wiped around the toilet bowl...well, those coffee bags are great for removing any stomach churning odours from the loos!!!!
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BA is different in respect to CRM through the cockpit door. If you were to ask any steward/stewardess "What is CRM?", they'd likely respond with, "It's my duty to tell the pilots they are wrong if I feel safety is at sake".
They are unaware that although the above is true, the other 95% of teamskills remain within the confines of the cockpit. There is a large minority who believe that because you've ignored their call for 30 secs (Both pilots engaged in more important matters), you're playing a sad little game of one upmanship.
When a pilot forgets the saying "Do not upset those who serve your food" and he/she chooses to remind them of their duties, on most occasions you'll see the atmosphere turn sour quite quickly.
Where does the problem lie?
IMHO, if ALL CSD's were top professionals (Most of them are), then these situations wouldn't occur. Sadly but rarely, the CSD's priorities are
1) Rest
2) Rest
3) The Service
4) errrr safety
When you come across these types in BA your wings are clipped. If I was to pass on to an 'appropriate' manager the poor performance of such a CSD, it would be passed immiediately to BASSA, who in turn would vigourously defend their renegade and my name would be plastered all over their website coupled with the quotes shown at the start of the thread.
A few public hangings would sort this sad mess out. Unfortunately, Pilots are excluded from the jury and are not allowed as witnesses. Such a shame because we get the best evidence.
They are unaware that although the above is true, the other 95% of teamskills remain within the confines of the cockpit. There is a large minority who believe that because you've ignored their call for 30 secs (Both pilots engaged in more important matters), you're playing a sad little game of one upmanship.
When a pilot forgets the saying "Do not upset those who serve your food" and he/she chooses to remind them of their duties, on most occasions you'll see the atmosphere turn sour quite quickly.
Where does the problem lie?
IMHO, if ALL CSD's were top professionals (Most of them are), then these situations wouldn't occur. Sadly but rarely, the CSD's priorities are
1) Rest
2) Rest
3) The Service
4) errrr safety
When you come across these types in BA your wings are clipped. If I was to pass on to an 'appropriate' manager the poor performance of such a CSD, it would be passed immiediately to BASSA, who in turn would vigourously defend their renegade and my name would be plastered all over their website coupled with the quotes shown at the start of the thread.
A few public hangings would sort this sad mess out. Unfortunately, Pilots are excluded from the jury and are not allowed as witnesses. Such a shame because we get the best evidence.
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Some years ago when I worked for BA as an engineer I did a few times come across a CC attitude that treated just about all other staff with contempt , these people seemed to think that they were some sort of avation master race and it was clever to have a rude and superor attitude to all around them.
It's a pitty that as in all walks of life a few people with attitude are the ones who get noticed and the majority get tarred with the same brush.
In general the BA cabin crew that I met in my 19 years with BA were helpfull and pleasant to work with.
It's a pitty that as in all walks of life a few people with attitude are the ones who get noticed and the majority get tarred with the same brush.
In general the BA cabin crew that I met in my 19 years with BA were helpfull and pleasant to work with.
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Sadly we no longer live in a World that can brush off threats whether they’re idle or not. Whilst it’s difficult to imagine that any member of the crew could entertain poisoning the captain with safety or impunity, there exists within this (very large) company, some who despise pilots.
The reason that such tangible attitudes are present in BA is that the departmental head hates pilots with a vengeance. New entrant cabin crew are conditioned on their induction courses to keep a safe distance from pilots, and not to be bossed about by them. Some enter the airline believing that the SCCM is in command of the aircraft.
Like so many malignant problems in BA, this is deeply cultural. Pilot status is crumbling away by the day as the battle for supremacy continues with all the bile and vitriol of the fox hunting debate.
The problem is not helped by the inaction of pilot management, amongst whom one senior figure famously holds his charges with disdain and contempt. I imagine that this unfortunate ranting will be met with indifference and inaction. Even if a course of action is decided upon, I would not place my faith in pilot management to have the backbone to take on the department involved.
I’ll take on the opposition anyday. It’s my management I can’t beat!
The reason that such tangible attitudes are present in BA is that the departmental head hates pilots with a vengeance. New entrant cabin crew are conditioned on their induction courses to keep a safe distance from pilots, and not to be bossed about by them. Some enter the airline believing that the SCCM is in command of the aircraft.
Like so many malignant problems in BA, this is deeply cultural. Pilot status is crumbling away by the day as the battle for supremacy continues with all the bile and vitriol of the fox hunting debate.
The problem is not helped by the inaction of pilot management, amongst whom one senior figure famously holds his charges with disdain and contempt. I imagine that this unfortunate ranting will be met with indifference and inaction. Even if a course of action is decided upon, I would not place my faith in pilot management to have the backbone to take on the department involved.
I’ll take on the opposition anyday. It’s my management I can’t beat!
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Some enter the airline believing that the SCCM is in command of the aircraft.
Ask a cc member downroute who is in charge and about 90% will say the CSD.
Ask who is second in charge and 99.9% will say the CSD.
Its a culture thing. Many BA cabin crew, particularly the older, ones seem to think they are in some sort of A list profession driving around in convertibles and residing in Windsor or "Hove actually Darling ".
Whilst the majority of crew and CSD's I fly with are excellent (actually old Pursers are the worst) there is a significant element of "Flight Deck" haters egged on usually by bitter Queens throwing their pink teddies around or twisted midle aged women with nothing better to talk about.
Bring on the new ones I say and before BASSA (the root of most evil) can get hold of them get them in CC89.
BASSA does not run BA and the quicker BA realise this the better it will be.
Did people on here know that BASSA fine members who may strau outside their agreements in extreme circumstances so as to get 350 passengers to where they have paid to go?
True.
Now I'm the first to recognise that we have flight crew in BA who are pompous, unapproachable,arrogant and downright rude. We have to put up with them as well. However they pale into insignificance when compared to some of the complex and neurotic characters in the cabin.
NN