QF Shorthaul Treachery
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QF Shorthaul Treachery
Over the past 3 weeks the QF Longhaul FAAA has been in negotiations with Qantas.Everything appeared to be progressing smoothly and an amicable EBA was imminent.Suddenly Grant and Hassell were removed from the prcocess and industrial legal representaion replaced them.This change in protocol has been bought about shorthaul treachery.A deal has been done where all Airbus flying is to be done by shorthaul.Eventually this will include all trans tasman,Hong Kong,some japanese flying and potentially Rome.I fail to understand why Watkins and Playford would backdoor their longhaul colleagues at such a crucial time.Longhaul ports are under threat from overseas bases and now all flying now being undertaken by longhaul on 767's(and longhaul crew)will be replaced by Airbus and shorthaul crew.The ramifications for both long and shorthaul crew are enormous.Already planned flying for BP 234 has been impacted with a surplus of longhaul being created due to all Airbus flying being transferred to shorthaul.
I am absolutely appalled by this enormous betrayal!
It is one thing to be attacked by Qantas but quite something else to be railroaded by your own colleagues.
While only a small number of long haul crew have applied for the
LHR base (45)The balance has been made up of shorthaul crew predominantly from Melbourne.I am a great believer in Kharma.A day of reckoning for shorthaul is hopefully close at hand.
I am absolutely appalled by this enormous betrayal!
It is one thing to be attacked by Qantas but quite something else to be railroaded by your own colleagues.
While only a small number of long haul crew have applied for the
LHR base (45)The balance has been made up of shorthaul crew predominantly from Melbourne.I am a great believer in Kharma.A day of reckoning for shorthaul is hopefully close at hand.
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Maybe one should ask why FAAA LH would be prepared to "Backdoor S/H" in their desperate grab for an "amicable EBA" outcome. From my observations, S/H always come through the front door for all to see. Perhaps L/H representatives should consider this approach rather than loitering around the back door, inevitably with the wrong keys.
If you truly believe in kharma, perhaps you should be worried."
If you truly believe in kharma, perhaps you should be worried."
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uz32,
shorthaul are making a grab for the regional international flying.
That represents to Longhaul the only family friendly flying we have.
You know the type, surely??
The sort that allows us a break from perpetual jetlag and an ability to maintain relationships and family commitments given it affords us less time away from home.
Regional flying is generally the most sought after at longhaul for these very good reasons.
Please advise us how Longhaul have gone about undermining the conditions of our beloved shorthaul collegues, ie Karma.
Tell us all as well about the little deal done by shorthaul during your last EBA to deprive those transfering to Shorthaul from Longhaul " band payments."
Do yourself a favour.
Look up the definitions of despicable , treachery and karma in the Oxford dicionary.
L2P - "lets screw the roo"
shorthaul are making a grab for the regional international flying.
That represents to Longhaul the only family friendly flying we have.
You know the type, surely??
The sort that allows us a break from perpetual jetlag and an ability to maintain relationships and family commitments given it affords us less time away from home.
Regional flying is generally the most sought after at longhaul for these very good reasons.
Please advise us how Longhaul have gone about undermining the conditions of our beloved shorthaul collegues, ie Karma.
Tell us all as well about the little deal done by shorthaul during your last EBA to deprive those transfering to Shorthaul from Longhaul " band payments."
Do yourself a favour.
Look up the definitions of despicable , treachery and karma in the Oxford dicionary.
L2P - "lets screw the roo"
Last edited by Left2primary; 3rd Sep 2004 at 07:18.
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Myopic Twits
To the 53% of longhaul crew who voted YES to the last EBA:I hope you imbeciles are satisfied.For God Sake don't start whinging now,you nitwits signed off on this!!
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Argusmoon,
Whilst I agree with your sentiments re those who voted yes, I dont recall the Longhaul EBA indicating that shorthaul would move to take ALL regional international 767/A330 flying, do you?
L2P - "lets screw the roo"
BTW. I'm one of those "qualified" to whinge about these matters.
Whilst I agree with your sentiments re those who voted yes, I dont recall the Longhaul EBA indicating that shorthaul would move to take ALL regional international 767/A330 flying, do you?
L2P - "lets screw the roo"
BTW. I'm one of those "qualified" to whinge about these matters.
Last edited by Left2primary; 3rd Sep 2004 at 08:24.
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Just a note
Fair enough you're upset, but its another thing when you walk through the terminal and L/H crew make quite obvious comments degrading S/H full well knowing that you're there!!! Guys, its happening, its one thing to be upset about it all, but don't start making it personal with any S/H crew that you see and more importantly, don't blanket all of us in S/H with the same opinion!!! Some of us are just here to do our job (whatever that may be), enjoy it and then go home!!!!!!!!! I do understand your anger though!
Fair enough you're upset, but its another thing when you walk through the terminal and L/H crew make quite obvious comments degrading S/H full well knowing that you're there!!! Guys, its happening, its one thing to be upset about it all, but don't start making it personal with any S/H crew that you see and more importantly, don't blanket all of us in S/H with the same opinion!!! Some of us are just here to do our job (whatever that may be), enjoy it and then go home!!!!!!!!! I do understand your anger though!
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ozcabincrew,
to whom should longhaul crew direct their anger given we are being screwed once again by our shorthaul collegues?
The toothfairy perhaps???
L2P
to whom should longhaul crew direct their anger given we are being screwed once again by our shorthaul collegues?
The toothfairy perhaps???
L2P
Last edited by Left2primary; 3rd Sep 2004 at 10:48.
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well, i can tell you now, that if any L/H crew wants to have a go at me about pinching their flying, i will let rip because I couldn't give a toss if we had it or not!!!!! I understand that L/H crew are annoyed/angry or whatever, but i'm not about to sit back and be insulted directly or indirectly.
I am sure that i would feel the same if i was in your shoes but i think getting personal with any S/H crew is going a bit far. Yet everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess.
I am sure that i would feel the same if i was in your shoes but i think getting personal with any S/H crew is going a bit far. Yet everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess.
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Employee Engagement?/Enragement?
Qantas has been very adept at pinpointing grey areas in both shorthaul and longhaul awards where they can make cost savings and remove inefficienies.Unfortunately the people doing the negotiating on behalf of cabin crew just weren't up to the task .Mijatov and Smedley were the only ones aware of the traps.
Shorthaul has always been the family/lifestyle option.That is now coming to an end.The last EBA they signed off on means that they will be doing more international/mediumhaul flying.In effect they have been handed the poison chalice.From what I understand most shorthaulers dont want this.
On the other hand it is now more efficient for longhaul to fly jumbos up and down the east coast.It is here that some of the family flying can be retrieved.When I talk about efficiencies I relate to the company perspective.
Borghetti has just wasted an enormous amount of money on a survey regarding Employee Engagement.I dont think any cabin crew member will give a toss about Qantas after this piece of Industrial thuggery.
The EP department is currently training upwards of 1,000 groundhogs to act as strikebreakers.
It will all go pearshape over Christmas and the following holiday period.My sympathy lies with the travelling public.Dixon and his corporate thugs will use this to put spin on their case
Shorthaul has always been the family/lifestyle option.That is now coming to an end.The last EBA they signed off on means that they will be doing more international/mediumhaul flying.In effect they have been handed the poison chalice.From what I understand most shorthaulers dont want this.
On the other hand it is now more efficient for longhaul to fly jumbos up and down the east coast.It is here that some of the family flying can be retrieved.When I talk about efficiencies I relate to the company perspective.
Borghetti has just wasted an enormous amount of money on a survey regarding Employee Engagement.I dont think any cabin crew member will give a toss about Qantas after this piece of Industrial thuggery.
The EP department is currently training upwards of 1,000 groundhogs to act as strikebreakers.
It will all go pearshape over Christmas and the following holiday period.My sympathy lies with the travelling public.Dixon and his corporate thugs will use this to put spin on their case
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OZcabincrew whilst I respect your position, I believe that you are employed by MAM so don't really have any say where the flying comes from or goes to. If other crew are making comments to you or about you then it should be water off a ducks back - as those comments do not apply to you. If you were to "let rip" then let's just say that ALL MAM crew would end up bearing the wrath of those in L/H. My advice is to stay out of it.
It is quite clear that each division of the FAAA is busy looking after their own members. Seems irrelevant to them that they may be "screwing" their other divisional colleagues; since their colleagues are not members of the same FAAA.
Totally ironic and totally disgraceful IMHO.
Safe Flying
SG
It is quite clear that each division of the FAAA is busy looking after their own members. Seems irrelevant to them that they may be "screwing" their other divisional colleagues; since their colleagues are not members of the same FAAA.
Totally ironic and totally disgraceful IMHO.
Safe Flying
SG
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Here is the divide...
look out because the conquer is on the way !
Okay so u guys have been shafted, you have to pick urself up and instead of slagging s/h u need to talk to them, slagging them off is only going to make them think "well
you" instead of sympathising. Instead of slagging let them know why ur pissed in a calm and semi-friendly manner, it will be much more effective.
I totally understand how betrayed you guys feel, but this is exactly what mgt want. YOUR PLAYING RIGHT INTO THEIR HANDS - BE CAREFUL. Keep your enemies close and allies even closer in this case.
ps. has the FAAAdom/reg pushed for the regionalinternational flying or has QF pushed it on them? Do the both divisions not talk to one another or something - if not part of the blame has to lie in both camps. If LH knew SH wanted more flying this could have been worked out before going to QF.
Fingers crossed you guys can work it out before the black widow strikes - from the sounds of things it cant be long.
GOODLUCK
look out because the conquer is on the way !
Okay so u guys have been shafted, you have to pick urself up and instead of slagging s/h u need to talk to them, slagging them off is only going to make them think "well
you" instead of sympathising. Instead of slagging let them know why ur pissed in a calm and semi-friendly manner, it will be much more effective.I totally understand how betrayed you guys feel, but this is exactly what mgt want. YOUR PLAYING RIGHT INTO THEIR HANDS - BE CAREFUL. Keep your enemies close and allies even closer in this case.
ps. has the FAAAdom/reg pushed for the regionalinternational flying or has QF pushed it on them? Do the both divisions not talk to one another or something - if not part of the blame has to lie in both camps. If LH knew SH wanted more flying this could have been worked out before going to QF.
Fingers crossed you guys can work it out before the black widow strikes - from the sounds of things it cant be long.
GOODLUCK
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Just for my information Oze
How long have you been flying Ozcabincrew ?
This is not a put down but I want to know your perspective on this whole deal.
I don't comment much anymore about many subjects on this forum, but wish you all to know I no longer recruit or are involved in any extra non flying activities for Qantas.
Many of you know I'am an ex CSM S/H, now L/H crew member & have been involved in many ground jobs for Qantas over the last 5 years & can offically say that the company only see's you as a number and couldn't give a dam about anybody but profits & management bonus schemes.
The lies that have been told to myself by senior executives & managers over the last 12 months have been disheartning and enough for me to resign from recruiting, training & development roles.
The company is great but it's managers are underhanded & lack major skills in airline operations.
This is not a put down but I want to know your perspective on this whole deal.
I don't comment much anymore about many subjects on this forum, but wish you all to know I no longer recruit or are involved in any extra non flying activities for Qantas.
Many of you know I'am an ex CSM S/H, now L/H crew member & have been involved in many ground jobs for Qantas over the last 5 years & can offically say that the company only see's you as a number and couldn't give a dam about anybody but profits & management bonus schemes.
The lies that have been told to myself by senior executives & managers over the last 12 months have been disheartning and enough for me to resign from recruiting, training & development roles.
The company is great but it's managers are underhanded & lack major skills in airline operations.
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Immediately Qantas have offered us long haul crew as much leave as we want over the next few months! Amazing that now they have transferred a huge amount of our flying to the short haul crew they are now over crewed in the long haul division.
I can guarantee that very shortly Qantas will offer redundancies to long haul crew, of course they will call it voluntary redundancy. What they are doing is gradually eroding the flying and conditions for long haul crew to force us into taking pay cuts so we get paid the same as short haul crew.
Its time everyone started contacting the company and asking questions:
[email protected]
[email protected]
I am also going to be calling the FAAA tomorrow and asking what they are going to do re: further attacks on our employment stability.
I believe this latest underhand trick by QF managers breaches our EBA 'Majority of long haul flying will be done by long haul crew'. I say we should strike ASAP.
I can guarantee that very shortly Qantas will offer redundancies to long haul crew, of course they will call it voluntary redundancy. What they are doing is gradually eroding the flying and conditions for long haul crew to force us into taking pay cuts so we get paid the same as short haul crew.
Its time everyone started contacting the company and asking questions:
[email protected]
[email protected]
I am also going to be calling the FAAA tomorrow and asking what they are going to do re: further attacks on our employment stability.
I believe this latest underhand trick by QF managers breaches our EBA 'Majority of long haul flying will be done by long haul crew'. I say we should strike ASAP.
Last edited by leemo; 6th Sep 2004 at 03:12.
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Firstly can I just say that no-one likes what is happening to Long Haul at the moment, especially short haul crew because who knows what is next, there is so much uncertainty at the moment.
I think you will find just about all short haul crew have respect for Long Haul and I am hoping vice versa. I have never heard anything like ozcabincrew mentions. Sure you will always get the odd crew member in both divisions with attitude but really who cares.
It wasnt that long ago that at short haul our flying was disappearing and fast firstly to Impulse then the re-branded Jetstar brand so we have been in your position but there was nothing that could be done about it so our union being the FAAA Domestic/Regional Division had to secure some sort of future for short haul cabin crew and I dont believe initially this was at the expense of Long Haul.
As you know there is an agreement in place whereby anything over a certain percentage of domestic flying undertaken by Long Haul is compensated to short haul through increased international flying and in the past that was Auckland etc. After Ansett, 747's were flying all over the place on domestic services and through the agreement short haul were to be compensated. BUT when additional 767 Auckland flying was assigned to short haul you would have thought we were trying to rip your hearts out (not crew personally) but the long haul FAAA. This was a huge drama and even action through the industrial court was discussed (not sure if it got that far though). My point being, this is an example of the greed shown by the Long Haul FAAA at the time.
Times are changing and changing fast and Long Haul need to protect their flying but at the end of day Qantas wants to save cost so a solution needs to be found otherwise Qantas will devise the solution such as the London base.
I have to agree with Ascent the two unions need to speak and work with each other not the other way round, otherwise the unions themselves are playing right into the hands of Qantas management.
When we were advised that we would be operating some Airbus services to Asia we were also advised that this would compliment existing 767 services BUT Qantas changed their mind about where they felt the fleet was best utilised therefore returning all 767's to domestic operations. Now that all Airbus services being transferred to short haul, well no one asked me if thats what I wanted so I think it is unfair to blame crew. I never received a notice or call from the union asking me if thats what I wanted and either did anyone else. But we dont have that many airbus anyway will that take the place of all the 767 international flying to Asia?
The rumours going around earlier this year that Qantas wanted to establish a mid haul division (yet another division!!) for the Airbus flying but this didnt go ahead but my point being it could have, so either way Qantas will and does gets what it wants regardless.
My hope is that the unions get together and work together.
P.S. I am happy to see Peanut Pusher make a post, we certainly miss your advice and the wealth of knowledge about QF and the role of cabin crew.
I think you will find just about all short haul crew have respect for Long Haul and I am hoping vice versa. I have never heard anything like ozcabincrew mentions. Sure you will always get the odd crew member in both divisions with attitude but really who cares.
It wasnt that long ago that at short haul our flying was disappearing and fast firstly to Impulse then the re-branded Jetstar brand so we have been in your position but there was nothing that could be done about it so our union being the FAAA Domestic/Regional Division had to secure some sort of future for short haul cabin crew and I dont believe initially this was at the expense of Long Haul.
As you know there is an agreement in place whereby anything over a certain percentage of domestic flying undertaken by Long Haul is compensated to short haul through increased international flying and in the past that was Auckland etc. After Ansett, 747's were flying all over the place on domestic services and through the agreement short haul were to be compensated. BUT when additional 767 Auckland flying was assigned to short haul you would have thought we were trying to rip your hearts out (not crew personally) but the long haul FAAA. This was a huge drama and even action through the industrial court was discussed (not sure if it got that far though). My point being, this is an example of the greed shown by the Long Haul FAAA at the time.
Times are changing and changing fast and Long Haul need to protect their flying but at the end of day Qantas wants to save cost so a solution needs to be found otherwise Qantas will devise the solution such as the London base.
I have to agree with Ascent the two unions need to speak and work with each other not the other way round, otherwise the unions themselves are playing right into the hands of Qantas management.
When we were advised that we would be operating some Airbus services to Asia we were also advised that this would compliment existing 767 services BUT Qantas changed their mind about where they felt the fleet was best utilised therefore returning all 767's to domestic operations. Now that all Airbus services being transferred to short haul, well no one asked me if thats what I wanted so I think it is unfair to blame crew. I never received a notice or call from the union asking me if thats what I wanted and either did anyone else. But we dont have that many airbus anyway will that take the place of all the 767 international flying to Asia?
The rumours going around earlier this year that Qantas wanted to establish a mid haul division (yet another division!!) for the Airbus flying but this didnt go ahead but my point being it could have, so either way Qantas will and does gets what it wants regardless.
My hope is that the unions get together and work together.
P.S. I am happy to see Peanut Pusher make a post, we certainly miss your advice and the wealth of knowledge about QF and the role of cabin crew.
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Quote ' never received a notice or call from the union asking me if thats what I wanted and either did anyone else'
Actually you did, last year ALL short haul crew received a copy of the draft EBA. If short haul crew had bothered to read this and THINK about what it meant you would have seen this was going to happen.
I was in short haul then and voted NO. I could forsee what Qantas was trying to do.
The short haul union have their own agenda, Daryl and Jo-Anne couldn't run a bake off let alone the short haul FAAA. The long haul FAAA have tried to have face to face discussions with them. The short haul union didn't want to participate.
And finally Qantas will not get what it wants this time. Having thousands of crew on strike for a week or more will cost them millions. They don't have enough crew trained up to do all the flying.
Quote ' never received a notice or call from the union asking me if thats what I wanted and either did anyone else'
Actually you did, last year ALL short haul crew received a copy of the draft EBA. If short haul crew had bothered to read this and THINK about what it meant you would have seen this was going to happen.
I was in short haul then and voted NO. I could forsee what Qantas was trying to do.
The short haul union have their own agenda, Daryl and Jo-Anne couldn't run a bake off let alone the short haul FAAA. The long haul FAAA have tried to have face to face discussions with them. The short haul union didn't want to participate.
And finally Qantas will not get what it wants this time. Having thousands of crew on strike for a week or more will cost them millions. They don't have enough crew trained up to do all the flying.
Last edited by leemo; 6th Sep 2004 at 08:10.
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uz32 actually yes, part of my reason to vote no was because I knew I was transfering to long haul.
Short haul tasting the cake and likeing it? Well the cake must be off because they all seem to be calling in sick on international trips!
Short haul FAAA are hopeless - try calling Daryl or Jo-Anne with a concern over your roster or duty. They will grant dispensation to the company faster than the interest accumulating in Dixons bank account.
Short haul tasting the cake and likeing it? Well the cake must be off because they all seem to be calling in sick on international trips!
Short haul FAAA are hopeless - try calling Daryl or Jo-Anne with a concern over your roster or duty. They will grant dispensation to the company faster than the interest accumulating in Dixons bank account.
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Paying back domestic flying?:
When Ansett went under and thousands of passengers were stranded all over Australia, it became clear that Qantas SH did not have the numbers of crew, or aircraft to be able to cope with the amount of extra traffic. Due to this extraordinary change in flying, SH basically asked LH if they would use their crew and aircraft to help cope with the extra flying. LH crew, flew on their days off, and their holidays to help assist at this terrible time. Jumbos did shuttles up and down the coasts to rescue stranded passengers. Everyone, SH & LH, did what ever they could to help out.
At no time was any indication given that this "extra" flying would need to be "repaid".
Move forward a year: Jetconnect aka Qantas New Zealand, is given flying that 'belonged" to QF SH. As payment, Qantas management hand over AKL trips to SH- taking them from LH. The SH union calls this 'catchup footy"- implying it is to repay SH for the flying they 'lost' during the collapse of Ansett, instead of a payback for flying lost to Jetconnect.
Perhaps in overall terms, the loss of a few AKL trips wasn't a huge amount to LH, however, for MEL based crew, this was 25% of their flying. Pretty significant a loss don't you think? Maybe worth a trip to the commission, maybe not - depends on your point of view.
Now, we have another aircraft that both divisions are endorsed to fly. There is nothing in either EBA to say who should fly this particular aircraft where. Unfortunately for all of us, from the company's point of view- the longhaul award appears cheaper to run shorthaul - and vice versa. (Although when this was brought up in the Commission, Qantas insisted that cost had no bearing, and in fact the two divisions cost the roughly the same to run on the AKL for example.)
Some joined Qantas as a longhaul flight attendants and have NO desire to fly shorthaul. Others joined as shorthaul flight attendants and have NO desire to fly longhaul. I just hope that greed from both sides doesn't mean that all our choices disappear.
When Ansett went under and thousands of passengers were stranded all over Australia, it became clear that Qantas SH did not have the numbers of crew, or aircraft to be able to cope with the amount of extra traffic. Due to this extraordinary change in flying, SH basically asked LH if they would use their crew and aircraft to help cope with the extra flying. LH crew, flew on their days off, and their holidays to help assist at this terrible time. Jumbos did shuttles up and down the coasts to rescue stranded passengers. Everyone, SH & LH, did what ever they could to help out.
At no time was any indication given that this "extra" flying would need to be "repaid".
Move forward a year: Jetconnect aka Qantas New Zealand, is given flying that 'belonged" to QF SH. As payment, Qantas management hand over AKL trips to SH- taking them from LH. The SH union calls this 'catchup footy"- implying it is to repay SH for the flying they 'lost' during the collapse of Ansett, instead of a payback for flying lost to Jetconnect.
Perhaps in overall terms, the loss of a few AKL trips wasn't a huge amount to LH, however, for MEL based crew, this was 25% of their flying. Pretty significant a loss don't you think? Maybe worth a trip to the commission, maybe not - depends on your point of view.
Now, we have another aircraft that both divisions are endorsed to fly. There is nothing in either EBA to say who should fly this particular aircraft where. Unfortunately for all of us, from the company's point of view- the longhaul award appears cheaper to run shorthaul - and vice versa. (Although when this was brought up in the Commission, Qantas insisted that cost had no bearing, and in fact the two divisions cost the roughly the same to run on the AKL for example.)
Some joined Qantas as a longhaul flight attendants and have NO desire to fly shorthaul. Others joined as shorthaul flight attendants and have NO desire to fly longhaul. I just hope that greed from both sides doesn't mean that all our choices disappear.