cabin crew to flight deck?
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cabin crew to flight deck?
Hi,
I'm sorry if this has been asked before, i'm sure it has but my search isn't working, how likely is it that having worked as cabin crew you can then move up front to the flight deck once you have your ratings? I'm currently doing my atpls and was thinking of going distance and getting a job as cabin crew to get me intot he aviation industry. I've heard that it is possible, but is it likely? Also does anybody know of anybody who are looking for zero experienced cabin crew to start just now?
thanx
I'm sorry if this has been asked before, i'm sure it has but my search isn't working, how likely is it that having worked as cabin crew you can then move up front to the flight deck once you have your ratings? I'm currently doing my atpls and was thinking of going distance and getting a job as cabin crew to get me intot he aviation industry. I've heard that it is possible, but is it likely? Also does anybody know of anybody who are looking for zero experienced cabin crew to start just now?
thanx
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Hi Tiram
Yes, it's perfectly possible to fly as Cabin Crew and then go for the pilot thing. I don't honestly think it'll increase your chances of becoming a pilot though (or decrease the chance either). That depends on how committed you are, and your aptitude to fly. In that sense, anyone with the commitment and aptitude could become a pilot (subject to availability!)
As for the experience, it'll definitely give you loads. You get to speak with the guys & gals up-front, ask loads of questions, see loads of nice views, speak with the despatchers, look at loadsheets etc. etc. You might even get to stay overseas in hotels, although that depends on who you fly with. You'll be popular with Cabin Crew when you start flying as a pilot, cause you'll know exactly what their job is like, and thus treat them with respect, especially if they're having a bad day!
The only thing I would say is that you should think a bit about the rosters you will be flying, and how tired you might be feeling after a flight; at my airline, we fly 3 earlies (anything from 0400 to 0700) then 3 lates (anything after 1200). It's up to you to decide whether you'll be up to some serious studying after flying, as sometimes you can come home feeling knackered. On the other hand, you do get lots of time off, and this time can be used to hit the books.
If it's any consolation, I'm currently studying the theoretical part of my PPL course and flying as Cabin Crew in my spare time!
There are loads of airlines recruiting; easyJet, Virgin, BA, BMI, Bmed. Take your pick.
cheers
Yes, it's perfectly possible to fly as Cabin Crew and then go for the pilot thing. I don't honestly think it'll increase your chances of becoming a pilot though (or decrease the chance either). That depends on how committed you are, and your aptitude to fly. In that sense, anyone with the commitment and aptitude could become a pilot (subject to availability!)
As for the experience, it'll definitely give you loads. You get to speak with the guys & gals up-front, ask loads of questions, see loads of nice views, speak with the despatchers, look at loadsheets etc. etc. You might even get to stay overseas in hotels, although that depends on who you fly with. You'll be popular with Cabin Crew when you start flying as a pilot, cause you'll know exactly what their job is like, and thus treat them with respect, especially if they're having a bad day!
The only thing I would say is that you should think a bit about the rosters you will be flying, and how tired you might be feeling after a flight; at my airline, we fly 3 earlies (anything from 0400 to 0700) then 3 lates (anything after 1200). It's up to you to decide whether you'll be up to some serious studying after flying, as sometimes you can come home feeling knackered. On the other hand, you do get lots of time off, and this time can be used to hit the books.
If it's any consolation, I'm currently studying the theoretical part of my PPL course and flying as Cabin Crew in my spare time!
There are loads of airlines recruiting; easyJet, Virgin, BA, BMI, Bmed. Take your pick.
cheers
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Hi,
thanx for the reply. Just want to get into the aviation industry now, don't really care what i do, well i do but i can't pilot a a320 on a ppl can I? :-) Was suprised at how much work i got through during my two week break from my residential course, which has put me in the frame of mind that during my days off i could seriously hit the books and possibly pass, still waiting on my august exam results though. Suprised to hear that you don't feel that being cabin crew would increase my chances, even slightly?, of moving up front. I'd have thought that the whole crew would hear about recruitment within the company and others, and also with knowing people it may give me a slight step up? Don't see myself with anything but a hell of a lot of debt when i finish my flight training and any help i can get to get me flying these planes would be a massive help
thanx for the reply. Just want to get into the aviation industry now, don't really care what i do, well i do but i can't pilot a a320 on a ppl can I? :-) Was suprised at how much work i got through during my two week break from my residential course, which has put me in the frame of mind that during my days off i could seriously hit the books and possibly pass, still waiting on my august exam results though. Suprised to hear that you don't feel that being cabin crew would increase my chances, even slightly?, of moving up front. I'd have thought that the whole crew would hear about recruitment within the company and others, and also with knowing people it may give me a slight step up? Don't see myself with anything but a hell of a lot of debt when i finish my flight training and any help i can get to get me flying these planes would be a massive help
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Hi Tiram
Regarding meeting people, networking, talking to the Chief Pilot etc. etc - maybe you're right; however, I think you'd have to be quite lucky and that for the most part, you might be better off actually being proactive and getting your ATPLs done and out of the way, rather than just waiting for someone to walk in and offer you a pilot job (obviously I'm not saying this is what you had in mind exactly, just trying to make a point).
You'll definitely get loads of very useful experience and advice from pilots (sometimes conflicting advice, but advice nonetheless); if that's what you're mostly looking for, it's a good choice of job. As I said, I don't know that it'll necessarily get you in flightdeck of a Boeing or Airbus any faster though.
It's your call.
Another thing to consider is the fact that it's not the best paid job in the world...but if that's not really a major factor (and it isn't for most people) then go for it. There's more good points than bad points!
Regarding meeting people, networking, talking to the Chief Pilot etc. etc - maybe you're right; however, I think you'd have to be quite lucky and that for the most part, you might be better off actually being proactive and getting your ATPLs done and out of the way, rather than just waiting for someone to walk in and offer you a pilot job (obviously I'm not saying this is what you had in mind exactly, just trying to make a point).
You'll definitely get loads of very useful experience and advice from pilots (sometimes conflicting advice, but advice nonetheless); if that's what you're mostly looking for, it's a good choice of job. As I said, I don't know that it'll necessarily get you in flightdeck of a Boeing or Airbus any faster though.
It's your call.
Another thing to consider is the fact that it's not the best paid job in the world...but if that's not really a major factor (and it isn't for most people) then go for it. There's more good points than bad points!
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Hi AJ,
I don't think that with minimum hours just because i am working within the company i'll get a job flying the planes. However, even within pprune, you see and hear of people asking where should i do my training, whats happening in the industry etc. I think that valuable advice could be had from training captains and people in the know. I am totally naive when it comes to the bigger picture of flying which is why i'd just like to ask questions and find out more about the industry, the company, cv writing, interview techniques, aptitude tests, and the best way to find out about them, in my eyes, are talking to people in the know. Obviously you are doing the job whilst i am still dreaming of actually getting on a plane for my job, so if i am just being stupid then let me know :-)
With regards to the money being rubbish the options i have are a job within the industry, or a job in a pub or club so for me money really isn't a major factor
cheers
I don't think that with minimum hours just because i am working within the company i'll get a job flying the planes. However, even within pprune, you see and hear of people asking where should i do my training, whats happening in the industry etc. I think that valuable advice could be had from training captains and people in the know. I am totally naive when it comes to the bigger picture of flying which is why i'd just like to ask questions and find out more about the industry, the company, cv writing, interview techniques, aptitude tests, and the best way to find out about them, in my eyes, are talking to people in the know. Obviously you are doing the job whilst i am still dreaming of actually getting on a plane for my job, so if i am just being stupid then let me know :-)
With regards to the money being rubbish the options i have are a job within the industry, or a job in a pub or club so for me money really isn't a major factor
cheers
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Go for it Tiram...you have to still have luck on your side but atleast it increases your exposure to people who can help. You might even have fun.
I got my F ATPL a year and a half ago and was banging my head against a brick wall. Now I am cabin crew for Thomas Cook and now I am in personal contact with the Chief Pilot....naturally he has my CV and I will be considered in September. Means nothing necessarily but I know a couple of guys who made it from the inside.
In the mean time I am enjoying what I do and that is a bonus.
Good luck anyway
I got my F ATPL a year and a half ago and was banging my head against a brick wall. Now I am cabin crew for Thomas Cook and now I am in personal contact with the Chief Pilot....naturally he has my CV and I will be considered in September. Means nothing necessarily but I know a couple of guys who made it from the inside.
In the mean time I am enjoying what I do and that is a bonus.
Good luck anyway
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Same situation as myself. I have PPL, IMC, Night and MEP and am currently employed as CC for MYT and was hoping for contacts etc which i have got.
The only thing i would avoid doing is working for a Charter Airline such as MYT or BY as they only employ you on a seasonal contract which means come October 31st, all the hard work you have done means nothing as you won't be in contact with them for another 4 months.
Just to give you an idea of how tough it can be, MYT have employed a guy as CC at Gatwick who has been to Oxford Aviation and has everything (ATPL, CPL, IR, MCC) and he will be finishing his seasonal contract on October 31st with no chance of staying on as Flight Deck.
The way i see it is that its almost impossible to be employed by a big airline, and fly 'big' aircraft unless you have 1000hrs plus under your belt. Maybe try the smaller ones such as Emerald or Aer Arran.
Good Luck.
The only thing i would avoid doing is working for a Charter Airline such as MYT or BY as they only employ you on a seasonal contract which means come October 31st, all the hard work you have done means nothing as you won't be in contact with them for another 4 months.
Just to give you an idea of how tough it can be, MYT have employed a guy as CC at Gatwick who has been to Oxford Aviation and has everything (ATPL, CPL, IR, MCC) and he will be finishing his seasonal contract on October 31st with no chance of staying on as Flight Deck.
The way i see it is that its almost impossible to be employed by a big airline, and fly 'big' aircraft unless you have 1000hrs plus under your belt. Maybe try the smaller ones such as Emerald or Aer Arran.
Good Luck.
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Ironically i think that having a seasonal contract would be amazing as i'd be able to get my cpl and ir out of the way during my time off, whilst showing potential employers that the aviation industry is where i want to be, and getting contacts. I am not a lucky person unfortunatly so to improve my chances is very important
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Any contact you can get with crews directly, however that may be achieved, is more helpful to you that no contact at all. Whilst it may not be as financially rewarding, working within the aviation industry in almost any capacity is also more helpful than working outside it.
I know a number of people who have progressed from various positions within the industry (ops, dispatch, cabin crew, instructing) to a flight deck position, and all this since 9/11 and with less than 400 hours. It can happen, but there is still an enormous element of luck involved too.
However, just be aware that while getting your name and your face known within the industry can be helpful, it can also work against you quite spectacularly if people take a dislike to you, or you screw up big time. It is a very small industry and word gets around amazingly quickly. I know of one former colleague who got a poor reputation and I don't fancy his chances any time soon.
I know a number of people who have progressed from various positions within the industry (ops, dispatch, cabin crew, instructing) to a flight deck position, and all this since 9/11 and with less than 400 hours. It can happen, but there is still an enormous element of luck involved too.
However, just be aware that while getting your name and your face known within the industry can be helpful, it can also work against you quite spectacularly if people take a dislike to you, or you screw up big time. It is a very small industry and word gets around amazingly quickly. I know of one former colleague who got a poor reputation and I don't fancy his chances any time soon.
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Mmmm thats not something i thought about. Thanx for that advice. Maybe i should reconsider. Better to go in fresh faced than have my name known about the industry, not that i'd be bad, infact i think i'd be good, but sometimes its better not to take the risk of getting black listed for life. this flying game is a lot of money
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My 2 cents:
I used to be a hostie with Air2bob and I happen to have met on a trip one of the boyz in charge of selecting the pilots. I asked similar questions to yours 'coz my bro' is in your same situation (well, he's got his JAR, 1600 hours TT but no jet time... well, some A320 SIM time).
This is what my tiny brain recalls from our conversation:
A. Chances to be selected for a F/O job are very little, especially in this period, due to the nature of the charter business (busy summer, slow winter). Several medium range aircraft need to be sub-leased during the winter and pilots relocated overseas (Canadian contracts or 75% pay for 50% work).
B. Two cabin crew LGW based are actually pilots. One used to fly T-props for Olympic, the other has only few hours but a JAR. Both of them are lovely guys, very professional and a breath of fresh air to the airline! Although they both informed the Cabin Crew Manager of their situation, the responsible for pilots recruitment in Manchester (him) was never informed about these internal requests (in fact, it was my pleasure to put them in touch).
To my knowledge, none of these two guys have been offered a F/O position yet but they have been told they would be considered if an opportunity for a cadet was to arise. Fingers crossed guys!
C. Your chances to get a F/O position by becoming a cabin crew first are, to his/my opinion, very slim. You'd be better off trying to fly regional for a few years, building up your hours and gaining FLYING experience instead of customer service (C.C. training might be seen as valuable considering the need for more CRM but the customer service aspect is not really needed as a pilot and badly remunerated anyway - crap for crap, fly front!).
D. If you were that keen on the CC job anyway... then a better option would be to choose a small company (flying 737's, 320's,...) where you can build a rapport with management. BUT DON'T PAY FOR YOU TYPE-RATING UNLESS YOU'RE GUARANTEED A CONTRACT!! Too many have done that...
(Close experience)
If you ever get there, remember me on turnaround: "Tea, white, no sugar. Thanks Tiram!"
Please people out there, help this poor chap! Show the F/D we are nice too!
FJ
I used to be a hostie with Air2bob and I happen to have met on a trip one of the boyz in charge of selecting the pilots. I asked similar questions to yours 'coz my bro' is in your same situation (well, he's got his JAR, 1600 hours TT but no jet time... well, some A320 SIM time).
This is what my tiny brain recalls from our conversation:
A. Chances to be selected for a F/O job are very little, especially in this period, due to the nature of the charter business (busy summer, slow winter). Several medium range aircraft need to be sub-leased during the winter and pilots relocated overseas (Canadian contracts or 75% pay for 50% work).
B. Two cabin crew LGW based are actually pilots. One used to fly T-props for Olympic, the other has only few hours but a JAR. Both of them are lovely guys, very professional and a breath of fresh air to the airline! Although they both informed the Cabin Crew Manager of their situation, the responsible for pilots recruitment in Manchester (him) was never informed about these internal requests (in fact, it was my pleasure to put them in touch).
To my knowledge, none of these two guys have been offered a F/O position yet but they have been told they would be considered if an opportunity for a cadet was to arise. Fingers crossed guys!
C. Your chances to get a F/O position by becoming a cabin crew first are, to his/my opinion, very slim. You'd be better off trying to fly regional for a few years, building up your hours and gaining FLYING experience instead of customer service (C.C. training might be seen as valuable considering the need for more CRM but the customer service aspect is not really needed as a pilot and badly remunerated anyway - crap for crap, fly front!).
D. If you were that keen on the CC job anyway... then a better option would be to choose a small company (flying 737's, 320's,...) where you can build a rapport with management. BUT DON'T PAY FOR YOU TYPE-RATING UNLESS YOU'RE GUARANTEED A CONTRACT!! Too many have done that...
(Close experience)If you ever get there, remember me on turnaround: "Tea, white, no sugar. Thanks Tiram!"
Please people out there, help this poor chap! Show the F/D we are nice too!
FJ
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Thanx for the reply. It really is a dilema about what to do. Wish this profession was like medicine, pass your stuff get a job. Mind you could we still bitch about it then? 
Just want to work at 35000 feet
Just want to work at 35000 feet
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Tiram, another option is to go ahead & apply for Cabin Crew, then move accross to something more relevant as & when the opportunity arises.
For example, after a period of time, you might ask around to try and get into the Flightdeck Training dept, or even Ops or Crewing. It's all been done at my airline.
Obviously I wouldn't make your intentions too clear at the interview!
I agree with Floaty, a smaller airline might make it easier for you to move accross to another dept, but get what you can.
For example, after a period of time, you might ask around to try and get into the Flightdeck Training dept, or even Ops or Crewing. It's all been done at my airline.
Obviously I wouldn't make your intentions too clear at the interview!
I agree with Floaty, a smaller airline might make it easier for you to move accross to another dept, but get what you can.
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Obviously the closer to the front of the plane i get the better 
The whole excitement of flying is why i'm trying to get involved with this industry so i would ideally want to be working above the ground. I know of lots of qualified pilots who throw bags around whilst waiting for an opportunity with an airline and i wonder what contact they have with the decision makers?
Whilst i remember when going for a cabin crew role, would it be wise to tell them i am working towards my frozen atpl? It would show that i\'m interested in aviation but it would also be clear that i wouldn\'t want to be cabin crew for ever
The whole excitement of flying is why i'm trying to get involved with this industry so i would ideally want to be working above the ground. I know of lots of qualified pilots who throw bags around whilst waiting for an opportunity with an airline and i wonder what contact they have with the decision makers?
Whilst i remember when going for a cabin crew role, would it be wise to tell them i am working towards my frozen atpl? It would show that i\'m interested in aviation but it would also be clear that i wouldn\'t want to be cabin crew for ever
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Tiram,
I know of many pilots who were cabin crew in a previous life, and that's just in one company. I'm sure you'll find lots of them out there. I have been c/c for 18 months know and my ambition is to fly too.
If you are determined and a hard worker, there is no reason why flying as cabin crew first would harm any chance of flying with an airline as a pilot later on. If you get to know the right people who know's what could happen?
I find working as c/c great fun, and is only 2nd best to flying 'the other side of the locked door'! You will have the chance meet and make friends with loads of pilots who are the best people (naturally) to give you advice. You will also have many chances to sit on the jumpseat which helps a great deal with understanding the a/c, procedures, etc. and what a pilot's day's work is really like.
Working as c/c, for me, has been invaluable.
If you go for it I wish you the best of luck.
Tri
I know of many pilots who were cabin crew in a previous life, and that's just in one company. I'm sure you'll find lots of them out there. I have been c/c for 18 months know and my ambition is to fly too.
If you are determined and a hard worker, there is no reason why flying as cabin crew first would harm any chance of flying with an airline as a pilot later on. If you get to know the right people who know's what could happen?
I find working as c/c great fun, and is only 2nd best to flying 'the other side of the locked door'! You will have the chance meet and make friends with loads of pilots who are the best people (naturally) to give you advice. You will also have many chances to sit on the jumpseat which helps a great deal with understanding the a/c, procedures, etc. and what a pilot's day's work is really like.
Working as c/c, for me, has been invaluable.
If you go for it I wish you the best of luck.
Tri
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Well i have sent off a few applications for cc and have noticed that there are open days/interviews going on so i'll be popping in for a few of them. Its one thing to sit here saying "i don't know if i should try cc or just carry on and get the flying out f the way frst" when i haven't even been offered a job. With any luck i'll be offered a job then i'll have a proper decision on my hands.
Thanx for everybodies help on this forum, ps if anybody wants to sponsor me through the rest of my flying and give me a type rating and job please feel free to pm
cheers
mart
Thanx for everybodies help on this forum, ps if anybody wants to sponsor me through the rest of my flying and give me a type rating and job please feel free to pm
cheers
mart
