Qantas Australia Interviews - Anyone heard back yet?
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chinup
What would you expect the FAAA to do? This is an external recruitment. Yes, peopl e like me are members...but this whole problem stems from QF's external recruiting practices (at a time when it wants strikebreakers).
The FAAA is not about to support QF in it's bid to fill places left behind by striking crew. No union would be that stupid.
What would you expect the FAAA to do? This is an external recruitment. Yes, peopl e like me are members...but this whole problem stems from QF's external recruiting practices (at a time when it wants strikebreakers).
The FAAA is not about to support QF in it's bid to fill places left behind by striking crew. No union would be that stupid.
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seatback
Well QF r cleverly destroying their crew, but for what reaon. Perhpas Qantas has invented the first Robot Cabin Crew. They r pissing everyone off and even those new recruits. It can't be that difficult to solve this mess
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I got a call yesterday offering me a position...
The lady explained everything, the same as what has already been discussed on here... 3 month contract starting 11 Dec. After that, you are placed on a shortlist which expires after 6 months.
They fly me to Sydney next Thursday to start training for 12 days. THen there are 3 one day refresher courses before the contract starts... Like others have said, training is out of business hours.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to finding out more about... Has anyone else heard anything yet? Anyone else starting training next week??
The lady explained everything, the same as what has already been discussed on here... 3 month contract starting 11 Dec. After that, you are placed on a shortlist which expires after 6 months.
They fly me to Sydney next Thursday to start training for 12 days. THen there are 3 one day refresher courses before the contract starts... Like others have said, training is out of business hours.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to finding out more about... Has anyone else heard anything yet? Anyone else starting training next week??
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Mmmmmm
U get to stay at Geoff Dixon's palazzio......yeah right if up 2 qf probably the local YHA no....only kidding
probably somewhere close to where u will be training in Mascot, then again perhaps far far away so Union reps can't get ahold of u.
Dear oh dear, has this not turned out to be one big mess. Those that were dieing to fly, don't seem so certain now, all the assholes already up in the sky will treat strike breakers like scum, yet the irony is that most that will treat the breakers as scum r scum themselves. Then u have those gr8 CC that will open their arms to the new crew understanding the new crews circumstances, bu the new crew will reteliate thinking they r the scum crew.
Phone calls r being made as we speak with offers for this 3 month contract, many r declining, yet once all this is nearing an end the final heap will get e-mails in the likes of...." Dear Mr/Mrs so and so, we at QF appreciate u applying for the role of CC unfortunately on this attempt, u have been unsuccessful" etc.... but were they unsuccessful? should the e-mail not be more like..."Dear so and so, thank u for applying, due to industrial action and the concensus that our spoiled CC were due to strike, but did not, we r now not offering the proposed contracts originally discussed at your assessment centre. U were in fact successful, but we can't tell u that due to litigation"......Mmmmmm think about it guys/gals, there will be a lot of unfortunate good natured people out there, with egoes shot to pieces due this mess, perhaps u should look at a class law suit against QF. Perhaps if it gets some press, QF will stop treating people the way they r.
probably somewhere close to where u will be training in Mascot, then again perhaps far far away so Union reps can't get ahold of u.
Dear oh dear, has this not turned out to be one big mess. Those that were dieing to fly, don't seem so certain now, all the assholes already up in the sky will treat strike breakers like scum, yet the irony is that most that will treat the breakers as scum r scum themselves. Then u have those gr8 CC that will open their arms to the new crew understanding the new crews circumstances, bu the new crew will reteliate thinking they r the scum crew.
Phone calls r being made as we speak with offers for this 3 month contract, many r declining, yet once all this is nearing an end the final heap will get e-mails in the likes of...." Dear Mr/Mrs so and so, we at QF appreciate u applying for the role of CC unfortunately on this attempt, u have been unsuccessful" etc.... but were they unsuccessful? should the e-mail not be more like..."Dear so and so, thank u for applying, due to industrial action and the concensus that our spoiled CC were due to strike, but did not, we r now not offering the proposed contracts originally discussed at your assessment centre. U were in fact successful, but we can't tell u that due to litigation"......Mmmmmm think about it guys/gals, there will be a lot of unfortunate good natured people out there, with egoes shot to pieces due this mess, perhaps u should look at a class law suit against QF. Perhaps if it gets some press, QF will stop treating people the way they r.
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Good to hear the FAAA are being allowed to visit the new recruits. Recently Mark Hassell prevented the FAAA from visiting new starters as the company don't want crew to join the FAAA.
Can't imagine why?
Can't imagine why?
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Just finished qantas training
Hi,
I attended an ass day in Melbourne in the start of August. They called me 5 days later to organise some paperwork, then started to call my references. A few days later I got asked to attend a medical and they started to give me innoculations. One week later I got offered the job. I accepted and off to Sydney I went. I got flown business class and put up in the Mecure hotel for 14 days. The wage is something like $460pw but you also get $88.55 per day which is collected from the front desk each day. So the money is really good! Our group went to the supermarket and stocked up on food so we could save some money. Because we were with Qantas the buffet breakfast at the hotel was only $15, BARGAIN! It is my dream to be a flight attendant and I will take any opportunity I can get. Some people have mentioned that we were trained at strange hrs so that we wouldnt come into contact with other flight attendants, well we were trained at those hrs to make full use of the facilities. other groups trained during the day and we did for 2 of the days and I saw a few long-haul f/a s and they smiled at me. Qantas has been honest with me from day 1, if people don't like what is being offered then they don't have to take it. The way I look at it, it is a foot in the door and I know for a fact that working as a strike-breaker will not effect my chances at working for Qantas again, because the way Qantas sees it is that we are there willing to help them out! Plus I had the time of my life at the training, if anything it has motivated me more to acheiving my ultimate dream in life- to become a Qantas flight attendant. So if you are lucky enough to get this opportunity to attend the training I urge you to go. But be warned it is hard work and you need to study hard, but that feeling you get when you pass all the exams is worth it...It makes you feel like you can do anything. Happy Flying!
I attended an ass day in Melbourne in the start of August. They called me 5 days later to organise some paperwork, then started to call my references. A few days later I got asked to attend a medical and they started to give me innoculations. One week later I got offered the job. I accepted and off to Sydney I went. I got flown business class and put up in the Mecure hotel for 14 days. The wage is something like $460pw but you also get $88.55 per day which is collected from the front desk each day. So the money is really good! Our group went to the supermarket and stocked up on food so we could save some money. Because we were with Qantas the buffet breakfast at the hotel was only $15, BARGAIN! It is my dream to be a flight attendant and I will take any opportunity I can get. Some people have mentioned that we were trained at strange hrs so that we wouldnt come into contact with other flight attendants, well we were trained at those hrs to make full use of the facilities. other groups trained during the day and we did for 2 of the days and I saw a few long-haul f/a s and they smiled at me. Qantas has been honest with me from day 1, if people don't like what is being offered then they don't have to take it. The way I look at it, it is a foot in the door and I know for a fact that working as a strike-breaker will not effect my chances at working for Qantas again, because the way Qantas sees it is that we are there willing to help them out! Plus I had the time of my life at the training, if anything it has motivated me more to acheiving my ultimate dream in life- to become a Qantas flight attendant. So if you are lucky enough to get this opportunity to attend the training I urge you to go. But be warned it is hard work and you need to study hard, but that feeling you get when you pass all the exams is worth it...It makes you feel like you can do anything. Happy Flying!
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It sickens me to the stomach to see QF cynically using so many keen and eager young Australians in this manner.
Experience as a strike breaker is one thing but at the end of the day if QF win this industrial battle there wont be another Australian based International longhaul FA job available with QF for many, many years.
Contractors will be discarded as QF will be free to hire as many cheaper offshore crew as it wishes and we all know that at QF, ONLY money matters.
L2P "S.T.R"
Experience as a strike breaker is one thing but at the end of the day if QF win this industrial battle there wont be another Australian based International longhaul FA job available with QF for many, many years.
Contractors will be discarded as QF will be free to hire as many cheaper offshore crew as it wishes and we all know that at QF, ONLY money matters.
L2P "S.T.R"
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Training
Hi Guys,
I was just curious to know if during the current Long Haul 12 day training they also include "inflight training". Reading previous posts it sounds like it is all on the ground. What happens if you are called up to fly in December??? Will you have the opportunity to train on the aircraft, in a real life context???
Cheers
SocialFlyer
I was just curious to know if during the current Long Haul 12 day training they also include "inflight training". Reading previous posts it sounds like it is all on the ground. What happens if you are called up to fly in December??? Will you have the opportunity to train on the aircraft, in a real life context???
Cheers
SocialFlyer
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SocialFlyer
Unlike Shorthaul, Longhaul crew (fixed term or otherwise) do not do any inflight training. All training is ground based.You just finish your ground school (maybe do one observation flight) and off you go !
Unlike Shorthaul, Longhaul crew (fixed term or otherwise) do not do any inflight training. All training is ground based.You just finish your ground school (maybe do one observation flight) and off you go !
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Social Flyer....
Galley is absolutely correct - whilst some airlines have inflight "buddy" training Qantas don't do this. Your EP's and service training are all completed on the ground and you have one supernumery flight.
Then your off into the wild blue yonder.....
Galley is absolutely correct - whilst some airlines have inflight "buddy" training Qantas don't do this. Your EP's and service training are all completed on the ground and you have one supernumery flight.
Then your off into the wild blue yonder.....
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This post is a cut and paste from the D&G forum relating to the upcoming industrial strife-
ABC News Online
Monday, October 18, 2004. 6:09pm (AEST)
Qantas flight attendant talks deadlocked
There has been no progress in talks with Qantas over the hiring of flight attendants on short-term contracts, the Flight Attendants Association says.
The talks were ordered by the Industrial Relations Commission (IRC) and the association's Michael Mijatov says the union will seek another hearing.
He says Qantas is using the workers for its own gain.
"They're desperate to get jobs these people, and what they [Qantas] intend to do is actually terminate their employment and give it to people overseas," he said.
"I mean if Qantas is serious they should come out now and say that they'll give these people full-time work."
The Flight Attendants Association claims 300 new flight attendants employed recently are being trained to thwart any strike action over the Christmas period.
The airline denies the workers are being secretly trained as strike breakers.
Qantas executive general manager John Borghetti has rejected the Commissioner's description of the airline's dealings with the union as brief and unhelpful.
"Well, I think one has to look at the totality of the discussions that have been going on between us and the union," he said.
"There hasn't just been one letter, there have been numerous discussions, correspondence over a variety of issues and certainly it wasn't our intention to not continue those discussions.
"It was, in fact, the union that walked away and brought them to an end."
===========================================
L2P "S.T.R".
ABC News Online
Monday, October 18, 2004. 6:09pm (AEST)
Qantas flight attendant talks deadlocked
There has been no progress in talks with Qantas over the hiring of flight attendants on short-term contracts, the Flight Attendants Association says.
The talks were ordered by the Industrial Relations Commission (IRC) and the association's Michael Mijatov says the union will seek another hearing.
He says Qantas is using the workers for its own gain.
"They're desperate to get jobs these people, and what they [Qantas] intend to do is actually terminate their employment and give it to people overseas," he said.
"I mean if Qantas is serious they should come out now and say that they'll give these people full-time work."
The Flight Attendants Association claims 300 new flight attendants employed recently are being trained to thwart any strike action over the Christmas period.
The airline denies the workers are being secretly trained as strike breakers.
Qantas executive general manager John Borghetti has rejected the Commissioner's description of the airline's dealings with the union as brief and unhelpful.
"Well, I think one has to look at the totality of the discussions that have been going on between us and the union," he said.
"There hasn't just been one letter, there have been numerous discussions, correspondence over a variety of issues and certainly it wasn't our intention to not continue those discussions.
"It was, in fact, the union that walked away and brought them to an end."
===========================================
L2P "S.T.R".
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Talks ordered for Qantas dispute
By Amy Fallon
October 18, 2004
QANTAS and the flight attendants' union have been ordered to hold talks over union claims the airline is secretly training strike breakers.
The order was made by the Australian Industrial Relations Commission (AIRC) during a brief hearing in Sydney today.
During the hearing, the Flight Attendants Association of Australia (FAAA) claimed more than 300 workers were being employed on short-term contracts ahead of the opening of Qantas' London base next year.
It argued the carrier had breached part of the enterprise agreement, which says it must show that work cannot be undertaken by full-time staff before it can give fixed-term employment to other people.
A lawyer for the FAAA, Victoria Skinner, today called on the AIRC to summons Qantas to produce contracts showing the company's operations.
Ms Skinner said the FAAA had met fixed-term employees, some of whom had "contradictory" stories. Indications were that Qantas had breached parts of the clause relating to contracts, training and rosters, she said.
She said when the union wrote to the carrier about these, they had failed to offer a "satisfactory" response.
"We say the company hasn't consulted adequately to provide the information," Ms Skinner told the commission.
Counsel for Qantas, Frank Parry SC, said the airline "was not exactly sure of the case being advanced against it".
"The union wants to use the process of this commission to obtain more than they're entitled to in the enterprise agreement," Mr Parry said.
AIRC Commissioner Frank Raffaelli would not issue a subpoena, although he said on several occasions Qantas had been "fairly brief and not particularly informative" with the FAAA.
He ordered the parties hold talks, which were expected to begin this afternoon.
Following the hearing, FAAA divisional secretary Michael Mijatov said Qantas was not being forthcoming about its plans.
"I think it's just absolutely disgraceful that these young Australians are being abused in this manner," Mr Mijatov said.
"Qantas fully knows it intends to throw them back on the streets once their London base opens."
Mr Mijatov said the union would get access to the contracts "one way or another" and would consider striking at Christmas, even though it might be unpopular with the public.
"The people actually causing this are Qantas and it's absolutely legitimate that Qantas flight attendants fight for their job security," he said.
AAP
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Qantas admits strikebreaking plan
By Steve Creedy
October 19, 2004
QANTAS officials finally admitted yesterday that 350 flight attendants employed on three-month contracts would be asked to fly in place of permanent staff if there was a strike over Christmas.
Officials moved beyond previously circumspect references to "contingency plans" amid claims by the Flight Attendants Association of Australia that the airline was creating a "Dad's Army" of poorly trained strikebreakers.
Qantas Airlines executive general manager John Borghetti said the primary reason for employing the short-term flight attendants was to cover increased flying, which included new services to China, Europe and the US.
"However, if you're asking me the question - are these people going to fly if the FAAA takes industrial action, are we going to ask them to do that? - the answer is yes," he said.
The FAAA is shaping up for the Christmas stoush as it prepares to start negotiating a new enterprise bargaining agreement and fights a Qantas plan to base 400 flight attendants in London.
The Australian Industrial Relations Commission will hear union complaints today about secrecy and lack of access to the short-term employees. The commission sent the parties away for face-to-face talks after a short hearing yesterday morning at which the union sought unsuccessfully to get a copy of the short-term contracts.
Mr Borghetti said there was "absolutely no secrecy". "We've informed the union that we're doing it and we've offered them access to talk to the groups."
He also rejected union claims the new staff were inadequately trained.
FAAA international division secretary Michael Mijatov said the flight attendants were receiving 11 days' training instead of six weeks.
But Mr Borghetti said the training was shorter because crew were being trained on only one aircraft type, the Boeing 747, instead of a range of aircraft. He said the training had been approved by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority.
The Australian
By Amy Fallon
October 18, 2004
QANTAS and the flight attendants' union have been ordered to hold talks over union claims the airline is secretly training strike breakers.
The order was made by the Australian Industrial Relations Commission (AIRC) during a brief hearing in Sydney today.
During the hearing, the Flight Attendants Association of Australia (FAAA) claimed more than 300 workers were being employed on short-term contracts ahead of the opening of Qantas' London base next year.
It argued the carrier had breached part of the enterprise agreement, which says it must show that work cannot be undertaken by full-time staff before it can give fixed-term employment to other people.
A lawyer for the FAAA, Victoria Skinner, today called on the AIRC to summons Qantas to produce contracts showing the company's operations.
Ms Skinner said the FAAA had met fixed-term employees, some of whom had "contradictory" stories. Indications were that Qantas had breached parts of the clause relating to contracts, training and rosters, she said.
She said when the union wrote to the carrier about these, they had failed to offer a "satisfactory" response.
"We say the company hasn't consulted adequately to provide the information," Ms Skinner told the commission.
Counsel for Qantas, Frank Parry SC, said the airline "was not exactly sure of the case being advanced against it".
"The union wants to use the process of this commission to obtain more than they're entitled to in the enterprise agreement," Mr Parry said.
AIRC Commissioner Frank Raffaelli would not issue a subpoena, although he said on several occasions Qantas had been "fairly brief and not particularly informative" with the FAAA.
He ordered the parties hold talks, which were expected to begin this afternoon.
Following the hearing, FAAA divisional secretary Michael Mijatov said Qantas was not being forthcoming about its plans.
"I think it's just absolutely disgraceful that these young Australians are being abused in this manner," Mr Mijatov said.
"Qantas fully knows it intends to throw them back on the streets once their London base opens."
Mr Mijatov said the union would get access to the contracts "one way or another" and would consider striking at Christmas, even though it might be unpopular with the public.
"The people actually causing this are Qantas and it's absolutely legitimate that Qantas flight attendants fight for their job security," he said.
AAP
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Qantas admits strikebreaking plan
By Steve Creedy
October 19, 2004
QANTAS officials finally admitted yesterday that 350 flight attendants employed on three-month contracts would be asked to fly in place of permanent staff if there was a strike over Christmas.
Officials moved beyond previously circumspect references to "contingency plans" amid claims by the Flight Attendants Association of Australia that the airline was creating a "Dad's Army" of poorly trained strikebreakers.
Qantas Airlines executive general manager John Borghetti said the primary reason for employing the short-term flight attendants was to cover increased flying, which included new services to China, Europe and the US.
"However, if you're asking me the question - are these people going to fly if the FAAA takes industrial action, are we going to ask them to do that? - the answer is yes," he said.
The FAAA is shaping up for the Christmas stoush as it prepares to start negotiating a new enterprise bargaining agreement and fights a Qantas plan to base 400 flight attendants in London.
The Australian Industrial Relations Commission will hear union complaints today about secrecy and lack of access to the short-term employees. The commission sent the parties away for face-to-face talks after a short hearing yesterday morning at which the union sought unsuccessfully to get a copy of the short-term contracts.
Mr Borghetti said there was "absolutely no secrecy". "We've informed the union that we're doing it and we've offered them access to talk to the groups."
He also rejected union claims the new staff were inadequately trained.
FAAA international division secretary Michael Mijatov said the flight attendants were receiving 11 days' training instead of six weeks.
But Mr Borghetti said the training was shorter because crew were being trained on only one aircraft type, the Boeing 747, instead of a range of aircraft. He said the training had been approved by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority.
The Australian
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Lies, lies and more lies from the trough feeders-
Qantas denies strike-breaker claims
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EMAIL STORY
PM - Monday, 18 October_, 2004_ 18:25:07
Reporter: Phillipa McDonald
MARK COLVIN: Qantas passengers hoping to travel this Christmas may be in for an interesting time, as the flag carrier prepares to go head to head with one of its biggest trade unions.
The powerful Flight Attendants Association took Qantas to the Industrial Relations Commission today over the employment and training of 350 staff who could be used to break any strike.
Both parties were ordered to meet face to face to discuss their differences.
Qantas maintains there's nothing unusual about the hirings.
But the union points to what it calls clandestine activity such as training in the middle of the night, special passwords at bus pick-up points and King Gee uniforms.
Phillipa McDonald has the story.
(sound of bus)
PHILLIPA MCDONALD: The sound of a bus making its way around Qantas' Sydney Airport base. But this is no ordinary journey. Qantas is using these unmarked coaches as part of a highly sensitive exercise to train new flight attendants, who could eventually double as strike breakers.
They're bussed between sessions by non-Qantas drivers.
For Michael Mijatov of the Flight Attendants Association, the mystery is becoming too much.
MICHAEL MIJATOV: I mean, how ridiculous, you know, they're having buses that aren't marked with Qantas insignia, and drivers who aren't Qantas employees, picking up young people at airports, going up to them and saying, "Are you going anywhere?" If you say the right code word, you know "Bronte", you're picked up and taken somewhere.
It's a wonder they haven't been arrested by the police.
PHILLIPA MCDONALD: ABC TV News has spoken to one of the Qantas trainees on the basis of anonymity. She gave up her full time job when Qantas offered her an opportunity to become a flight attendant.
QANTAS TRAINEE (read by actor): It has been a long time dream of mine to become a flight attendant, and what an honour it was at the beginning to be accepted for training into Qantas, the leading airline in the world. But my thoughts have changed, and frankly I am scared of the unknown situation that has presented itself to me.
PHILLIPA MCDONALD: The young woman says they were trained in the middle of the night during the first week of an 11 day course.
QANTAS TRAINEE (read by actor): We were given instructions about confidentiality and not to give any information to anyone about what we are being trained for.
PHILLIPA MCDONALD: And she says the participants in her course were shocked when they passed their training and it came time to be fitted with uniforms.
QANTAS TRAINEE (read by actor): To our disgust we were fitted with King Gee pants and a Polo top. We wondered why they were treating us differently after all the intense, physically draining, intense training we had just completed and passed. We thought that the Qantas image was professional and corporate and something to be proud to wear. But what we were fitted for was a very poor dress standard and not even suitable for the maintenance ground crew.
PHILLIPA MCDONALD: The trainee says she's now waiting for work, and has been told by Qantas to be on call, that her contract will be activated in December, the very time the flight attendants union is threatening to strike over the outsourcing of jobs overseas.
The union's Michael Mijatov.
MICHAEL MIJATOV: I think it's just absolutely disgraceful that these young Australians are being abused in this manner, when Qantas fully knows it intends to throw them back on the street once their London base opens.
They just may as well tell the truth.
PHILLIPA MCDONALD: Not surprisingly, Qantas has rejected the charges of clandestine training, but says it will continue to drive through much-needed cost-cutting and reform.
Executive General Manager, John Borghetti.
JOHN BORGHETTI: Look, if you're asking me, will we ask these flight attendants to fly in the event of an industrial dispute, of course we will, just like we will ask all our cabin crew members to fly.
PHILLIPA MCDONALD: And are you pressing ahead still with outsourcing to London?
JOHN BORGHETTI: Our London base will continue, we've given the union an absolute iron-clad guarantee that it will not mean job redundancies in Australia. And in fact, this will allow us to grow and grow significantly as an international airline in an industry that is extremely volatile and very competitive.
PHILLIPA MCDONALD: The unions say that they reckon your intention is just to have these people for three months and then throw them on the scrap heap.
What do you say to that?
JOHN BORGHETTI: Well you know, we employ 35,000 people here. The average tenure is one of the longest of any company in Australia. I think we're a pretty good employer. The union can say whatever they want.
MARK COLVIN: Qantas Executive General Manager, John Borghetti, ending Phillipa McDonald's report.
-------------------------------------------------------------
L2P "S.T.R".
Qantas denies strike-breaker claims
PRINT FRIENDLY
EMAIL STORY
PM - Monday, 18 October_, 2004_ 18:25:07
Reporter: Phillipa McDonald
MARK COLVIN: Qantas passengers hoping to travel this Christmas may be in for an interesting time, as the flag carrier prepares to go head to head with one of its biggest trade unions.
The powerful Flight Attendants Association took Qantas to the Industrial Relations Commission today over the employment and training of 350 staff who could be used to break any strike.
Both parties were ordered to meet face to face to discuss their differences.
Qantas maintains there's nothing unusual about the hirings.
But the union points to what it calls clandestine activity such as training in the middle of the night, special passwords at bus pick-up points and King Gee uniforms.
Phillipa McDonald has the story.
(sound of bus)
PHILLIPA MCDONALD: The sound of a bus making its way around Qantas' Sydney Airport base. But this is no ordinary journey. Qantas is using these unmarked coaches as part of a highly sensitive exercise to train new flight attendants, who could eventually double as strike breakers.
They're bussed between sessions by non-Qantas drivers.
For Michael Mijatov of the Flight Attendants Association, the mystery is becoming too much.
MICHAEL MIJATOV: I mean, how ridiculous, you know, they're having buses that aren't marked with Qantas insignia, and drivers who aren't Qantas employees, picking up young people at airports, going up to them and saying, "Are you going anywhere?" If you say the right code word, you know "Bronte", you're picked up and taken somewhere.
It's a wonder they haven't been arrested by the police.
PHILLIPA MCDONALD: ABC TV News has spoken to one of the Qantas trainees on the basis of anonymity. She gave up her full time job when Qantas offered her an opportunity to become a flight attendant.
QANTAS TRAINEE (read by actor): It has been a long time dream of mine to become a flight attendant, and what an honour it was at the beginning to be accepted for training into Qantas, the leading airline in the world. But my thoughts have changed, and frankly I am scared of the unknown situation that has presented itself to me.
PHILLIPA MCDONALD: The young woman says they were trained in the middle of the night during the first week of an 11 day course.
QANTAS TRAINEE (read by actor): We were given instructions about confidentiality and not to give any information to anyone about what we are being trained for.
PHILLIPA MCDONALD: And she says the participants in her course were shocked when they passed their training and it came time to be fitted with uniforms.
QANTAS TRAINEE (read by actor): To our disgust we were fitted with King Gee pants and a Polo top. We wondered why they were treating us differently after all the intense, physically draining, intense training we had just completed and passed. We thought that the Qantas image was professional and corporate and something to be proud to wear. But what we were fitted for was a very poor dress standard and not even suitable for the maintenance ground crew.
PHILLIPA MCDONALD: The trainee says she's now waiting for work, and has been told by Qantas to be on call, that her contract will be activated in December, the very time the flight attendants union is threatening to strike over the outsourcing of jobs overseas.
The union's Michael Mijatov.
MICHAEL MIJATOV: I think it's just absolutely disgraceful that these young Australians are being abused in this manner, when Qantas fully knows it intends to throw them back on the street once their London base opens.
They just may as well tell the truth.
PHILLIPA MCDONALD: Not surprisingly, Qantas has rejected the charges of clandestine training, but says it will continue to drive through much-needed cost-cutting and reform.
Executive General Manager, John Borghetti.
JOHN BORGHETTI: Look, if you're asking me, will we ask these flight attendants to fly in the event of an industrial dispute, of course we will, just like we will ask all our cabin crew members to fly.
PHILLIPA MCDONALD: And are you pressing ahead still with outsourcing to London?
JOHN BORGHETTI: Our London base will continue, we've given the union an absolute iron-clad guarantee that it will not mean job redundancies in Australia. And in fact, this will allow us to grow and grow significantly as an international airline in an industry that is extremely volatile and very competitive.
PHILLIPA MCDONALD: The unions say that they reckon your intention is just to have these people for three months and then throw them on the scrap heap.
What do you say to that?
JOHN BORGHETTI: Well you know, we employ 35,000 people here. The average tenure is one of the longest of any company in Australia. I think we're a pretty good employer. The union can say whatever they want.
MARK COLVIN: Qantas Executive General Manager, John Borghetti, ending Phillipa McDonald's report.
-------------------------------------------------------------
L2P "S.T.R".
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keep the big picture in mind
how tempers flair,
guys once again leave the emotions out of it and treat it as a business deal. isn't that what qf managers keep telling us- the business.
here are the reasons why this EBA is so important regardless of base or division.
very little promotions in australia will happen (there are a number of junior guys who are keen and competent to go for promotions but there will be very few slots if any available in the future.
flying will become stagnant (if anyone thinks that london / bangkok will be the only overseas base down the track think again)
inflation runs currently at 4%, so 3% wage offer is unrealistic
shorter trips less money (doesnt affect melbourne or perth but it will affect those guys if they ever want to transfer and fly ouf of sydney)
less opportunities to transfer between bases (especially junior guys who want to travel ).
scenario: two year contract finished in london the guy/girl (f/a in oz) transfers back from london(where he/she was a csm/css) and decides the next slot available anywhere in OZ he/she is entitled to have back the position citing experience. not getting it the anti-discrimination board is getting very busy. trust me this will happen even if management denies this. qanats is well known for "caving in "to the threat of having to deal with the anti-discrimination board
thats why the whole EBA is a really "dud"deal for junior guys who wanted to make flying a career. senior guys if needed can handle or want short trips anyway so it does less matter to them.
but what does matter is the whole package is tied to the 3% and some cap for THIS EBA. its only for two years and then we start again. thats why the airbus clause is useless because the first A380 does not come untils two month before the eba expires. here is the point. there has never been a qantas aircraft going into service as scheduled. so two month delay and that clause is once again useless.
and for those guys who think brisbane is going to be the answer. there are over 800 applicants and unless you are part of the jurrasic park mob you stand little chance. and the flying, remember all the promises they made to the melbourne and perth base.
keep the discussions going as this hopefully will enlarge the circle and give better understanding of the "big picture".
guys once again leave the emotions out of it and treat it as a business deal. isn't that what qf managers keep telling us- the business.
here are the reasons why this EBA is so important regardless of base or division.
very little promotions in australia will happen (there are a number of junior guys who are keen and competent to go for promotions but there will be very few slots if any available in the future.
flying will become stagnant (if anyone thinks that london / bangkok will be the only overseas base down the track think again)
inflation runs currently at 4%, so 3% wage offer is unrealistic
shorter trips less money (doesnt affect melbourne or perth but it will affect those guys if they ever want to transfer and fly ouf of sydney)
less opportunities to transfer between bases (especially junior guys who want to travel ).
scenario: two year contract finished in london the guy/girl (f/a in oz) transfers back from london(where he/she was a csm/css) and decides the next slot available anywhere in OZ he/she is entitled to have back the position citing experience. not getting it the anti-discrimination board is getting very busy. trust me this will happen even if management denies this. qanats is well known for "caving in "to the threat of having to deal with the anti-discrimination board
thats why the whole EBA is a really "dud"deal for junior guys who wanted to make flying a career. senior guys if needed can handle or want short trips anyway so it does less matter to them.
but what does matter is the whole package is tied to the 3% and some cap for THIS EBA. its only for two years and then we start again. thats why the airbus clause is useless because the first A380 does not come untils two month before the eba expires. here is the point. there has never been a qantas aircraft going into service as scheduled. so two month delay and that clause is once again useless.
and for those guys who think brisbane is going to be the answer. there are over 800 applicants and unless you are part of the jurrasic park mob you stand little chance. and the flying, remember all the promises they made to the melbourne and perth base.
keep the discussions going as this hopefully will enlarge the circle and give better understanding of the "big picture".
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Cut and paste from ABC online-
Dispute between Qantas and its flight attendants quelled
The World Today - Monday, 18 October_, 2004_ 12:00:00
Reporter: Karen Percy
ELEANOR HALL: A week into the Howard Government's fourth term a confrontation between Australia's major airline and its unions may herald the start of a new era in industrial relations.
In the Industrial Relations Commission this morning, Qantas and its flight attendants seem to have headed off an imminent dispute. But there's still a very real prospect of a strike during the Christmas holiday period, with the union claiming the company is secretly training strike-breakers.
As yet there's no formal dispute between the company and the flight attendants, but the Flight Attendants Association of Australia says it will continue to fight for job security for its members, as Qantas pushes to take on more short term contract workers.
Finance reporter Karen Percy was at this morning's hearing in Sydney and she joins us now.
So Karen, what happened this morning to defuse the situation between Qantas and its flight attendants?
KAREN PERCY: Well, basically the Commissioner, Frank Raffaelli determined that the sides should go back and negotiate, that they should be talking party to party.
Now, the union this morning was trying to get a hold of documents relating to the contracts that are involving some 150 current new trainees and some 187 new recruits or recruits that are still to be trained, if you like.
They claim they've been getting contradictory statements from these trainees about the terms and conditions upon which they've been hired.
ELEANOR HALL: These are the trainees they claim are strike-breakers?
KAREN PERCY: That's right, these are the ones that the unions claim have been put on a three month contract. Now, Qantas has been saying this morning that these are employees they need as they ramp up the new services over the Christmas period, not just here in Australia, but with Jetstar Asia and the like.
So that's definitely why the company is saying it, but still the union really wanted to find out what the terms and conditions of this arrangement was.
Now, they were actually trying to subpoena these contracts. Now, Commissioner Raffaelli called that a fishing expedition, he turned it down. He seemed to be saying that it was a little premature to be subpoenaing documents when there really isn't a fully-fledged dispute as yet.
But in looking at the letters from the Association, there's been three or four of them to-ing and fro-ing from Qantas over the past couple of weeks, and he did concede that really Qantas haven't been terribly cooperative in answering a lot of the union's questions and concerns about these contracts.
He described it as – one particular letter – as being "brief and unhelpful" and he was really not sure that Qantas' response was in accordance with the enterprise bargaining agreement and that was the basis upon which the union has been putting these things on this morning.
This has of course been very controversial because the Association has been accusing the company of doing this very secretly, that there are middle of the night training sessions, not necessarily involving Qantas staffers, so all very secret squirrel it would seem. Qantas is denying a lot of that of course.
ELEANOR HALL: So how are the two sides reacting to this command, I guess, to negotiate?
KAREN PERCY: As yet, Qantas hasn't made a formal response, but we know that a spokesman and John Borghetti, the Executive General Manager this morning was denying this, saying look, they need… this is part of Geoff Dixon wanting to get more flexibility into the workforce and pushing for some 25 per cent of a more flexible workforce, whether that's casual or contract or part time or whatever.
So we haven't had any formal response yet to this particular ruling, but the union has had a mixed reaction. Here's the Flight Attendants Association of Australia's Michael Mijatov as he emerged from the hearing.
MICHAEL MIJATOV: They talk about actual work being here, that there's actual work. Well, if there is actual work, how come mystically and miraculously this work disappears after three months?
If there was actual work of course, they'd be activating their employment. Why aren't they activating their employment until the 18th of December or the 11th of December?
The answer is because there is no extra work, and they just want to abuse these people, you know, to actually use them in the most cynical way. They're desperate to get jobs these people and what they intend to do is actually terminate their employment and give it to people overseas.
I mean, if Qantas is serious they should come out now and say that they will give these people full time work. Of course they won't say that, because they're deceiving everyone.
KAREN PERCY: Are you disappointed that you didn't get access to the documents you would have liked?
MICHAEL MIJATOV: Look, we are disappointed, but nevertheless we'll get access to those documents one way or another. There's a lot of sympathetic people in Qantas as well, who are disgusted with what management are doing at the moment.
KAREN PERCY: The Commissioner called it a fishing expedition, though. Do you agree with that?
MICHAEL MIJATOV: No look, it wasn't a fishing expedition. We need to get all the information that Qantas is issuing to these people, so that we can actually see what's happening.
For example, we know for a fact they're not training them on all aircraft types and we say that's a breach of our EBA as well, because they have to have the ability to actually bid for work like all other flight attendants.
And we also say that, you know, we're hearing, for example, that the allowances that they're paying them whilst they're training here in Sydney may be below what's been agreed. We need to confirm that.
REPORTER: Are you planning on going on strike in December?
MICHAEL MIJATOV: Our members have been absolutely clear in terms of that they will fight for their job security and we will fight for our job security. This company has doubled its profits and we're not going to sit back and allow our jobs to be threatened, whilst they offshore up to 1,000 positions overseas.
KAREN PERCY: Now, a Christmas strike is going to be extremely unpopular. You're not going to get very much from the public out there, are you?
MICHAEL MIJATOV: We won't get backing from the public, but all I can say is that the public should understand that no strike is ever popular – obviously it's not. It inconveniences people. But the people actually causing this are Qantas and it's absolutely legitimate that Qantas flight attendants fight for their job security. Nothing is more fundamental.
ELEANOR HALL: Michael Mijatov, from the union there. Fighting words, Karen, looks like we are looking at prospects of strikes over Christmas?
KAREN PERCY: Absolutely, and we've got fighting words from Mr Mijatov, but also Qantas executives have been pretty hard line about this and I think that's going to be what sets the tone for this, is that there's going to be a lot of digging in of heels, because as we heard from Mr Mijatov, they're very much concerned about jobs.
So there will be discussions this afternoon, it will depend on how those discussions go. Commissioner Raffaelli says he is prepared to intervene if he needs to, but he's really hoping there will be some kind of negotiated settlement here… but playing hardball. And there is a lot of ill will here between the company and the flight attendants right now.
ELEANOR HALL: We'll be watching with interest. Karen Percy, our finance reporter, thank you.
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Dispute between Qantas and its flight attendants quelled
The World Today - Monday, 18 October_, 2004_ 12:00:00
Reporter: Karen Percy
ELEANOR HALL: A week into the Howard Government's fourth term a confrontation between Australia's major airline and its unions may herald the start of a new era in industrial relations.
In the Industrial Relations Commission this morning, Qantas and its flight attendants seem to have headed off an imminent dispute. But there's still a very real prospect of a strike during the Christmas holiday period, with the union claiming the company is secretly training strike-breakers.
As yet there's no formal dispute between the company and the flight attendants, but the Flight Attendants Association of Australia says it will continue to fight for job security for its members, as Qantas pushes to take on more short term contract workers.
Finance reporter Karen Percy was at this morning's hearing in Sydney and she joins us now.
So Karen, what happened this morning to defuse the situation between Qantas and its flight attendants?
KAREN PERCY: Well, basically the Commissioner, Frank Raffaelli determined that the sides should go back and negotiate, that they should be talking party to party.
Now, the union this morning was trying to get a hold of documents relating to the contracts that are involving some 150 current new trainees and some 187 new recruits or recruits that are still to be trained, if you like.
They claim they've been getting contradictory statements from these trainees about the terms and conditions upon which they've been hired.
ELEANOR HALL: These are the trainees they claim are strike-breakers?
KAREN PERCY: That's right, these are the ones that the unions claim have been put on a three month contract. Now, Qantas has been saying this morning that these are employees they need as they ramp up the new services over the Christmas period, not just here in Australia, but with Jetstar Asia and the like.
So that's definitely why the company is saying it, but still the union really wanted to find out what the terms and conditions of this arrangement was.
Now, they were actually trying to subpoena these contracts. Now, Commissioner Raffaelli called that a fishing expedition, he turned it down. He seemed to be saying that it was a little premature to be subpoenaing documents when there really isn't a fully-fledged dispute as yet.
But in looking at the letters from the Association, there's been three or four of them to-ing and fro-ing from Qantas over the past couple of weeks, and he did concede that really Qantas haven't been terribly cooperative in answering a lot of the union's questions and concerns about these contracts.
He described it as – one particular letter – as being "brief and unhelpful" and he was really not sure that Qantas' response was in accordance with the enterprise bargaining agreement and that was the basis upon which the union has been putting these things on this morning.
This has of course been very controversial because the Association has been accusing the company of doing this very secretly, that there are middle of the night training sessions, not necessarily involving Qantas staffers, so all very secret squirrel it would seem. Qantas is denying a lot of that of course.
ELEANOR HALL: So how are the two sides reacting to this command, I guess, to negotiate?
KAREN PERCY: As yet, Qantas hasn't made a formal response, but we know that a spokesman and John Borghetti, the Executive General Manager this morning was denying this, saying look, they need… this is part of Geoff Dixon wanting to get more flexibility into the workforce and pushing for some 25 per cent of a more flexible workforce, whether that's casual or contract or part time or whatever.
So we haven't had any formal response yet to this particular ruling, but the union has had a mixed reaction. Here's the Flight Attendants Association of Australia's Michael Mijatov as he emerged from the hearing.
MICHAEL MIJATOV: They talk about actual work being here, that there's actual work. Well, if there is actual work, how come mystically and miraculously this work disappears after three months?
If there was actual work of course, they'd be activating their employment. Why aren't they activating their employment until the 18th of December or the 11th of December?
The answer is because there is no extra work, and they just want to abuse these people, you know, to actually use them in the most cynical way. They're desperate to get jobs these people and what they intend to do is actually terminate their employment and give it to people overseas.
I mean, if Qantas is serious they should come out now and say that they will give these people full time work. Of course they won't say that, because they're deceiving everyone.
KAREN PERCY: Are you disappointed that you didn't get access to the documents you would have liked?
MICHAEL MIJATOV: Look, we are disappointed, but nevertheless we'll get access to those documents one way or another. There's a lot of sympathetic people in Qantas as well, who are disgusted with what management are doing at the moment.
KAREN PERCY: The Commissioner called it a fishing expedition, though. Do you agree with that?
MICHAEL MIJATOV: No look, it wasn't a fishing expedition. We need to get all the information that Qantas is issuing to these people, so that we can actually see what's happening.
For example, we know for a fact they're not training them on all aircraft types and we say that's a breach of our EBA as well, because they have to have the ability to actually bid for work like all other flight attendants.
And we also say that, you know, we're hearing, for example, that the allowances that they're paying them whilst they're training here in Sydney may be below what's been agreed. We need to confirm that.
REPORTER: Are you planning on going on strike in December?
MICHAEL MIJATOV: Our members have been absolutely clear in terms of that they will fight for their job security and we will fight for our job security. This company has doubled its profits and we're not going to sit back and allow our jobs to be threatened, whilst they offshore up to 1,000 positions overseas.
KAREN PERCY: Now, a Christmas strike is going to be extremely unpopular. You're not going to get very much from the public out there, are you?
MICHAEL MIJATOV: We won't get backing from the public, but all I can say is that the public should understand that no strike is ever popular – obviously it's not. It inconveniences people. But the people actually causing this are Qantas and it's absolutely legitimate that Qantas flight attendants fight for their job security. Nothing is more fundamental.
ELEANOR HALL: Michael Mijatov, from the union there. Fighting words, Karen, looks like we are looking at prospects of strikes over Christmas?
KAREN PERCY: Absolutely, and we've got fighting words from Mr Mijatov, but also Qantas executives have been pretty hard line about this and I think that's going to be what sets the tone for this, is that there's going to be a lot of digging in of heels, because as we heard from Mr Mijatov, they're very much concerned about jobs.
So there will be discussions this afternoon, it will depend on how those discussions go. Commissioner Raffaelli says he is prepared to intervene if he needs to, but he's really hoping there will be some kind of negotiated settlement here… but playing hardball. And there is a lot of ill will here between the company and the flight attendants right now.
ELEANOR HALL: We'll be watching with interest. Karen Percy, our finance reporter, thank you.
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Join Date: Apr 2003
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Withdrawn...
Hi Guys...
Just thought I would let you know that I was contacted today by Qantas to "finalise my application in Melbourne", for Long Haul contract. I advised the lady that I would be withrawing my application as the conditions did not suit me......
I'm not going to take a risk and give up all my hard work in my current career for a contract which is outrageous... At the reruitment they said it would take 3 weeks to hear back, and it's now 9 weeks.... As hard as it was to refuse the contract it was the right decision for me and I'm glad I stuck to my guns and what I believe in.
To all those waiting, make sure you have a long hard think before you make a decision. To some it suits them, and that is great, however if you are in a position where you must give up a great deal, then be careful in your decision making.....
Good Luck Guys
SocialFlyer (Bck to being a "Wannabe
)
Just thought I would let you know that I was contacted today by Qantas to "finalise my application in Melbourne", for Long Haul contract. I advised the lady that I would be withrawing my application as the conditions did not suit me......
I'm not going to take a risk and give up all my hard work in my current career for a contract which is outrageous... At the reruitment they said it would take 3 weeks to hear back, and it's now 9 weeks.... As hard as it was to refuse the contract it was the right decision for me and I'm glad I stuck to my guns and what I believe in.
To all those waiting, make sure you have a long hard think before you make a decision. To some it suits them, and that is great, however if you are in a position where you must give up a great deal, then be careful in your decision making.....
Good Luck Guys
SocialFlyer (Bck to being a "Wannabe
)