Disarming doors before arrival on stand
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Disarming doors before arrival on stand
Does anyone work for an airline where the SOP is to disarm the doors before arrival on stand?
My airline is just introducing this SOP "to save time on turnaround"! Quite how many minutes they think this will save is beyond me.
My main concern is bending down (sorry Airbus crew, we're talking old fashioned girt bars here) whilst we break and corner as we pull onto stand. Falling on my bum or banging my head all seem quite likely.
Anyone have any thoughts?
My airline is just introducing this SOP "to save time on turnaround"! Quite how many minutes they think this will save is beyond me.
My main concern is bending down (sorry Airbus crew, we're talking old fashioned girt bars here) whilst we break and corner as we pull onto stand. Falling on my bum or banging my head all seem quite likely.
Anyone have any thoughts?
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Disarming doors
We had this SOP in my previous airline, too, but just before stopping, not whilst it's still turning. I imagine it would be the same in your airline. Can't really see how it would safe time on a turnaround...
From safety point of view it's less likely to injure (I am putting it nicely) someone if the door is opened (before you disarm it) by ground staff.
From safety point of view it's less likely to injure (I am putting it nicely) someone if the door is opened (before you disarm it) by ground staff.
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I dont give a flying 
what will happen to me when i refuse to carry out this new SOP, i've had two crew offloaded this month due to falling whilst securing their cabins on taxi runs, so until that seatbelt sign is off my lilly white a** is not budging of that seat!!! I have equally stong issues on the head counts being suspended to but thats another story and another pax running of the aircraft to the one next door!!
what will happen to me when i refuse to carry out this new SOP, i've had two crew offloaded this month due to falling whilst securing their cabins on taxi runs, so until that seatbelt sign is off my lilly white a** is not budging of that seat!!! I have equally stong issues on the head counts being suspended to but thats another story and another pax running of the aircraft to the one next door!!
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ezygalleyboy, disengaging the slide bar while still rolling used to be SOP with KLM. Standing bent over trying to fumble the bar out of the floor fittings when the pilots apply the brakes is not a real stable position to be in. 
After a few incidents and accidents with people falling exactly as you describe being afraid off, SOP was changed to disengaging after having come to a complete standstill.
Haven't had any trouble since.
After a few incidents and accidents with people falling exactly as you describe being afraid off, SOP was changed to disengaging after having come to a complete standstill.
Haven't had any trouble since.
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its our SOP to disarm whilst taxiing to the gate also, after we have turned in to approach the gate. havent come across any probs with any of our crew, but then again, our tarmac's arent particularly bumpy in NZ or AUS. its no worse than moving about the cabin during a bit of turbulance in my opinion
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Easybaby - i agree with you wholeheatedly, Slides should only be disarmed when the parking brake is set and the passenger signs switched off. Anything else aint going to save you any time on the turnaround, you'll still have to extend the steps' wait for the airbridge, wait for the ground steps. Disarming whilst the aircraft is moving sounds like a dangerous thing to be doing, not just for yourselves in terms of injury but also on the legal side in terms of responsibility to your passengers.
Heaven forbid that you should disarm the slides whist rolling up to the gate and a ground vehicle should hit an engine causing a fire and the required evacuation.
I know this seems like an extremely unlikely situation but they arenot going to think so when you are standing in court trying to defend your actions.
Why take the risk?
Heaven forbid that you should disarm the slides whist rolling up to the gate and a ground vehicle should hit an engine causing a fire and the required evacuation.
I know this seems like an extremely unlikely situation but they arenot going to think so when you are standing in court trying to defend your actions.
Why take the risk?
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BA do it
I know that doesn't mean it's right, as I have wondered for years what would happen if they had to commence an evac after disarm.
I know they prob. don't have any girt bars to get dirty with now, but in an emergency time is of importance and a few seconds fumbling with a girt bar could prove dangerous.
I don't think any carrier should disarm before shutdown
cheers
FF
I know they prob. don't have any girt bars to get dirty with now, but in an emergency time is of importance and a few seconds fumbling with a girt bar could prove dangerous.
I don't think any carrier should disarm before shutdown
cheers
FF
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Our procedures for disarming are the same as arming in Australia. Arming is to be done as soon as possible after pushback and disarming is to occur after exiting the taxiway, when the A/C is approaching the gate. Yes we do this all while the A/C is still moving. Personally I have a problem with disarming doors when stopped at the gate as many of you have suggested because of the fact that the seatbelt sign goes off once parked and pax are scrambling at the unopened door trying to get off. When I have had to disarm doors after stopping I am telling people to move back. If an emergency evac was to happen in the 5 seconds after the doors have been disarmed till coming to a stop, we are trained to re arm the necessary doors and perform the evac. No problem.
In defence of everyone though there is plenty of time to disarm doors while parked. It takes the bridge operator at least a minute to park it right and I have personally had delays of up to 20 mins trying to get the bridge in place.
Another point is if you wait till the A/C is parked to disarm your slide and there is an emergency, and you blow Left 1, you are probably going to kill everyone standing on the bridge, or at least fly them from gate 34 to gate 56 in no time!! I know ground staff can be testy at times but thats no way to show it!!!
In defence of everyone though there is plenty of time to disarm doors while parked. It takes the bridge operator at least a minute to park it right and I have personally had delays of up to 20 mins trying to get the bridge in place.
Another point is if you wait till the A/C is parked to disarm your slide and there is an emergency, and you blow Left 1, you are probably going to kill everyone standing on the bridge, or at least fly them from gate 34 to gate 56 in no time!! I know ground staff can be testy at times but thats no way to show it!!!
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As posted we disarm after the P/A from the flight deck "Cabin Crew disarm doors." This occurs when the aircraft is taxiing into the gate, so it is moving. I personally dont have a problem doing it this way. We have 737s so we have the old fashioned girt bar as well. I find it easier to crouch, rather than "bend over" as others have stated on here. Crouching gives you more support and balance and is better on your back as well. Try it
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Ezygalleyboy
well from your post it seems very likely that we are working for the same company
it is rediculous getting us to disarm the doors whilst in taxi. I came off a TLS today, short taxi - and the flight deck had to cut over our after-landing PA to ask us to do the doors. It is hardly worth bothering, as the seatbelt signs were off before we had disarmed. And I completely agree about hitting the deck whilst turning a corner - as that is exactly what i did today!! Might not be so bad on a AMS with a 15 minute taxi, but havent had the luxury to find out yet.
craic1510
well from your post it seems very likely that we are working for the same company
it is rediculous getting us to disarm the doors whilst in taxi. I came off a TLS today, short taxi - and the flight deck had to cut over our after-landing PA to ask us to do the doors. It is hardly worth bothering, as the seatbelt signs were off before we had disarmed. And I completely agree about hitting the deck whilst turning a corner - as that is exactly what i did today!! Might not be so bad on a AMS with a 15 minute taxi, but havent had the luxury to find out yet. craic1510
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Why would any airline have an SOP that disarmed doors before the jetway or stairs are moving into position at the exit door? And why would you wait until pushback to arm doors?
To disarm while the plane is still moving is not a safe or clever practise - there could be several reasons to evacuate then all the nice passengers would make a big gooey mess on the concrete.
To disarm while the plane is still moving is not a safe or clever practise - there could be several reasons to evacuate then all the nice passengers would make a big gooey mess on the concrete.
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When the means of entry/exit is removed
I work on 737s for a New Zealand based LCC.
Doors are armed following a p.a from the ISM "Flight Attendants prepare your doors for departure". The p.a is made when the means of entry/exit have been removed i.e, when the airbridge/stairs is pushed back.
Inbound, when the a/c has made a complete stop outside the terminal and the seat belt sign is turned off, then the ISM p.a's "Flight Attendants prepare your doors for arrival."
Doors are armed following a p.a from the ISM "Flight Attendants prepare your doors for departure". The p.a is made when the means of entry/exit have been removed i.e, when the airbridge/stairs is pushed back.
Inbound, when the a/c has made a complete stop outside the terminal and the seat belt sign is turned off, then the ISM p.a's "Flight Attendants prepare your doors for arrival."
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Hi all,
Our airline has the opinion that if the engines are running, there is the possibility of fire/impact/explosion and the doors should be armed in case anything should happen.
The senior cabin crew member Announces "Cabin crew, doors to automatic and cross check" As soon as the engines have started or pushback, whichever is sooner, likewise on arrival "Cabin crew doors to manual and X-check" as soon as the seat belt sign is switched off which is when the FD shut down the engines.
We operate on the BAe 146 so again no fumbling around on the floor
but we're also told that we shoulden't really be out of our seats until the sign goes off too.
Tri
Our airline has the opinion that if the engines are running, there is the possibility of fire/impact/explosion and the doors should be armed in case anything should happen.
The senior cabin crew member Announces "Cabin crew, doors to automatic and cross check" As soon as the engines have started or pushback, whichever is sooner, likewise on arrival "Cabin crew doors to manual and X-check" as soon as the seat belt sign is switched off which is when the FD shut down the engines.
We operate on the BAe 146 so again no fumbling around on the floor
but we're also told that we shoulden't really be out of our seats until the sign goes off too.Tri
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Ok, so we all agree or disagree that each of our carriers procedures are right or wrong, and that probably goes for the inconsistancy of our emergency procedures aswell. They are ALL different, maybe only slightly but still DIFFERENT.
Eventually this is going to be detrimental to the safety of all of our passengers and to our selves in the event of an emergency. Most airlines represented here are a member of IATA and adhere to very strict guidelines to be a part of IATA. Why then aren't our safety and emergency procedures uniform? Why does one airline have one policy and another a different policy? If one airline thinks this is the safest way of arming doors and it works why dont we all follow?
I have flown numerous times on other foreign carriers, thought that I knew the aircraft only to find out later from crew that their procedures for evac, ditch, fire etc are completely different to mine. With your airline you are conditioned to respond with YOUR training, not necessarily with the airline you are paxing on. I know for a fact that if I was paxing on a foreign airline and an incident happened i would automatically go into my airlines procedures, which could ultimately end in me shouting commands that the crew of the foreign airline wont understand. Example, a lot of airlines call doors by 11,24,21 instead of left one, right four, right one. I probably shouldn't shout these but if you crash what is going to come to your mind? Initial training.
My aim is to get all crew around the globe alligned with safety procedures. Does anyone agree with me??
Eventually this is going to be detrimental to the safety of all of our passengers and to our selves in the event of an emergency. Most airlines represented here are a member of IATA and adhere to very strict guidelines to be a part of IATA. Why then aren't our safety and emergency procedures uniform? Why does one airline have one policy and another a different policy? If one airline thinks this is the safest way of arming doors and it works why dont we all follow?
I have flown numerous times on other foreign carriers, thought that I knew the aircraft only to find out later from crew that their procedures for evac, ditch, fire etc are completely different to mine. With your airline you are conditioned to respond with YOUR training, not necessarily with the airline you are paxing on. I know for a fact that if I was paxing on a foreign airline and an incident happened i would automatically go into my airlines procedures, which could ultimately end in me shouting commands that the crew of the foreign airline wont understand. Example, a lot of airlines call doors by 11,24,21 instead of left one, right four, right one. I probably shouldn't shout these but if you crash what is going to come to your mind? Initial training.
My aim is to get all crew around the globe alligned with safety procedures. Does anyone agree with me??
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THe trouble with disarming the doors to early is that as soon as you get the P/A from the flight deck the pax see this as there chance to stand up collect handbaggage and try and win the first off the a/c award !!!! Have never understood why pax think that they are gonna get off any quicker by rushing the door before its opened, invariably it just slows things up!!
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Well the pax kinda do get off quicker. Say your in seat 60A of a Y Class A340, and Y class uses rowes 21 to 60 there would be about 20-30minutes difference between you deboarding the plane and the first pax. I am not sure if in different countries the airports use more than one jetty to deboard a flt, but at Heathrow only one jetty is used.
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Apparently it's to expedite the whole turnaround procedure - No. 1 (or 'Senior Cabin Crew Member' in Orangespeak) can get on with opening the door and lowering the airstairs as soon as the a/c has come to a stop.
I'm not convinced this SOP saves ANY time (what exactly is there to do between the seat-belt signs coming off and ground staff knocking on the door? answer :nothing), nor is it entirely safe in my opinion. I advance my opinion as current cabin crew with EZY.
The fact that Qantas etc. have been doing it for years without any problems does not make this SOP any safer in my opinion. Things can still go wrong whilst the aircraft is moving. I get the feeling the relevant dept at EZY has simply assumed because other reputable airlines have this SOP, then it must be sensible/safe, and therefore we must copy it.....
Another silly SOP is the lifting of selected seat covers after a particular aircraft has flown the day's final sector - we are asked to lift seat covers from 2 rows either side of our assigned areas of responsibility to check for bombs
Either we check under every single seat cover after every sector (impractical given our short turarounds) or we stop this silly charade once and for all.
I have no problems with SOPs that enhance safety and security but find it difficult to understand how this latest one increases either of the above.
I'm not convinced this SOP saves ANY time (what exactly is there to do between the seat-belt signs coming off and ground staff knocking on the door? answer :nothing), nor is it entirely safe in my opinion. I advance my opinion as current cabin crew with EZY.
The fact that Qantas etc. have been doing it for years without any problems does not make this SOP any safer in my opinion. Things can still go wrong whilst the aircraft is moving. I get the feeling the relevant dept at EZY has simply assumed because other reputable airlines have this SOP, then it must be sensible/safe, and therefore we must copy it.....
Another silly SOP is the lifting of selected seat covers after a particular aircraft has flown the day's final sector - we are asked to lift seat covers from 2 rows either side of our assigned areas of responsibility to check for bombs
Either we check under every single seat cover after every sector (impractical given our short turarounds) or we stop this silly charade once and for all.I have no problems with SOPs that enhance safety and security but find it difficult to understand how this latest one increases either of the above.