QF Business Bar.....and the Winner is QANTAS. (QF's 2004 Policy "SAFETY COMES LAST")
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QF Business Bar.....and the Winner is QANTAS. (QF's 2004 Policy "SAFETY COMES LAST")
For QF Flight Attendants -
Fri "The Australian"
Qantas wins on DIY bar service
By Drew Warne-Smith, Industrial relations
February 27, 2004
QANTAS business class passengers will be able to serve themselves alcoholic drinks on long-haul flights for the first time today after a ruling by the Industrial Relations Commission.
The airline's new "business bars" were established in September 2003, but flight attendants have been refusing to allow self-service amid concerns that aircraft safety would be jeopardised.
The Flight Attendants Association of Australia issued a directive last week enforcing the ban, causing the airline to launch industrial action to have the order retracted.
At a hearing on Monday, the IRC strongly recommended that the FAAA reconsider its industrial action, but the association refused.
At yesterday's subsequent hearing, the IRC ordered the FAAA to inform its members that passengers must be allowed unhindered access to the bar.
The assistant secretary of the FAAA, Michael Mijatov, said that flight attendants would heed the ruling, but an appeal would be considered over the next few days.
"We're disappointed in the finding. Our safety concerns were legitimate ones, they're serious concerns, and the fact that the commission has ordered against us doesn't mean those concerns go away," Mr Mijatov said.
Passengers allowed to congregate and drink at the bar would greatly increase the risk of accidents, air rage, underage drinking and drink-spiking, the FAAA has said.
The association also believes the bar flouts responsible service of alcohol requirements and will be outlawed under draft Civil Aviation Safety Authority regulations to be implemented in July.
The airline's internal risk-assessment documents would be sought before a final decision on an appeal was made, Mr Mijatov said.
A spokeswoman for Qantas welcomed the decision, but denied that passengers had been refused access to the self-service bar since the airline relaunched its business class facilities on international flights last year.
Qantas has denied the self-service bar is a security risk and described the FAAA's actions as unjustified and unreasonable.
Japan Airlines, Cathay Pacific and Virgin Atlantic operate similar business bars.
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Fri "The Australian"
Qantas wins on DIY bar service
By Drew Warne-Smith, Industrial relations
February 27, 2004
QANTAS business class passengers will be able to serve themselves alcoholic drinks on long-haul flights for the first time today after a ruling by the Industrial Relations Commission.
The airline's new "business bars" were established in September 2003, but flight attendants have been refusing to allow self-service amid concerns that aircraft safety would be jeopardised.
The Flight Attendants Association of Australia issued a directive last week enforcing the ban, causing the airline to launch industrial action to have the order retracted.
At a hearing on Monday, the IRC strongly recommended that the FAAA reconsider its industrial action, but the association refused.
At yesterday's subsequent hearing, the IRC ordered the FAAA to inform its members that passengers must be allowed unhindered access to the bar.
The assistant secretary of the FAAA, Michael Mijatov, said that flight attendants would heed the ruling, but an appeal would be considered over the next few days.
"We're disappointed in the finding. Our safety concerns were legitimate ones, they're serious concerns, and the fact that the commission has ordered against us doesn't mean those concerns go away," Mr Mijatov said.
Passengers allowed to congregate and drink at the bar would greatly increase the risk of accidents, air rage, underage drinking and drink-spiking, the FAAA has said.
The association also believes the bar flouts responsible service of alcohol requirements and will be outlawed under draft Civil Aviation Safety Authority regulations to be implemented in July.
The airline's internal risk-assessment documents would be sought before a final decision on an appeal was made, Mr Mijatov said.
A spokeswoman for Qantas welcomed the decision, but denied that passengers had been refused access to the self-service bar since the airline relaunched its business class facilities on international flights last year.
Qantas has denied the self-service bar is a security risk and described the FAAA's actions as unjustified and unreasonable.
Japan Airlines, Cathay Pacific and Virgin Atlantic operate similar business bars.
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I would sooooo be like....captain can you keep pressing the 'fasten seatbelt button' all the time!
I have a bar in my train...and trust me folks if it wasn't for those frequent stops...someone is going to get hurt real bad!
I have a bar in my train...and trust me folks if it wasn't for those frequent stops...someone is going to get hurt real bad!
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Why do QF bother making their applicants have responsible service of alcohol certificates if the pax can just go upto the bar and serve themselves??? How do they police it??? I don't quite understand what it is? Is there a cabin crew member who serves out the drinks and the pax come upto the bar and ask, or do the pax just take what they want and go back to their seats????
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absolutely agree Sarah! self service of booze is asking for trouble!
We have soooooooooooooo much trouble on regional flights with alcohol its not funny. Not long before it happens on longhaul then. I did a 1hr 45 min regional flt today and we took $400 on the bar - & I promise we were serving responsibly and monitoring! Imagine if the same people had access to a self service bar! ha! what a joke! they wouldn't have been able to walk down the stairs cause they would have taken total advantage & been too pi$$ed.
Great work QF! You're doing a fantastic job keeping the safety of the passengers and crew in your utmost care!
We have soooooooooooooo much trouble on regional flights with alcohol its not funny. Not long before it happens on longhaul then. I did a 1hr 45 min regional flt today and we took $400 on the bar - & I promise we were serving responsibly and monitoring! Imagine if the same people had access to a self service bar! ha! what a joke! they wouldn't have been able to walk down the stairs cause they would have taken total advantage & been too pi$$ed.
Great work QF! You're doing a fantastic job keeping the safety of the passengers and crew in your utmost care!
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Cant see to many front bar drunks travelling in bussiness class myself.
Whats the difference getting served or serving youself.
You probably have more trouble with the yobbos down the back when they are refused a drink than you would with one pissed guy in bussiness class.
Plus ,if you see a group of the wild type staying at the bar knocking it down you can still cut their booze off .
Only 100% safe way is no booze at all ,then you still get a few halfwits as well.
There are still problem flights--------soccer fans in europe--------footy trips in Aus etc ,but ive been on a lot of flights and never seen any trouble.
Got pickeled myself on a few ,never had a drink on others and even boarded the plane after a 6 hour delay the worst for wear.but im one of those happy drunks.
Then we have people that are on a high on drugs or get panic attacks etc
Ban booze ,drug and alcohol check before boarding and you will get the troublesome type-----thats the world we live in.
The self service bar is a selling point.Must admit it would win me over mainly to the fact i wouldnt have to stay seated for ever and when feel like standing up for an hour i can without getting in everyones way.
Whats the difference getting served or serving youself.
You probably have more trouble with the yobbos down the back when they are refused a drink than you would with one pissed guy in bussiness class.
Plus ,if you see a group of the wild type staying at the bar knocking it down you can still cut their booze off .
Only 100% safe way is no booze at all ,then you still get a few halfwits as well.
There are still problem flights--------soccer fans in europe--------footy trips in Aus etc ,but ive been on a lot of flights and never seen any trouble.
Got pickeled myself on a few ,never had a drink on others and even boarded the plane after a 6 hour delay the worst for wear.but im one of those happy drunks.
Then we have people that are on a high on drugs or get panic attacks etc
Ban booze ,drug and alcohol check before boarding and you will get the troublesome type-----thats the world we live in.
The self service bar is a selling point.Must admit it would win me over mainly to the fact i wouldnt have to stay seated for ever and when feel like standing up for an hour i can without getting in everyones way.
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The problem is a bit like a buffet at a cheap restaurant - you get the responsible ones who don't overload the plate and then you get the ones who go "bu@@er it, it's free" and walk back the Eiffel Tower on their plate....
Same situation here I imagine, except its grog and there's not a lot you can do to monitor it if its self serve unless someone is plainly out of their skull....
Oh well, be interesting to see what happens....
Same situation here I imagine, except its grog and there's not a lot you can do to monitor it if its self serve unless someone is plainly out of their skull....
Oh well, be interesting to see what happens....
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I soooo fully can't wait to be pax on a flight with a bar! i'm bringing my shaker....cocktails time!!! We'll be having long island iced teas upfront!!
Skip am I the Eiffel tower type?
Skip am I the Eiffel tower type?
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I will play the Devil's advocate here. On our planes there's that kind of open bar in Business and First Class. First Class passengers very seldom use it, they usually ask drinks to be taken to their seats. The bar is used more by Business Class people in need of a leg stretch, or a little snack (there are fruits, cakes and sandwiches too). Honestly, it's never happened on one of my flights, or that I've heard of, that someone took advantage the way someone fears they would. You should consider that the bar is always manned, because at least one CC is in the galley at all times and the 2 bars are one each side of the Business Galley. It's more likely that people come and ask for a coffee or an espresso. The times when I've witnessed someone drinking too much, they were always calling from their seats.
In Economy we have a similar bar policy, but only non-alcoholic drinks are on self-service, while for alcoholic drinks you have to ask a CC (but they are free anyway, we don't sell alcohol on AF).
I'd say the important thing here is that that kind of bar shouldn't be left unattended. It would be interesting to hear the experience of CC of other companies such as Virgin that have open bars.
In Economy we have a similar bar policy, but only non-alcoholic drinks are on self-service, while for alcoholic drinks you have to ask a CC (but they are free anyway, we don't sell alcohol on AF).
I'd say the important thing here is that that kind of bar shouldn't be left unattended. It would be interesting to hear the experience of CC of other companies such as Virgin that have open bars.
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VS have had their bars on-board now for a number of years, and given the volume of pax flown, have had very few problems. The key factor, as has been alluded to, is that CC must remain in attendance and this is the model for VS.
The main issue here is that the CC MUST be willing and able to refuse alcohol, even to a full revenue pax/gold card/celeb/whoever. It's when this authority is not exercised that problems can occur (Vinnie Jones, Courtney Love, etc.)
The main issue here is that the CC MUST be willing and able to refuse alcohol, even to a full revenue pax/gold card/celeb/whoever. It's when this authority is not exercised that problems can occur (Vinnie Jones, Courtney Love, etc.)
