Cabin crew landing the a/c?
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Cabin crew landing the a/c?
Hi all
I was thinking the other day of a theoretical scenario. I was wondering if anyone knew of an occasion whereby for whatever reason one of the cabin crew or passengers who had no experience flying large aircraft had to land the aircraft.
Ifso
What was the outcome?
What type of aircraft was it?
What sort of flying experience if any did this person have??
Thanks in advance
Dave
I was thinking the other day of a theoretical scenario. I was wondering if anyone knew of an occasion whereby for whatever reason one of the cabin crew or passengers who had no experience flying large aircraft had to land the aircraft.
Ifso
What was the outcome?
What type of aircraft was it?
What sort of flying experience if any did this person have??
Thanks in advance
Dave
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Of course, all this is assuming the cabin crew have super portable hydraulic cutting jaws and an accumulator to get through the reinforced, bullet proof door to the flight deck 
I blame it on George Zipp !
I blame it on George Zipp !
Ohcirrej
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"We need to get this man to a hospital"
"A hospital, what is it doctor?"
"It a big white building, with patients in it, but that's not important right now!"
"A hospital, what is it doctor?"
"It a big white building, with patients in it, but that's not important right now!"
PPRuNe Handmaiden
"Coming in low is a part of every text book landing" 
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Not exactly ‘large’ aircraft, but here are two examples:
PA31
PA28
PA31
NTSB Identification: MIA96IA094 . The docket is stored in the (offline) NTSB Imaging System.
Nonscheduled 14 CFR Part 135: Air Taxi & Commuter
Incident occurred Wednesday, March 06, 1996 in CHARLOTTE, NC
Probable Cause Approval Date: 2/28/97
Aircraft: Piper PA-31-310, registration: N7451L
Injuries: 1 Fatal, 4 Uninjured.
During flight, one of the passengers (a single engine rated pilot) was seated in the right front seat. After arriving at the destination, the pilot initiated an ILS approach; however, before landing, a full deflection of the localizer CDI was noted, and the pilot executed a go-around. The pilot rated passenger stated that about 15 seconds later, the pilot released the control yoke, rested against his own seat back, and began to have convulsions. The pilot rated passenger began flying the airplane and advised ATC of the situation. The controller vectored the flight for landing, and the pilot rated passenger was initially unable to release the autopilot. At one point during the flight, the pilot's hand pulled the left engine mixture control to the idle cutoff position, but engine power was restored after the pilot rated passenger repositioned the mixture control. The pilot rated passenger landed the airplane; however, during the landing roll, he did not have access to the airplane's brake system. The airplane rolled off the left side of the runway onto grass, but was not damaged. Subsequently, the pilot was pronounced dead. After a post-mortem examination, the cause of death was listed as coronary atherosclerosis/hypertensive heart disease. According to the pilot's wife, he had no previous complaints suggestive of heart disease.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this incident as follows:
fatal incapacitation of the pilot due to a heart attack.
Nonscheduled 14 CFR Part 135: Air Taxi & Commuter
Incident occurred Wednesday, March 06, 1996 in CHARLOTTE, NC
Probable Cause Approval Date: 2/28/97
Aircraft: Piper PA-31-310, registration: N7451L
Injuries: 1 Fatal, 4 Uninjured.
During flight, one of the passengers (a single engine rated pilot) was seated in the right front seat. After arriving at the destination, the pilot initiated an ILS approach; however, before landing, a full deflection of the localizer CDI was noted, and the pilot executed a go-around. The pilot rated passenger stated that about 15 seconds later, the pilot released the control yoke, rested against his own seat back, and began to have convulsions. The pilot rated passenger began flying the airplane and advised ATC of the situation. The controller vectored the flight for landing, and the pilot rated passenger was initially unable to release the autopilot. At one point during the flight, the pilot's hand pulled the left engine mixture control to the idle cutoff position, but engine power was restored after the pilot rated passenger repositioned the mixture control. The pilot rated passenger landed the airplane; however, during the landing roll, he did not have access to the airplane's brake system. The airplane rolled off the left side of the runway onto grass, but was not damaged. Subsequently, the pilot was pronounced dead. After a post-mortem examination, the cause of death was listed as coronary atherosclerosis/hypertensive heart disease. According to the pilot's wife, he had no previous complaints suggestive of heart disease.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this incident as follows:
fatal incapacitation of the pilot due to a heart attack.
NTSB Identification: MIA84IA247 For details, refer to NTSB microfiche number 26404A
Incident occurred SEP-04-84 at DADE COLLIER, FL
Aircraft: PIPER PA-28-161, registration: N8330G
Injuries: 1 Fatal, 1 Uninjured.
THE NON-RATED PASSENGER LANDED THE ACFT AFTER THE PLT SUFFERED A HEART ATTACK & BECAME TOTALLY INCAPACITATED. DURING THE LANDING, THE NOSE GEAR COLLAPSED.
Probable Cause
Incapacitation(heart attack)..Pilot in command
Incident occurred SEP-04-84 at DADE COLLIER, FL
Aircraft: PIPER PA-28-161, registration: N8330G
Injuries: 1 Fatal, 1 Uninjured.
THE NON-RATED PASSENGER LANDED THE ACFT AFTER THE PLT SUFFERED A HEART ATTACK & BECAME TOTALLY INCAPACITATED. DURING THE LANDING, THE NOSE GEAR COLLAPSED.
Probable Cause
Incapacitation(heart attack)..Pilot in command
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There have been cases of P1 incapacitation on larger airliners before now, I think Britannia or Air 2bob had one on a 757 not that long back.
P2 lands the ship, no big dramas.
P2 lands the ship, no big dramas.
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i'm just a PPL so never expect to be in this situation - however i once had to tell the cc on a flight we were about 2 mins from touchdown - I knew the approach + where we were, was sat in the back row and she was dawdling about in the galley - the usual 'crew seats for landing' call wasnt given.
Also I try to grab the emergency exit row when i fly - not just for the extra legroom, but to know that i have a chance of getting the thing open if it comes to it. Nothing winds me up more than pax in that row who have no idea how to open the exit and dont listen to the safety announcement or read the card - I always make the point of asking them if theyve read the card + know what to do....
Also I try to grab the emergency exit row when i fly - not just for the extra legroom, but to know that i have a chance of getting the thing open if it comes to it. Nothing winds me up more than pax in that row who have no idea how to open the exit and dont listen to the safety announcement or read the card - I always make the point of asking them if theyve read the card + know what to do....
Not a hope in **** of this thread remaining serious, but seriously :-). Why not have a canned ditching profile built into the FMS for the location of the nearest body of water. It would be flown in "managed mode" by the execution of a few secret code FMS keystrokes, sent to the aircraft by flight dispatch or the VP Flt Ops. Or from the senior cabin attendant.
Cunning Artificer
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Not a pilot just an avionics specialist, but if it was a simple case of simultaneous myocardial infarctions taking out both P1 and P2 I could manage a 757 or 767 without any trouble.
However if it was a case of the pilots refusing to continue after a Cessna had been through the windscreen, I'd need a competent CSO to assist by ripping the P5 Panel out with her bare hands and chucking it out of the hole.
However if it was a case of the pilots refusing to continue after a Cessna had been through the windscreen, I'd need a competent CSO to assist by ripping the P5 Panel out with her bare hands and chucking it out of the hole.
PPRuNe Knight in Shining Armour
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I've done it.
My captain died of a heart attack after departure from Gatwick, I had zero experience on the L1011. Auto pilot and auto land no probs...
OK I was in a sim doing an MCC but it wasn't that hard.
ducks and awaits incoming
My captain died of a heart attack after departure from Gatwick, I had zero experience on the L1011. Auto pilot and auto land no probs...
OK I was in a sim doing an MCC but it wasn't that hard.
ducks and awaits incoming
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This very topic was discussed at length here:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=63654
I think the concensus was that the average joe would stoosh it into the nearest solid object. I must say I agree with said analysis.
As an aside, wonder if, in grand old days of yore, the flight engineer would have been able to land it had both pilots been taken out by, say, a cyanide-laced copy of the Times? Any thoughts?
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=63654
I think the concensus was that the average joe would stoosh it into the nearest solid object. I must say I agree with said analysis.
As an aside, wonder if, in grand old days of yore, the flight engineer would have been able to land it had both pilots been taken out by, say, a cyanide-laced copy of the Times? Any thoughts?