QF To MAM
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: ---
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PBR Streetgang,
I am more than happy to take anything they offer me, whether it be casual, fixed term or anything for that simple reason, it is a foot in the door! Whether they offer permanent positions to the MAM casuals ten years down the track, I am more than happy to wait. I read someones post who got a call in regards to the same thing but for November training and they turned it down as they said "Their wish is to be a Flight Attendant, but their passion is to work for Qantas not MAM". These days, you just have to take what you can get!
However, I am a little confused as to what they are doing now. After we got the call and faxed back the form we had to sign etc. What do you think happens now? Do you think there is a fair chance the people who got called will be offered a position? I am just wondering, am I to sit and wait until they call back or send a letter or what? I am not going to get my hopes up until it's there plain and simple. I just was interested as to where we stand at the moment? I know no-one can answer that question and maybe only time will tell, but just interested as to what you thought?
Your info is appreciated.
I am more than happy to take anything they offer me, whether it be casual, fixed term or anything for that simple reason, it is a foot in the door! Whether they offer permanent positions to the MAM casuals ten years down the track, I am more than happy to wait. I read someones post who got a call in regards to the same thing but for November training and they turned it down as they said "Their wish is to be a Flight Attendant, but their passion is to work for Qantas not MAM". These days, you just have to take what you can get!
However, I am a little confused as to what they are doing now. After we got the call and faxed back the form we had to sign etc. What do you think happens now? Do you think there is a fair chance the people who got called will be offered a position? I am just wondering, am I to sit and wait until they call back or send a letter or what? I am not going to get my hopes up until it's there plain and simple. I just was interested as to where we stand at the moment? I know no-one can answer that question and maybe only time will tell, but just interested as to what you thought?
Your info is appreciated.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have a friend that recently turned down a position with MAM for Sydney, she was on the QF Shortlist. Before she turned it down she asked if she would still be on the QF Shortlist and she was assured by QF HR that she would be. Well 3 days later she received an e-mail advising that she was no longer on the QF Shortlist and thanked her for her application to Qantas and just to add insult to injury advised that she must wait 6 months from the date of the e-mail before reapplying to QF. I read the e-mail and couldnt believe what I was reading. But then again thats QF in a world of their own sometimes. I have heard from other people that they have remained on the shortlist even after turning down MAM so go figure!!
Making the decision to take a casual position with MAM would be difficult. There is no guarantee of hours or income, and during the downturn when their was surplus crew MAM casuals were getting no work.
MAM is still a contract company and QF are under no obligation to look after the crew employed by MAM. Having said that though, the FAAA do pursue the interests of MAM crew, but I suppose that is why they are members.
The situation could very well occur where people off the shortlist (that turned down or weren't offered MAM) are offered fixed term or even permanent positions with QF next year, how would you feel about your decision then? Just because you work with MAM will not guarantee you a better position in the future, people off the street could very well walk into these jobs if and when it happens and you could be left behind at MAM, as there is no way Qantas will take all MAM casuals into fixed term or perm positions before recruiting externally.
You are between a rock and hard place, go for it if you can afford to do it financially and afterall it is a foot in the door but dont go in expecting you will get preference over the next external recruitment or even people that remain on the shortlist because you probally wont.
Making the decision to take a casual position with MAM would be difficult. There is no guarantee of hours or income, and during the downturn when their was surplus crew MAM casuals were getting no work.
MAM is still a contract company and QF are under no obligation to look after the crew employed by MAM. Having said that though, the FAAA do pursue the interests of MAM crew, but I suppose that is why they are members.
The situation could very well occur where people off the shortlist (that turned down or weren't offered MAM) are offered fixed term or even permanent positions with QF next year, how would you feel about your decision then? Just because you work with MAM will not guarantee you a better position in the future, people off the street could very well walk into these jobs if and when it happens and you could be left behind at MAM, as there is no way Qantas will take all MAM casuals into fixed term or perm positions before recruiting externally.
You are between a rock and hard place, go for it if you can afford to do it financially and afterall it is a foot in the door but dont go in expecting you will get preference over the next external recruitment or even people that remain on the shortlist because you probally wont.
Last edited by GalleyHag; 16th Dec 2003 at 13:21.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So what is casual?
So can someone enlighten us, what exactly is 'casual' at QF?
I've always had the impression it was life on 24 hour call, pay only for duties operated, and being on call, makes it impossible to do another job. No benefits, no leave, no nothing.
How often do casuals get called up? What kind of income do casuals average? Sounds like something for uni students who can skip a few classes when need be.
I'm lucky to be flying as a permanent with another airline, and about to become a CSM/Trainer with another. There's very little reason to give that up to become a casual if my shortlist phone call comes with a MAM transfer opportunity.
That's not what I offered my skills to QF for.
I've always had the impression it was life on 24 hour call, pay only for duties operated, and being on call, makes it impossible to do another job. No benefits, no leave, no nothing.
How often do casuals get called up? What kind of income do casuals average? Sounds like something for uni students who can skip a few classes when need be.
I'm lucky to be flying as a permanent with another airline, and about to become a CSM/Trainer with another. There's very little reason to give that up to become a casual if my shortlist phone call comes with a MAM transfer opportunity.
That's not what I offered my skills to QF for.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: ---
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
GalleyHag
Thanks for the info! It is bit of a tricky spot. I am lucky enough to be able to survive as a casual. no guarantees in this industry, but fingers crossed everything works out for everyone
Thanks for the info! It is bit of a tricky spot. I am lucky enough to be able to survive as a casual. no guarantees in this industry, but fingers crossed everything works out for everyone
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yellow Rocket..
"MAM" casual at Qantas is basically what you described. I dont know much about it but from the casuals Ive flown with here is some info.
They are on 24 hour call, however they advise the company when they want to work, its called available days or something. When they work, they get paid very well. There hourly rate is higher than my 6th year permanent base hourly rate, however a casual does not get the allowances I get and the staff travel, seniorty and other fringe benefits etc. They do get DTA.
Still, if they get alot of work in a particular fortnight, they can do very well financially.
Next month will be interesting. I flew with a casual recently who has been offered a block (roster) for next month. Apparently our casuals have been offered blocks for January, which means they get basically what is left over after flying has been allocated according to bidding etc.
Most casuals I know or work with, are very happy, some even not interested in being permanent. They are good workers
Im no expert so if I got any of the above wrong please correct me. Maybe someone on this Forum can enlighten us?
Over and out
"MAM" casual at Qantas is basically what you described. I dont know much about it but from the casuals Ive flown with here is some info.
They are on 24 hour call, however they advise the company when they want to work, its called available days or something. When they work, they get paid very well. There hourly rate is higher than my 6th year permanent base hourly rate, however a casual does not get the allowances I get and the staff travel, seniorty and other fringe benefits etc. They do get DTA.
Still, if they get alot of work in a particular fortnight, they can do very well financially.
Next month will be interesting. I flew with a casual recently who has been offered a block (roster) for next month. Apparently our casuals have been offered blocks for January, which means they get basically what is left over after flying has been allocated according to bidding etc.
Most casuals I know or work with, are very happy, some even not interested in being permanent. They are good workers
Im no expert so if I got any of the above wrong please correct me. Maybe someone on this Forum can enlighten us?
Over and out
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: 20 Degrees SW of the Sea of Tranquility
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Advice : Part 2
I guarantee, all casuals would rather have Bodum's sixth year income over their current arrangement in a heartbeat. Yes, given, they may do very well in any given month, however, with the uncertainty, they are loathed to spend it 'just in case' next month is lean and in this job you never know.
There is a time limit on how long you can last as a casual and those that are 'very happy' being casual usually have husbands who have secure, well paid positions. The time limit I spoke of is an individual thing and it applies financially, emotionally and psychologically.
Some of you will tough it out and accept the MAM position. Some of you will then be made permanent, others of you won't. Some of you will decline the MAM position and request to remain on the QF waitlist only to see candidates from subsequent recruitments successful before you. Some of you will request to remain on the QF waitlist only to be subsequently sent the thanks but no thanks letter, some of you will remain on the waitlist for an eternity. A much worse fate.
No matter your own individual experience you will all end up resenting the hand that feeds you and that is neither a good thing for you or for Qantas. But always remember this, no matter where you end up, in life, you are always exactly where you are meant to be at any given point in time.
Good Luck!
I guarantee, all casuals would rather have Bodum's sixth year income over their current arrangement in a heartbeat. Yes, given, they may do very well in any given month, however, with the uncertainty, they are loathed to spend it 'just in case' next month is lean and in this job you never know.
There is a time limit on how long you can last as a casual and those that are 'very happy' being casual usually have husbands who have secure, well paid positions. The time limit I spoke of is an individual thing and it applies financially, emotionally and psychologically.
Some of you will tough it out and accept the MAM position. Some of you will then be made permanent, others of you won't. Some of you will decline the MAM position and request to remain on the QF waitlist only to see candidates from subsequent recruitments successful before you. Some of you will request to remain on the QF waitlist only to be subsequently sent the thanks but no thanks letter, some of you will remain on the waitlist for an eternity. A much worse fate.
No matter your own individual experience you will all end up resenting the hand that feeds you and that is neither a good thing for you or for Qantas. But always remember this, no matter where you end up, in life, you are always exactly where you are meant to be at any given point in time.
Good Luck!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: ---
Posts: 594
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heard today from someone who was asking the Perth based crew about this situation who had some interesting info. Again this is all rumour, but this info is apparently direct from the Perth crew and this QF F/A thought they'd tell me. Perth crew have said that they are aware that people have had calls in regards casual positions based in Perth and have said that if you have received a telephone call then you are in and will be contacted at short notice for training in January. Those of you who have turned down the position will not be kept on the shortlist for any position in the future. Please don't hold me to any of this as this IS all rumour and who know's how they're operating? Hope it turns out in everyone's best interests!
GOOD LUCK!
GOOD LUCK!
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi
I haven't any employment news for the shortlisters out there, but I received the following news by email, which says that travel for 2004 is expected to be quite strong. Hopefully this will result in QF needing to use more shortlisters. Goodluck guys!
5m inbound arrivals forecast for next year
Australia is gearing up for a stronger inbound recovery than first predicted, with the latest figures from the Tourism Forecasting Council (TFC) indicating international visitor arrivals will exceed 5 million next year.
This would be the first time Australia had recorded positive growth in the past three years.
The council report said Australia's recovery efforts strengthened in the September 2003 quarter and the outlook for the December quarter indicated continued improvement as a result of the Rugby World Cup influx.
“Since the last forecasts in May 2003 the outlook for the global economy has improved noticeably,” the report said, “and this has impacted on predictions for tourism in 2004. All of Australia's top four markets (New Zealand, Japan, UK and US) are expected to show an increase in visitor numbers next year.”
The report showed New Zealand, Australia's largest tourist market, continued to be a strong performer with an increase in tourist arrivals this year and further growth expected in 2004.
The UK market had also been extremely resilient, recently boosted by the Rugby World Cup, the report said.
The TFC is predicting steady, continued growth from the UK and other markets in Europe through to 2012.
Within the Asian markets, the council has forecast growth of 10 per cent as a result of pent-up demand created by SARS.
“China in particular is expected to show explosive growth in the next 12 months, which will be fostered by the opening up of Australia to greater numbers of Chinese travellers and increased air services from this market,” the report said.
I haven't any employment news for the shortlisters out there, but I received the following news by email, which says that travel for 2004 is expected to be quite strong. Hopefully this will result in QF needing to use more shortlisters. Goodluck guys!
5m inbound arrivals forecast for next year
Australia is gearing up for a stronger inbound recovery than first predicted, with the latest figures from the Tourism Forecasting Council (TFC) indicating international visitor arrivals will exceed 5 million next year.
This would be the first time Australia had recorded positive growth in the past three years.
The council report said Australia's recovery efforts strengthened in the September 2003 quarter and the outlook for the December quarter indicated continued improvement as a result of the Rugby World Cup influx.
“Since the last forecasts in May 2003 the outlook for the global economy has improved noticeably,” the report said, “and this has impacted on predictions for tourism in 2004. All of Australia's top four markets (New Zealand, Japan, UK and US) are expected to show an increase in visitor numbers next year.”
The report showed New Zealand, Australia's largest tourist market, continued to be a strong performer with an increase in tourist arrivals this year and further growth expected in 2004.
The UK market had also been extremely resilient, recently boosted by the Rugby World Cup, the report said.
The TFC is predicting steady, continued growth from the UK and other markets in Europe through to 2012.
Within the Asian markets, the council has forecast growth of 10 per cent as a result of pent-up demand created by SARS.
“China in particular is expected to show explosive growth in the next 12 months, which will be fostered by the opening up of Australia to greater numbers of Chinese travellers and increased air services from this market,” the report said.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its all about....
Bodum, and PBR, thanks for taking the time to post your knowledge of casual conditions.
Several hundred 'exceptional' (as Lesley G.Rant would say) people who applied for, and were successfully assessed as, permanent QF f/a's, are waiting for positions they are not going to be offered. Yet, some are being contacted for positions as casuals, and some are not. Those who turn down the offer for casual, we are told, may be scrapped altogether.
It never ceases to amaze me, that anyone who criticises poor performance in airline HR finds their application taken no further, or there is a litany of excuses...SARS? Not. Iraq? Not. Bin Laden? Not. 9/11? Not.
Those who took redundancy in the Company's voluntary redundancy drive, now find that their positions were not overstaffing the Company, as they had been led to believe. QF is eagerly running back to back training for Adecco (de facto permanent) and MAM casuals.
Qantas HR can take a slap in the face. It deserves it. The Airline advertised for 'permanent, fixed term and casual flight attendants' in the ad I answered. It has not delivered.
Guess the missing link here is that in the hurry to reach Dicko's casualisation target, QF has not put in place any process from which merit based selection for permanent crew will be assessed in future, now that the career path does not include external applicants.
Many who applied for permanent, or fixed term, and who now accept offers as casuals, will do so on the basis of a phone conversation with a distant voice at QCC4. They will inevitably decide to accept the job assuming that hard work may lead to a permanent role.
Not.
Where is a new HR process formalising this new career pathway - external to casual, casual to permanent?
If it does not exist, the Company should just say so instead of playing on people's optimism.
QF recruitment and manpower planning is becoming as shonky as the low cost carriers QF crows foul about - and will deliver the same results. Sadly, no matter how dressed up it will be in Morrissey, pay peanuts - get monkies.
Several hundred 'exceptional' (as Lesley G.Rant would say) people who applied for, and were successfully assessed as, permanent QF f/a's, are waiting for positions they are not going to be offered. Yet, some are being contacted for positions as casuals, and some are not. Those who turn down the offer for casual, we are told, may be scrapped altogether.
It never ceases to amaze me, that anyone who criticises poor performance in airline HR finds their application taken no further, or there is a litany of excuses...SARS? Not. Iraq? Not. Bin Laden? Not. 9/11? Not.
Those who took redundancy in the Company's voluntary redundancy drive, now find that their positions were not overstaffing the Company, as they had been led to believe. QF is eagerly running back to back training for Adecco (de facto permanent) and MAM casuals.
Qantas HR can take a slap in the face. It deserves it. The Airline advertised for 'permanent, fixed term and casual flight attendants' in the ad I answered. It has not delivered.
Guess the missing link here is that in the hurry to reach Dicko's casualisation target, QF has not put in place any process from which merit based selection for permanent crew will be assessed in future, now that the career path does not include external applicants.
Many who applied for permanent, or fixed term, and who now accept offers as casuals, will do so on the basis of a phone conversation with a distant voice at QCC4. They will inevitably decide to accept the job assuming that hard work may lead to a permanent role.
Not.
Where is a new HR process formalising this new career pathway - external to casual, casual to permanent?
If it does not exist, the Company should just say so instead of playing on people's optimism.
QF recruitment and manpower planning is becoming as shonky as the low cost carriers QF crows foul about - and will deliver the same results. Sadly, no matter how dressed up it will be in Morrissey, pay peanuts - get monkies.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can someone briefly explain to me what or who is MAM and it's role in relation to QF. I'm here for a year from the UK and have over 9years flying experience. I'd like to return to flying, whether back in the uk or if things work out, then here in Australia. Having said that, it wouldn't break my heart if it fate decided otherwise.
I get the impression that getting into an airline here is much more difficult than in the UK.
Thanks a lot in advance.
I get the impression that getting into an airline here is much more difficult than in the UK.
Thanks a lot in advance.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: In an airspace near you!
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MAM = Maurice Alexander Management
MAM is a labour hire company that has a contract with Qantas to supply casual staff mainly for domestic flying (as I understand - open to correction).
There has been plenty of debate on MAM, pro's, con's etc - a search will reveal a whole heap of varying opinions, advice and information....
Yellow Rocket - its a frustrating wait I agree, but don't write it all off just yet - nothing's certain - you know what its like, things change almost weekly as does the speculation.... Ride it out, I have a feeling it may all just work out ok.... (then again, it may not and we're all back at square 1, but hey.... )
There has been plenty of debate on MAM, pro's, con's etc - a search will reveal a whole heap of varying opinions, advice and information....
Yellow Rocket - its a frustrating wait I agree, but don't write it all off just yet - nothing's certain - you know what its like, things change almost weekly as does the speculation.... Ride it out, I have a feeling it may all just work out ok.... (then again, it may not and we're all back at square 1, but hey....
)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London
Age: 41
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
All I can say is that we've all made it to the short list, so we must all be good enough for what an airline is looking for, so let's just keep our heads up!
Those of you with an EU passport, why not apply to BA? I did, and it certainly paid off...I start my training on the 29th! At least you'll still be on the QF short list, and who knows what will happen in the future, they might just call us all and offer us what we applied for, if not, at least we know we've got what it takes!
All that said though, it made me sick when I read about that Adecco company! Here we were waiting for positions and they gave them all to non-Australians who weren't even on a short list!
As I said in another post...Qantas, the spirit of Australia...Yeah right!!!!! Let's just hope that these Adecco and MAM positions will help secure the jobs of the Australians already working full time for QF!
Those of you with an EU passport, why not apply to BA? I did, and it certainly paid off...I start my training on the 29th! At least you'll still be on the QF short list, and who knows what will happen in the future, they might just call us all and offer us what we applied for, if not, at least we know we've got what it takes!
All that said though, it made me sick when I read about that Adecco company! Here we were waiting for positions and they gave them all to non-Australians who weren't even on a short list!
As I said in another post...Qantas, the spirit of Australia...Yeah right!!!!! Let's just hope that these Adecco and MAM positions will help secure the jobs of the Australians already working full time for QF!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for that info Ozskipper
I flew as crew in the UK for 9years, including BA so I'm looking for a change now, possibly something here if and when my residency status changes at the appropriate time. If not, then as I'm on a career break with BA right now, I'd consider going back there if things didn't work out here, only time will tell.
I flew as crew in the UK for 9years, including BA so I'm looking for a change now, possibly something here if and when my residency status changes at the appropriate time. If not, then as I'm on a career break with BA right now, I'd consider going back there if things didn't work out here, only time will tell.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: ???
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The more time goes on I'm really beginning to wonder whether QF is really a company I want to work for. Its so fantastic to hear they're recruiting o/s AGAIN when there are people waiting on the shortlist - myself included. Geoff Dixon sucks right up the a$$!
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surely with all the positive announcements regarding tourism and strong flight demands by the general public again, QF will need more people soon. All the forecasts are for growth in tourism.....surely QF will have to start using their shortlisters soon and also do an external recruitment again.
Is QF L/H overstaffed at the moment?
Is QF L/H overstaffed at the moment?
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There will be another 50 going from short haul to long haul on 27th Jan that is 100 in the past 3 months or so, add to that the people that took the package during the down turn and the people on leave without pay etc and you can see why MAM are putting through schools of casuals.
They say long haul is short of crew so I suppose that is why more off shore crew are being recruited. I can see a pattern here and it all goes back to Geoff Dixons statement on "The Future of Work" which he put out mid year that stated that he wanted the QF workforce to have a bigger proportion of casual and contract labour and what better way to do it than through external companies which will have contracts in place that "they cant break" so if and when there is another down turn again guess who are the first to go QF Staff.
The Adecco crew did not loose their jobs during the down turn and QF did not offer to cancel the contracts to save Aussie jobs instead they offered Voluntary Redundancy so now when they need crew they just go through contract companies to get them.
Lets hope 2004/05 financial year will see a change in policy.
They say long haul is short of crew so I suppose that is why more off shore crew are being recruited. I can see a pattern here and it all goes back to Geoff Dixons statement on "The Future of Work" which he put out mid year that stated that he wanted the QF workforce to have a bigger proportion of casual and contract labour and what better way to do it than through external companies which will have contracts in place that "they cant break" so if and when there is another down turn again guess who are the first to go QF Staff.
The Adecco crew did not loose their jobs during the down turn and QF did not offer to cancel the contracts to save Aussie jobs instead they offered Voluntary Redundancy so now when they need crew they just go through contract companies to get them.
Lets hope 2004/05 financial year will see a change in policy.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi 604chic
The website is www.mam.net.au you can then submit your info in the Employment section.
I have done this already a couple of months ago but haven't heard anything since.
Good luck to you.
The website is www.mam.net.au you can then submit your info in the Employment section.
I have done this already a couple of months ago but haven't heard anything since.
Good luck to you.