@ cart tart

do you think you would have passed the medical if you had a colourvision problem?

Hi everyone, I had a call last week from VB regarding a telephone screening to progress to an assessment centre. The lady said I would know if I had progressed in the next week to two weeks. Is this the normal process. She asked me exactly what was on my application, nothing new which I thought was odd! No target selection questions, just reconfiming info on my application.

Does anyone know how many & when assessment centres are going to be. I have the big wait now. Thanks!!

Telephone Screening
 

Hi Gloria,

I work for Virgin and recently flew with one of the recruiters who told me part of the "improved recruitment" process for Cabin Crew is a initial phone screening interview to verify the details of your online application and query what you have written in there. From this point they will then short list who they invite to the interview day.

I think its a way of culling out people who place inaccurate information on their application forms, and I can tell you there are PLENTY of those. Word of advice guys, be as honest as possible with dates, work history etc, they are looking very closely at these nows.

I believe they will be recruiting all year round, so don't worry to much about how many assessment as there are a number of opportunities..

Good Luck all

Looks like it's finally coming...
 

Thanks to everyone that sent me info about the VS Exchange. I am applying, selling my apartment and coming Europe!!!!! well I have to get in first but I want it more than anything at the moment.

On another note and this is to current crew and maybe it's BNE only but looks like they have finally figured out a way to cut overnights. I have gone from 12 in Jan to 1 in Feb. I am not worried cause I am over the long four sector days min rest at a hotel and straight back to another four sector day. I have a whole week in Feb of operate BNE - SYD and pax home and that is it. Granted the money will suck but I always knew this would eventually happen.

Everyone else's rosters the same? backlash is going to be huge judging by the amount of rosters all over walls requesting trip swaps all of a sudden.

Thoughts?

Same with me...1 overnight for the entire month of Feb. Not happy! Perhaps they could of warned us that this was going to happen? Yes I realise they say that overnights are never guaranteed, but we have been having on average 10 a month for years, and now to severly cut the back like this is terrible! There will be a backlash. Crew are not impressed...another downer to crew morale. I don't have a problem doing day trips, I do have a problem with the money however! Lets hope its just a one off for Feb and has something to do with them playing around with the bidding system.

Hi Guys,

I'm Melbourne based and from what I have seen most crew still have the overnights here, not sure what is going on in Brisbane. Is it like that for all crew? However someone did tell me that February is usually the quiestest month and there is always a drop in flights etc, so perhaps it may have something to do with that.. Not sure what is going on...

If there has been a sudden drop in overnights and crew get all day trips i can pretty much see sick leave going up as crew wont accept the sudden cut. Let's wait and see what happens before we get to carried away...

Cheers SocialFlyer

Crew morale is set at a very high level.. by crew. Alot want alot for nothing. Overnights will come and go. Crew are only guaranteed a base wage. The overnights are allocated by the rostering department to make sure that the planes are operating with limited time on the ground.

As for those crew who placed their mortgages for houses etc saying they average $2k a fortnightly have to take responsibility for their own actions. When there are more crew, the probability of overnights will drop per a person. Some get more and some less. The schedules for Feb are no different than the ones for March albeit a couple syd-mel/bne flights due to aircraft checks in CHC.

Be ready for more dissapointment if your expect a golden egg, with KRONOS system in place it will provide the VB the best cost effective, streamline flight organisation in comparison to the old Sabre.

Sorry to put gloom on... thou people need to consider that things will change. Chances are those who got one overnight this Feb will get 8 next month.


:rolleyes:

KittyBlue,

I totally understand where you are coming from with your post above but I also think Virgin has a responsibility and obligation to its employees to let them know that there will be changes to pairings and rosters which in turn means reduction in overnights. To date the communications in relation to the new KRONOS system has always been about "Crew will now get what they want", "Create your roster" etc.... There has never been a word of a new efficiency system resulting in the reduction of overnights.

I think its obvious that overnights are not guaranteed, but when you go from having 14 to having none thats a slight shock to the system. I guess the coming months will be interesting to see the outcome. Let's just wait and see...

KittyBlue - There may be minimal differences in the schedules but there are major differences in the rosters. Most of the red-eye flights have gone to the newly formed SYD base. A large number of BNE crew have rosters built on 2 sector return day trips - mostly operating only 1 of those sectors also. (I've got 10 of them)

That was explained in no uncertain terms at the VRD I attended, and I wholeheartadly support the comment, but any change needs to be communicated and equitable. The people commenting on their rosters haven't lost 1 or 2 overnights per month - many of us have lost 6 - 10. If ALL crew had their overnights reduced by a similar amount (raw number or percentage) then it would be equitable. To print off a roster with 0 (zero)overnights and sign-ons before 0700 every day of the month whilst the person next door prints off a roster with 12 overnights and midday or later sign-on's is not confidence or morale boosting.

The argument that there are crew wanting rosters like that has been used, and I agree that there are, however no-one advised that there would be rosters of this type built - and no option was provided to nominate yourself for a roster like that.

That is the hope and prayer of those that got minimal overnights. Are you suggesting tho, that it's a random/cyclic thing? a software glitch? a new fairness distribution? or just some astrological alignment that will adjust things? Here's a suggestion to check the 'tolerance' of all the crew population - next month the overnight distribution should be inverted - take the number each crew member got this month from the common 10/11 overnights, and build a roster with that many for them next month.

Off on a slight tangent now...

KRONOS promises to give us the bids that we want - so we are encouraged to bid for what we want. To this end, I'd like to see the 'Specific Flight' bid option modified to only show flights that will actually be available to the person bidding for it. This month I wasted my points bidding for a flight that has always been, but for February wasn't even given to BNE crew :\

Guys KRONOS is about reducing overnights... why do you think there was such a push to bring it in... also based on the leave available for BNE crew, there's a massive overstaffing issue up there ... meanwhile MEL based rosters seem to be much better than usual... got at least 12 o/n here which means a marked improvement than ever before averaging no more than 9ish.

I hear the Ejet crew are getting even more overnights and very good trips (ie. 2 sector days, 12-14 overnights, big layovers) although they aren't getting any leave - that's the way it goes I guess - but very good money! Seems to all the new routes - CBR-OOL, CBR-SYD, SYD-PQQ, SYD-ABX and the increase of a daily SYD-ROK and SYD-MKY to a smaller E70 will see these guys get bigger layover opportunities anyway... so go do the EJet haha!

Once SYD is set up properly... think it may even out a bit maybe 5/6 overnights per base... on the upside... V Australia is on the way... gaurenteed overnights!

As for E-Jet crew about time they got some overnights and decent trips again. Melbourne crew got the better deal with the "Ambassador" disaster. DM's and DR himself sold it to them as the program for high performing crew, which they got and in typical Virgin style there was no information or transperancy about how they would be introduced or what the the rosters would look like.

Obviously some for commercial in confidence reasons but all the people who took a leap of faith and trusted management got was and I am talking about BNE crew was four months of day trips. My friends roster was BNE - HBA four days in a row followed by two BNE - ADL returns over and over again.

'That is the hope and prayer of those that got minimal overnights. Are you suggesting tho, that it's a random/cyclic thing? a software glitch? a new fairness distribution? or just some astrological alignment that will adjust things? Here's a suggestion to check the 'tolerance' of all the crew population - next month the overnight distribution should be inverted - take the number each crew member got this month from the common 10/11 overnights, and build a roster with that many for them next month.'

I'd say better option is to ask for some money for the tooth fairy!! IMO that the fill in the big blanks and settle the rest with what ever crew are left. I would like it to be evenly distributed to those who want overnights. Alas I dont think that is gonna happen.

Feb roster for some Bne crew gave them a paxing sector back to bne for hotel overnight then pax them back to eg. syd the following day and repeated that cycle for the 4 days. Its all just frustrating to say the least!! GOOD LUCK TO US!!! I hope these issues are ironed out so its flair for all!

I would say that from a management point of view, they would like to get rid of overnights as much as they can. They cost money. I wonder how much of a saving they are making by opening the Sydney base?

By the way, is there much talk of crew going applying for Qantas? That might throw another spanner in the works if too many crew jump ship!

Some news I heard was that ON's haven't been reduced at all..... Of course given that a Sydney base has opened they have had to pay for it some way so I guess long term ON's will reduce! I was also told that the reason for the BNE - SYD then PAX home was due to the Sydney crew being assigned 2nd Sec BOC flights for nearly EVERY trip....! To remove these and help out the Sydney guys they had to put these ordinary day trips in for BNE crew.

On another note I have looked up the Kronos website and materials.... basically the new PBS / roster optimiser doesn't actualy determine the number of ON's. That is to do with the Kronos Pairing system that the planners have been using for some time now.

PS. I came from QANTAS..... The grass is greener this side... let's hope it stays that way!

OSBOUND - You come from MAM darls, not Qantas. Big difference between MAM and Qantas Full-time. MAM got the leftover flying that full-timers didnt want remember ?

I think QF Full-time and DJ Full-time are very similar. QF crew are getting max 14-18 overnights per months similar to DJ.

The only thing greener about DJ for you is that you are full-time-let's not confuse everyone with your statement.

I know people who want to leave QF for the new V Australia. I also know people leaving DJ for Qantas L/H ( QCCA )

The grass is always greener.

Hey Guys,

Interesting information about the overnights, i'd say the Sydney rosters had alot to do with it as they were actually prepared before Mel and Bris, hence we were left with the left overs...

As for DJ crew going to QF I believe a number of crew have interviews next week but as in 2 minds about pursuing or holding out for V Australia. I guess for many of the crew the fact that you now have to resign from VB to work for V Australia means they are willing to resign to do LH for either V Australia or Qantas. Besides they are only allocating 35% of V Australia positions to VB crew, hence with 1500 crew for VB opportunities are limited for the start up.

I've applied for both V Australia and QF Long Haul. Only decide if I am successful...

GoodLuck guys

How is max. duty hours calculated when AL is allocated?
 

Looks like my post fell victim to moderation :confused:

Can any VB crew please explain how our maximum duty hours are calculated during a month where annual leave is allocated?

31 (a) of the EBA states that cabin crew will typically be rostered 125 duty hours per month and will not be rostered or work more than 140 hours per month.

31 (c) states that maximum hours will be pro rata the remainder of that roster period where annual leave is taken.

If rosters are typically built with a 125-130 hour target per month, then how is maximum duty hours calculated during a month where leave is allocated? Is it prorated on 125-130 hours or prorated on the full limit of 140 hours?

I can't seem to find a pattern during the months I have been allocated leave and am wondering whether I am calculating it incorrectly as the duty hours I have been rostered in some months are much higher than the maximum duty hours allowable from my calculations.

Sonique- REEEEEEEEEOOOOOW...dont take it too personal babe, each entitled to our own opinion!


Well yesterday I got my JOB OFFER from Virgin Blue!! Now my next stress is training...any tips on how to get the most out of it, or get through it all, even just what to expect?

And on the overnights thing, it makes sense with a sydney base there would be more staff and less demand on existing staff for o/nites, but i guess waiting and seeing is all we can do....I just cant wait to have a roster!oh and my uniform!yay!

Congratulations Sara Fanta,

You will enjoy working for Virgin its a fun culture and altough it can be tiring at times, we generally do have a good time.... With respect to overnights, I would not worry too much, it will take them some time before they ever phased them out, with expansion as it is, I can only see them increasing overnights to cope with the parking off aircrafts in ports other than MEL, SYD, BSN...

In regards to training, all the advice I can say is take LOTS of vitamins, prepare your body for stress as that is a natural reaction... You just have to focus for the 5 weeks and keep your head in the books.. They will tell you all about it, but basically you have to know everything WORD FOR WORD... And yes at the start it all seems rather scary and you think you will never learn it, but trust me the trainers drill it into your head and you will sleep and eat commands, equipment, SOP etc.... Most importantly dont forget to try and have some fun in training and it is part of the job you will always remember and you will make some friends for life out of it..... Also get your camera ready and take LOTS of pics...

Good luck and if you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask, more than happy to help..

Regards SocialFlyer

Hi vb_girl, My understanding is that it is based on the number of hours that the Planners aim to roster your group and base for. ie. if it is 120hrs then you will be prorated against 120 etc. You could try emailing cc.rosters to find out more info?.. or CCOS?

Yourflightattendant,

I believe there actually is NO reduction in overnights. It's more to do with the Sydney base creating the change overnights and what has been given to them. In actual fact I believe resourcing have been using the KRONOS system for some time now, the introduction of KRONOS as part of our bidding has nothing to do with the reduction of overnights.

In relation to your comments about the EBA, let's not get into a discussion about that, otherwise we would need to draw out all the details of the EBA that was presented to us.... Meal allowances vs overnights may be an adavantage for day trips, but lets face it with a NO vote at 89% I think there were alot of issues with the EBA that was negotiated.

It's the first month since the new bidding system that this has happened, let's wait and see what happens in the coming months before we all start predicting....

Does anyone have a Sydney based roster that they could show here? or PM one to me?

:)

OSbound: thanks for the reply. I guess I'll have to email them as it may be a changing target. This would explain why duty hours fluctuate so much between rosters where AL is taken.

yourflightattendant: interesting perspective. We'll need to keep an eye on our rosters over the next few months to establish some kind of pattern but this may be difficult with all the changes taking place (Tiger, Sydney base, more E-jet deliveries and crew being cross-trained, new PBS).

It will be another year before another EBA is drafted, which gives the company plenty of time to reassess and reduce its cost-base in response to changing market conditions. It will be interesting to see how it all works out but hopefully, they keep us informed about any 'major' changes that may impact us.. :ooh:

Vb roster fatigue
 

hey vb girl
- came across the thread and I just spoke with a very tired friend who is VB CCrew and I am amazed at the provisions.

My friend has just done a 4 day trip - Days 1 & 2 were each >8 hours @ 4 legs. Day 3, picked up at hotel @0530 then fly 3 legs the last being coast to coast - arriving at hotel at 1400 (local) for "rest" before being picked up at 2230 on the same day to operate return coast to coast, back of clock.

That's less than 8 hours rest in between two sign ons in the one day!!!!!!!! (closer to 7 hours rest if you consider having a shower and something to eat) - aparently VB can do this legally and she said the FAAA does not believe this duty is a fatigue issue as it is within the current EBA.

With rosters like this it sounds like you really do need a new EBA now before someone gets hurt or has a serious accident.

Is this typical of what VB crews are being askd to do?

[- I couldn't imagine our cabin crew doing it as they get 15 hours min rest following a duty > 8 hrs, under 8hrs the min rest is 12 hours]

airtags - there are no pairings at DJ that are what you've just stated - they can't sign on twice in one day - the BOC PER/East Coast is normally conducted after approx 23hrs rest.

overhere: - thanks for the confirmation - good to hear it's not a regular -

I believe the paring was in fact an ad-hoc build following the chaos arising from the adverse wx in SYD the other evening. Have an email with the flt nos & times so it did happen - the real question is why didn't the FAAA back the crew?

VB when challenged has apparently offered a taxi voucher for the crew to go home on completion - but only one way - they have to make their own way back to collect their cars at their own cost later.....nothing like duty of care eh!..........(for the record, our lot are not any better)

airtags - 32 (e) of the VB EBA states:
Cabin Crew will not sign-on twice in the one day at home base, unless the member of Cabin Crew elects to do so.

It appears that signing on twice in one day away from home base is legal :uhoh:

However, I'm unsure about the rest period. The crew's sign on would have been at 2300 if they were picked up at 2230, but minimum rest is 10 hours, so sign off could not have been later than 1300 on that day. Do you know what time they signed off?

Incidentally, your rest periods (duty > 8hrs = 15 hrs rest, futy < 8hrs = 12 hrs rest) sound fantastic! Don't ever bargain them away!

Rest periods at VB are:
Away from home - min. 10 hrs (regardless of previous length of duty)
Home base - 15 hrs (can be reduced to 12 hrs due to disruptions)

Anyway, I'm still curious about how they build a roster with annual leave because a normal roster is built to 120-130hrs BUT if it includes leave, then it seems that the roster is built to a prorated target calculated from 140hrs.

No wonder I've felt overworked during the months I've taken leave! Very sneaky!

airtags I have heard about this story from another source and cant work out why the crew would have said yes to any of it.
If your feeling fatigued then the cs and cc just call it and let crewing sort it out. You get paxed straight home but its better than not being able to cope in any sort of emergency.
If crew don't know the minimums of the EBA then they will get asked to things that are illegal. I would like to know if the company will support you if anything goes wrong once you have accepted something outside the EBA?

yourflight attendant:

MEL base has been getting heaps of overnights, 10+, for the last few months. FEB roster is down a little but there are 2 less days in the month + SYD base + less annual leave??? = more crew available for the roster.
MEL crew are regularly getting BNE overnights of up to 24 hours, possibly because we wont go sick whereas BNE crew not living near the airport will go sick for the 4am-5am signons. I am still not seeing many day trips either and haven't for a while.

Lastly at the end of the day there is nothing we can do about the overnights. You cant budget your life on them as they are a bonus if we get them in the first place. I applied for E-jet and found out o'nights would be a minimum which suited me but obviously not you. I don't know why you didn't know this before applying as it was common knowledge in MEL.

I have a feeling we'll see things go back to normal next month...I think recruitment has slowed down a bit for now also so new crew coming online will ease up for a little while...or I could be wrong!

How are we finding our new crew bags? I think they look really good and help give us a more professional look, but they dont fit much in them! Other than that I like it.

vb girl, wirgin blue & et al;

thanks for the responses and PM's appreciated the prompt info and it encouraged a very despondent crew - as you may have worked out I'm up in the front end for another airline but a very good friend is VB CC and what they were pushed to do with this pattern was indeed a black mark on the airline. (The pattern I queried in the forum for her came as a result of a 'rebuilt trip' following the adverse Wx in SYD.)

VB after being pushed by the union and the operating crew, finally gave in and provided them taxi vouchers but essentially the issue still remains that on a multi day pattern away from home you can be directed to have reduced min rest and then operate BOC across the timezones.

It is not ideal and f'instance just would not be tolerated by the QF crews that I work with, but unfortunately the VB EBA (like all other EBA's, inc the QF) is less than acceptable under these kind of operating conditions.

Your query about responsibility "if something was to happen" is covered off under the indemnity provisions however if it was to be a REALLY bad day in the blue sky office I would imagine the coroner would go to guns quickly when looking at what the crew was pushed to do.

We all essentially suffer the same issue that a 12 hr min rest (or in VB case 10 hr) is eroded by late tpt pick ups, traffic to the hotel and early pick ups prior to sign on (notwithstanding noisy hotels, rooms near lifts, pi*ssed noisy bogans in hotel corridors, half a mile walk to get healthy food and a 20 minute queue to check out before pick up and of course no isolated crew rest facilities onboard etc.,)

Our airline employers (VB, QF, J* etc all have some great platitudes about fatigue ( I love the VB book on this .....it is such a corporate wank) and while some CC are stupid enough to p*ss up & party on till the wee hours before sign on, the reality is that the productivity of saving a few hours on a 3 or 4 trip by screwing the crew just isn't worth the risk of an accident. Like the wombat crew that party all night in slip ports - sadly it'll take a serious accident before reality bites and a more sensible remedy is adopted.

In the meantime suggest you all start emailing the FAAA and start building a business case for a rethink on the min rest and the related provisions - that includes encouraging the party wombats to wake up to themselves(Aircrew RBT/drug testing is now a reality) after all it's of little use batting for better rest if a stupid few compromise the argument.

To the very brain dead VB DM from BNE that sent me the 'other' PMsg ..... pls spare me/us the company lines of "being a 'specialist' (?)LCC and the need to cut conditions to maximise returns while still providing a unique positive customer experience" - I suggest you see how far that kind of Branson B.S gets you when there is a accident - or if you are really serious, then publicly stick your head up now and give better support to your hardworking crews. Maybe you should roster yourself on the same pattern as a famil as a first step.

Can I add we are a New World Carrier not LCC which means things like genuine fatigue management need to be looked at from the front line, not from office staff who have flexi hours to come and go as they please. Some of them have been CC and CS's but probably worked for a completely different beast that VB is now.
Listen to your staff they are leaving because the grass is greener.

Have Virgin started to sort out what crew from VB are going across to V Australia yet. Are VirginBlue still recruiting or are they waiting to see how many new ones are needed to fill the holes. Can anyone tell me is the Sydney base both short & long haul? I really want to get into Virgin, how good are they going to be in another 12 months.
Regards

Gloria approx 35% of LH can transfer from SH if they wish. It is my understanding it will be a SYD base as the training is going to be in SYD.
The SYD SH base has started recruiting and with SYD being the busy port it would only make sense that they have a base as big as MEL and BNE.
As QCCA is also recruiting in SYD for LH this makes for interesting times for anybody wishing to become a FA.
MEL base is training two courses a month at the moment and crew are still complaining about being overworked.
Crew I have spoken to in MEL arent interested in LH as nobody wants to move to SYD just to fly SYD-LAX (if that is what is going to be).
I wish the recruitment people in SYD all the best as its going to be hard to find enough of the right people imho.

me thinks with a flawed already process in place for qcca getting mam to qantas starts, means virgin shall have minimal probs. getting interest from good contenders. seems qantas may have gotten to big for their polished boots. cheers gigs

Application question...
 

Hi everyone!!
Quick question, if I want to apply for L/H or V Australia how do I go about that? Do I just apply under the normal Cabin Crew Team Member in their website or is it somewhere else? Or are they not even open for applications yet??
I'm from Sydney by the way!

And would the crews be separated into LH and SH or is it all as one? And, could a current crew just give me a ballpark figure or roughly what you guys earn in say a fortnight, after taxes??

Sydney Recruitment
 

A friend went along to a VBRD in SYD last month and made it through to the end of the day.
After about 3 weeks was advised that she had progressed to the next stage and would be contacted in 2 weeks. A couple of days later was called by VB to advise SYD recruitment had been placed on hold for the time being. They said they would keep her on file for 6mths. The very next day her referee's were called?????
Anyone know what is happening with the SYD base??
She has also been offered QCCA, would pref Virgin though.

Hi futureflier... V Australia for internal applicants will start in the next month, external not long after that. First aircraft arrives September, commercial services start Oct/Nov.

Take home fortnightly after tax between $1700-$2100 for a MEL based S/H Cabin Crew member at the moment. Easily averaging $2000 at the moment - but this takes into account upto 7 overnights per pay which could drop to zero at the drop of a hat - about $90 tax free per overnight so you'll minimum $1400 per fortnight WORSE CASE SCENARIO.

Thanks!
 

Thats great!
I've just registered my interest on their website so I'll just wait and see what happens...
I wonder what kind of flying the SYD base would be doing??

Hi Futureflier

Good luck with your application.

At the moment Sydney based crew with 737 endorsement only are doing mainly back of clock flying which is red eye trips including SYD-BNE-PER. Then PER-BNE. I believe most of the 737 crew got alot of overnights. The E-Jet crew are mainly doing day trips with no overnights in the month. It's really hard to tell what kind of flying Sydney base will do until it has expanded more and there are more than a 100 or so crew. At the moment Melbourne and Brisbane crew are still overnighting in Sydney so we are doing lots of their flying.

If you do get in it will be a very exciting time to join the Sydney base as it will be entirely new with respect to crew, crew rooms (currently being renovated), base managers, training centre etc... Get in now, work hard and you will progress quickly.

Well done to all in Sydney I know LOTS of ground crew who have been waiting for ages to fly as well as externals based in Sydney. Have a ball..

Cheers
SocialFlyer