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Originally Posted by Bobby G
(Post 10547956)
733 driver - you're putting too much effort into the analysis. Who cares which runway. The wind was calm (no good) it's a marginally long enough runway and every semi-smart corporate driver knows exactly what happened. They pranged it.
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"it's a marginally long enough runway"
I have 3500+ hours/2000+landings in the straight 680. If the 5000ft distance given above is correct, than its not "marginally long enough". (as several people in this thread have already pointed out!) You can plant the C680s into 3500ft COMFORTABLY if you know what you doing even at high weights and regarding to Vref close to touchdown: this airplane slows down really really hard with full flaps and idle power. E.g. If you are at max speed for full flaps (175KIAS) at 2.5 nm and youre putting em down and stay in idle, you crash and burn in FRONT of the runway. She flies much like a KingAir 200 with props in high RPM and full flaps at this stage, if that gives you an idea. What is a nono at least in the straight 680 is force her down on a higher speed (Vref plus say 5 or 10) AND deploy speed brakes in quick movement without pushing the yoke forward. That CAN get you airborne again. (speedbrakes are manually extended and have a distinct nose up effect). This MIGHT have played a role. What adverse role does a DA in CAVOK play ? |
Originally Posted by atakacs
(Post 10547709)
no access to the "pro" version but what kind of reading do we have for previous landings (maybe not that aircraft but I'm sure other c680 have landed here)? |
Well so no ADS-B sleuthing then 🙃 |
Originally Posted by His dudeness
(Post 10548077)
"it's a marginally long enough runway"
I have 3500+ hours/2000+landings in the straight 680. If the 5000ft distance given above is correct, than its not "marginally long enough". (as several people in this thread have already pointed out!) You can plant the C680s into 3500ft COMFORTABLY if you know what you doing even at high weights and regarding to Vref close to touchdown: this airplane slows down really really hard with full flaps and idle power. E.g. If you are at max speed for full flaps (175KIAS) at 2.5 nm and youre putting em down and stay in idle, you crash and burn in FRONT of the runway. She flies much like a KingAir 200 with props in high RPM and full flaps at this stage, if that gives you an idea. What is a nono at least in the straight 680 is force her down on a higher speed (Vref plus say 5 or 10) AND deploy speed brakes in quick movement without pushing the yoke forward. That CAN get you airborne again. (speedbrakes are manually extended and have a distinct nose up effect). This MIGHT have played a role. What adverse role does a DA in CAVOK play ? |
DA (in this case, I think) is Density Altitude, not Decision Altitude. |
Originally Posted by His dudeness
(Post 10547032)
Private ops -> not required. Saves a lot of money not to have to buy and maintain it.
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DA (in this case, I think) is Density Altitude, not Decision Altitude. |
Originally Posted by His dudeness
(Post 10548880)
Guess you´re right. Still the number don´t change much between 2000 and 4000ft in a 680. Add between 110 and 150 ft to the 2000ft numbers (the ones I posted are already taking temp into account, what was the pressure then?)
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Junior was at the controls, maybe. ;-)
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What adverse role does a DA in CAVOK play ? |
Increased TAS over standard day, about +5kts in this case |
I think you’re on to something here. If you’re trying to save an unstable approach (fast and a little high) with flight idle and just rolling trim back, you’ll find that you’ve trimmed the elevator into a position where you don’t have enough elevator to flare. Couple this with the fact that you have to manually deploy the spoilers upon touch down, things can get out of hand quickly. |
Originally Posted by 787PIC
(Post 10546849)
A redneck worshiped by millions of NASCAR crazies with MAGA hats!😎 Perhaps intimidated his pilots to take this brand new high performance jet into an airport (0A9) that is barely OK for a small prop aircraft. (1600’ altitude and about 4500’ long runway, with a displaced threshold, surrounded by high terrain.) Not sure if he owned this jet or chartered? Either way, a lot of low time inexperienced 135/91 pilots are intimidated to fly into these small airports because it is convenient for the owner or renter! |
GF,
As soon as I read the words Redneck, NASCAR crazies, and MAGA hats.....he surrendered all credibility. Like airline pilots never run off the end of runways either.:= |
Originally Posted by SASless
(Post 10551209)
GF,
As soon as I read the words Redneck, NASCAR crazies, and MAGA hats.....he surrendered all credibility. Like airline pilots never run off the end of runways either.:= Sadly becoming all to common these days... |
Like airline pilots never run off the end of runways either. Anyhuw, I´m just very glad it did not happen to me, not a position one wants to be in... |
NTSB preliminary report makes for interesting reading. After the 2nd "bounce" pilot initiated a go around. When that didn't look good he decided to put it back on the runway. LG broke on 2nd bounce
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Originally Posted by OldCessna
(Post 10553187)
NTSB preliminary report makes for interesting reading.
Accident Number: ERA19FA248 |
Originally Posted by OldCessna
(Post 10553187)
NTSB preliminary report makes for interesting reading. After the 2nd "bounce" pilot initiated a go around. When that didn't look good he decided to put it back on the runway. LG broke on 2nd bounce
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