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-   -   Netjets Europe Conditions (https://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc/612431-netjets-europe-conditions.html)

Miserable Old Git 20th Aug 2018 15:44

Netjets Europe Conditions
 
With the announcement by Netjets Europe of the recruitment of 50 first officers, this should help out with many of your questions:

https://www.kuraaviation.com/docs/Ne...FAQ%202018.pdf

If you are interested, apply here:

https://www.kuraaviation.com/netjets/

Sarah Juliana 3rd Sep 2018 02:36

RE: Any known upcoming positions for Flight Attendants/Inflight Representatives?
 
Hope it's ok to post here - just wondering if you may know of any of the above mentioned positions coming up? A requirement for more First Officers makes me think there possibly will be?

Any information would be gratefully received.

Kind regards, Sarah

redsnail 3rd Sep 2018 12:13

There's a round of interviews happening at the moment. Don't wait for an announcement, go to the NetJets website and apply online. Make sure you apply to Europe and not the US (unless of course, you want the US site). Think carefully about what you put on your application, in other words, don't rush to fill it in.
If you know someone on the inside so to speak, have a chat to them.

https://jobsite.netjetseurope.com/se...Sociedad=0001#

AFrotary 3rd Sep 2018 20:00


Originally Posted by redsnail (Post 10240173)
There's a round of interviews happening at the moment. Don't wait for an announcement, go to the NetJets website and apply online. Make sure you apply to Europe and not the US (unless of course, you want the US site). Think carefully about what you put on your application, in other words, don't rush to fill it in.
If you know someone on the inside so to speak, have a chat to them.

https://jobsite.netjetseurope.com/se...Sociedad=0001#

Can you tell anything about the pilot requirements at Netjets? Are they inviting tons of people for a few positions or are they actually struggling to get enough candidates?

redsnail 3rd Sep 2018 21:53

All I know is that there's 50 FO positions available. As for the number and quality of applicants I don't know. Kura's handling the recruitment. My response you quoted was for Sarah as she was asking about Flight Attendant/ISR positions.
The advice of being careful what you write, think about who you're applying to and what you can bring to the table so to speak. If you're in private aviation, you'll know that our job is a lot more than just flying. :) The above links should help. :)

I must warn, if you are looking for a fast upgrade, NetJets is not the place.

EatMyShorts! 4th Sep 2018 09:55

If you are looking for a lot of money, it won't be your place either.

shithappens 22nd Sep 2018 19:22

If you are looking for a pension it is not the place either, you will not get a viable one at NetJets, so count on putting pension investment money aside from any salary offered. What they offer is a gross salary, it is up to employees to cover pension from that sum.

dirk85 22nd Sep 2018 20:04

So its not the company for career prospects, money, or pension, and history of redundancies... I fail to understand why anyone would consider this job if you guys put it like this.

For the good training and the half decent roster? That doesnt cut it I am afraid.

shithappens 22nd Sep 2018 20:22

The advert did state that upgrade was expected within 6 years on the document that I read from NetJets, however I do not know how the company can predict this, given the number of Command ready First Officers waiting for upgrade since more than ten years already. As Dirk and others say: don’t join NetJets expecting a quick upgrade, a decent salary, or a pension worthy of that name. They are offering 6 on, 5 off and that is the main incentive.

Bottom line:look around. Do not get tricked by the salary, look at the package value. That means looking at the TOTAL COST OF EMPLOYMENT, not the salary. NetJets is social phobic, this means that if they offer you 100€, the cost to NetJets is circa €115. If Lufthansa pays you 100€, the cost to them is closer to 200€, Check it out. You get what your employer pays for and it is important to look at this for you long term security (social protection, healthcare, unemployment cover, long term sickness and pension). NetJets offers a low salary, with a below minimum social protection package. If you join, then do so because you don’t care about social protection, want the 6/5 lifestyle and don’t need the money.

Marlon Brando 25th Sep 2018 11:32

When i started aviation, less than a decade ago, Netjets was my dream job, my goal.
it has changed. It's a pilot market now, but Netjets's T&C are pretty bad actually. I didn't even applied

i'm talking about Netjets EU.
USA is pretty good

Miserable Old Git 25th Sep 2018 15:05

AFrotary - We are receiving applications, if you are interested, you should apply. We are not struggling to recruit, just looking for good people :)

redsnail - You are absolutly correct. A fast upgrade is not possible. Projections are for the current FOs in the company to be upgraded in 6-8 years time. Obviously, the new guys and girls would be just behind them. As with any businesses, it all depends on market conditions.

EatMyShorts! - I've been in aviation for 30 years, I am comfortable, but you are correct, you won't make a lot of money being a pilot - those days are long gone. I'm not sure what 'a lot' is though. Can you tell me? 66,300 after two years is not bad IMO.

shithappens - The pension for UK based pilots is OK, unless you know otherwise. The EU one has some issues due to stupid tax rules and is being looked at with some vigor by management. Perhaps you know something else? Please let us know.

dirk85 - You also fail to understand the majority of pilots who work for us. Times are good and there are jobs around, but we have not seen a big increase in churn. Yes, there is an increase, but nothing unexpected. If the company was that bad, why do so many work here? Personally, I am very happy at Netjets and have no interest in driving a bus behind an armoured door. I managed to disconnect ego and aircraft size some time ago and enjoy the challenge of our operation and the interaction with our pax, some of whom are very interesting people.

Overall, I feel well paid (could be more of course), I enjoy the flying as it is not boring, the family medical cover is excellent and the new management seems to be listening to the concerns of all employees. The introduction of the SFO rank is a good example of how long term FOs are being rewarded for their service.

EatMyShorts! 25th Sep 2018 18:55


Originally Posted by Miserable Old Git (Post 10258028)
EatMyShorts! - I've been in aviation for 30 years, I am comfortable, but you are correct, you won't make a lot of money being a pilot - those days are long gone. I'm not sure what 'a lot' is though. Can you tell me? 66,300 after two years is not bad IMO.

It is pretty bad. Because you don't join NJE with a least 4 years of experience. Elsewhere you can make a lot more in the second year, e.g. Easyjet 90k. The reasoning that you work less here, compared with the airlines, does not hold up anymore, since we have been working like crazy in the last 2, 3 years. If people in bloody cheap Eurowings make more money than us, then something is wrong! And if you want to make big bucks you go and work for the airlines in China: 300k a year.

The pension in the UK is a shame. I have been paying my social contributions in the UK in excess of 10 years now, still the maximum retirement pay/pension will be 159 pounds per week. Can't even go shopping with this.

Klimax 26th Sep 2018 11:13


Originally Posted by Marlon Brando (Post 10257845)
When i started aviation, less than a decade ago, Netjets was my dream job, my goal.
it has changed. It's a pilot market now, but Netjets's T&C are pretty bad actually. I didn't even applied

i'm talking about Netjets EU.
USA is pretty good

I would have to concur to this. The 6/5 roster, the training and the ops support is really the only thing speaking in NJE favor. The salary (Captain and F/O) is not appealing. Go Jet Aviation, Tag Aviation and even Global Jet and you on a much better pay deal. It's a shame. NJE will defo not be able to attract the best talents (unless they take absolute rookies and train them for the next 10 years).

Professor Plum 26th Sep 2018 15:01

Hi all,

Can anyone kindly say say what the pension is for a uk based pilot? I,e how much the company/employee contributes?

sadly not in a position to apply now (Im military with a few years to go), but the 6/5 and variety is appealing. Its not just about purely the money for me. Though it always helps!!

Many thanks.

EatMyShorts! 26th Sep 2018 17:40

At this time most, if not all, UK based crew members are taking part in Scottish Widows. Others are taking part in another pension scheme, which is currently under review. The company pays 50% of what you put in, up to 6500 EUR a year. Not so great.

Globally Challenged 26th Sep 2018 21:33


Originally Posted by EatMyShorts! (Post 10259107)
At this time most, if not all, UK based crew members are taking part in Scottish Widows. Others are taking part in another pension scheme, which is currently under review. The company pays 50% of what you put in, up to 6500 EUR a year. Not so great.

TAG only pay 5%, private Medical not as good, LOL is not included with many (or maybe most) aircraft.

I used to to be at NJE and would love to return having taken VSP - but the salary is the same as it was 10 years ago and I cant afford to take such a hit to also sit the RHS for 6-8 years.

A shame as I really liked it.

EatMyShorts! 26th Sep 2018 21:49

Yes, the real alternative is going to the airlines, preferably in the Far East (for the money, not for fun) or look for a good owner. But you never know what you really get and you may be out of a job after a year or two.

The good news is: the less people are willing to join NJE, the better the package will be that the company will have to offer to all of us.

Klimax 26th Sep 2018 21:53


Originally Posted by EatMyShorts! (Post 10259304)
Yes, the real alternative is going to the airlines, preferably in the Far East (for the money, not for fun) or look for a good owner. But you never know what you really get and you may be out of a job after a year or two.

The good news is: the less people are willing to join NJE, the better the package will be that the company will have to offer to all of us.

You've got to be dreaming. NJE is like the airline of the corporate jet world. They do what a lot of the established airlines do - lower the entry requirements until they've filled their slots. What I'm saying is - don't hold your breath for that!. Sorry.

Globally Challenged 26th Sep 2018 22:27


Originally Posted by Klimax (Post 10259309)
You've got to be dreaming. NJE is like the airline of the corporate jet world. They do what a lot of the established airlines do - lower the entry requirements until they've filled their slots. What I'm saying is - don't hold your breath for that!. Sorry.

Unfortunately agreed.

EatMyShorts! 26th Sep 2018 22:30

I will hold my breath. Trust me.

TugaFly 2nd Oct 2018 12:40

Anyone that has been through the last selection process fancy shedding some light on the crew capacity test

Thanks

Miserable Old Git 16th Oct 2018 13:03

No idea what it is. The word 'Eagle' gets banded about. Sorry, can't help more than that

Flyer_123 25th Oct 2018 15:09

If there is any NJE pilot who is using VIE (LOWW) as gateway and is willing to answer a couple of my questions please PM me. I would appreciate that very much.

seven3heaven 27th Oct 2018 16:09

NJE is a strange one. Personally, I'd love to work for them but the salary just doesn't cut it. When they opened up recruitment I seriously considered applying and I currently have command in a UK based LOCO.
They can't preach to want to recruit 'the best' and offer such poor pay scales.

buzzc152 27th Oct 2018 20:54

Out of interest, what salary are they offering new hires ?

EatMyShorts! 28th Oct 2018 00:10

First Officer (FO): EUR 58,500 - until the completion of 24 months of
employment, EUR 66,300 onwards

As mentioned on the other thread?

McMax 28th Oct 2018 11:10

You’re right seven3heaven!

when I started my flight training, NJE was the company I wanted to work for one day!
They are happily taking the experience, actually asking if you have NAT/ETOPS/VIP experience!

I don’t mind sitting in the right seat of a Phenom 300, but at least pay me according to my previous experience.

Sounds like a job for young pilots with the required minimum of hours.

stiffupperlip 29th Oct 2018 16:52

A pilots job
 
10 years of great adventure. I left to try something different. Was it perfect? Never is. Mostly good people- band of brothers. 6/5 party time! If you're up for an adventure and good times, go for it! You'll be a very complete pilot, no airline bordeom. Salary if you can live in eastern or southern europe - party! Don`t know whether they still use the "gateways".

Miserable Old Git 5th Nov 2018 09:34

Gateways are still used, but the French and Belgium ones have gone

Miserable Old Git 5th Nov 2018 09:38


Flyer_123 6th Nov 2018 10:50

Any NJE pilot with experience with paying Social Security in Austria PM pls. Highly appreciated.

AFrotary 9th Nov 2018 07:19

Netjets vs airlines
 
A question at the Netjets pilots:

After a carreer at the airforce Im ready to transition to civil aviation. My main reasons to leave the airforce are work-life balance and stability.
Having the choice between Netjets and a LCC, what would you recommend me to do?

Globally Challenged 9th Nov 2018 08:00

LCC all day long.

Rapid upgrade and the RHS income at pretty much any LCC will far exceed NJE

Joe le Taxi 9th Nov 2018 09:01

Yes, the aggregated long term difference in salary would be enormous. Home every night too (more or less), for the work/life balance.

Biz jet operators really need to do something about the pay levels. Only in the US is VIP/corporate now a sensible career choice.

FlyTCI 9th Nov 2018 10:19


Originally Posted by Joe le Taxi (Post 10306159)
Yes, the aggregated long term difference in salary would be enormous. Home every night too (more or less), for the work/life balance.

Biz jet operators really need to do something about the pay levels. Only in the US is VIP/corporate now a sensible career choice.

Actually it’s not. There is an enormous exodus of talent leaving biz jets going to the airlines in the US (similar to what’s heppening in Europe, only to a larger extent) and the brain drain currently happening is a major issue in regards to safety in that part of the industry. Even a career at a ULLC like Spirit offers a better career short- and longterm. Some biz jet operators ​​​are aware of this and try to catch up, but they keep falling short. And, it’s not only about money, it’s about QOL with number of days off per month, some control over your schedule and job security. A newly minted, young pilot in the US would be a fool to look at a long term career in the biz jet side of aviation versus going 121. Best is to quickly get on with a regional carrier, build up your hours and as soon as meeting the requirements apply to the majors.

Bear in mind, I’m a the biz jet pilot myself so I’m not writing this as a 121 pilot recruiter, just relaying what’s going on in the US side of the pond. I have a green card but as I have no intention of moving back to the US I’m staying at my rotational BBJ gig.

bafanguy 9th Nov 2018 11:17


Originally Posted by FlyTCI (Post 10306224)
There is an enormous exodus of talent leaving biz jets going to the airlines in the US (similar to whats heppening in Europe, only to a larger extent) and the brain drain currently happening is a major issue in regards to safety in that part of the industry. Some biz jet operators ​​​are aware of this and try to catch up, but they keep falling short.

FlyTCI,

That's the impression I've gotten from the bits & pieces I read about biz av in the US. The question I have is whether the owners are willing to abandon the luxury of corporate airplanes rather than do (pay) what it takes to attract and retain the desired level of pilots and talent.

Is there a central clearinghouse of accurate info about how the biz av industry is actually dealing with this vs commentary about what they're thinking ?

His dudeness 9th Nov 2018 11:32


Originally Posted by bafanguy (Post 10306262)
FlyTCI,
That's the impression I've gotten from the bits & pieces I read about biz av in the US. The question I have is whether the owners are willing to abandon the luxury of corporate airplanes rather than do (pay) what it takes to attract and retain the desired level of pilots and talent.

Meanwhile, here in Europe Im very uneasy about the growth of RyanAir & the like, who in fact are about to dislocate business-aviation. Not been able to park at EGPH overnight (just as an example), airportslots left and right and atc slots massively increasing PLUS the political nuts in the CO2 camp will strangle this part of the business to an extend a pilot shortage will never be able to.

FlyTCI 9th Nov 2018 12:25


Originally Posted by bafanguy (Post 10306262)
FlyTCI,

That's the impression I've gotten from the bits & pieces I read about biz av in the US. The question I have is whether the owners are willing to abandon the luxury of corporate airplanes rather than do (pay) what it takes to attract and retain the desired level of pilots and talent.

Is there a central clearinghouse of accurate info about how the biz av industry is actually dealing with this vs commentary about what they're thinking ?

There are various companies/organizations out there publishing annual pay guidelines, some better than others, but often they are off (on the low side) of what it would take to attract someone to not go 121.

I’m member of a US based pilot web forum whose members were probably 95% corporate pilots a couple of years ago. Over the last two years a very high number of them, even those flying G’s, Globals, BBJs and so on are crowding the exit doors to “start over” as FOs on everything from the ULLC’s to SWA, the legacy carriers and UPS/FedEx. Due to many of them having been long time in the biz jet part of aviation there’s a wealth of knowledge of just about every biz jet operator out there, and hence it’s quite easy to find out what various operators are offering and when they improve conditions.

Funny enough the first company to foresee this and acted to retain their pilots by offering significantly better contracts was WalMart about two years ago. I believe the number for a LR60 captain is/was close to $200k, better pension contribution and with more days off than they had before. Despite this sizeable increase they still cannot compete with the airlines long term though. The main reasons why some choose to stay corporate is the to not wanting to move/commute to a base, or they are too old to make the move.

There will be, and has to some extent already happened, operators on the lower part of the ladder who have been forced to close due to not being able to staff their planes. So far this is mainly in the 135 world, but my guess this will eventually start to heppen in the 91 world too. They don’t mind spening loads of money on their doctors or lawyers, but the have been so spoilt over the last 20 years or so by the access to cheap pilots that they will refuse to pay what it takes. Those are obviously the kind of people you don’t want to work for anyways, so I say good riddance.

giord 10th Nov 2018 12:51

Does NJE only hire F/Os ? I am a Falcon 50/900 TRE. Thanks.

Miserable Old Git 10th Nov 2018 13:58


Originally Posted by AFrotary (Post 10306082)
A question at the Netjets pilots:

After a carreer at the airforce I’m ready to transition to civil aviation. My main reasons to leave the airforce are work-life balance and stability.
Having the choice between Netjets and a LCC, what would you recommend me to do?

Traditional airline = more money (usually)
Big jet = Ego boost + more comfortable.

One of the best part of the NJE deal is the roster. It's 6 on, 5 off and given to you 6 weeks in advance. It cannot be changed without your permission except during training or if you are on a disciplinary. For me, that's more important than the money, but I know other people have different priorities. There is no home standby unless it's on one of your on days - off means off. You may volunteer to work extra days as many of my colleagues do. You will be paid between 600 - 800 euros ish if you do one.

For me personally, the thought of flying backwards and forwards to the same airports every day behind an armoured door would bore me rigid. I have never been bored flying with NJE, but if more money than we offer, fast promotion and a big jet is something you want, it's not the right place for you. If you want varied and interesting flying tours, to work for a very professional company, some manual and visual flying into special airports, contact with customers and to actually get to know the people you work with, I think it's a good job. Not for everyone though.


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