Originally Posted by giord
(Post 10307336)
Does NJE only hire F/Os ? I am a Falcon 50/900 TRE. Thanks.
Maybe this will change in the future, but who knows. |
KURAAVIATION anounced again openings until 19th November.
With a roster 6 on 5 off what is the averege net per month? |
Here is my two cents to NetJets Europe.
Like most of my colleagues I am more than ten years with NJE. As definite pro you can say: -Stable 6on 5off roster. The roster is written in stone. They can ask you to extend, but you are not expected to accept EVER ! -Highly professional operation with all the support from the office you can possibly think of -Safety is the major concern, if something ist not safe, we do not do it. You are not pushed to do illegal rubbish, the opposite is the case. No outfit for GA Cowboys -A lot of money is invested into your training, you don't train in the SIM once a year but twice, plus 5 days in Lisbon for ground recurrent training. It is all done within your duty days -A great bunch of very professional people you will be flying with -Hotels, Airlines, Ground transports. It will be taken care of from the company -You have six special days of per year, which you can take in blocks of two days. For example to make sure to be at home when its your son/daughters birthday. Your roster will be shifted around to accommodate these days -Aircrafts are looked after from maintenance and interior perspective -The flying you are doing really deserves the name flying. Can't compare to the boredom of flying for an Airline. -If something dramatic happens at home while you are on a flying tour, you will have all the support you can wish for. They get you home ASAP. Witnessed myself multiple times. NetJets is truly great in this regard ! As cons I would highlight: -Do not assume you are transitioning from the right hand seat to the left hand seat quickly. It will be many years, don't ask for an estimate really. No one can know for sure. -You will have to deal with bollocks that you would not have to deal with in any airline. (cleaning, luggage etc etc) -You will have to sacrifice a good chunk of your salary if you do not already have a nice military/state pension. The pension problem within NetJets is not solved. -It can be a pain to get vacation in summer when you want it, for example when your kids are off school. -You will likely join on the Phenom 300 or Citation XLS fleet. Where the Phenom is a great aircraft with impressive avionics, but lacks the space and APU, and the XLS has the APU and almost stand up cabin but.... Its an XLS.... Salary....as mentioned before: EUR 58,500 - until the completion of 24 months of employment, EUR 66,300 onwards Your salary is getting adjusted every year according to OECD inflation rate. You are not getting more yearly, but at least you are not getting less buying power. If you are living in Portugal you pay a lot of tax, same goes if you happen to live in Denmark. For countries that have a double taxation agreement with Portugal, which to my knowledge is the majority of the European Countries you will pay a 25% flat income Tax in Portugal and National Insurance in the country you are living in. The later obviously varies from country to country, so one has to do the math individually. There is almost every year opportunities to top up your income a little bit. By working extra days or even signing up for working 204 or 208 days a year instead of 200. I think that sums it up. To be honest, when I read the previous comments I find it way too negative. Especially take EatMyShorts comments with a pinch of salt. Lovely guy but a bit on the complaining side of life ;) This if for sure not the place to come if you want to make the maximum money you possibly can. But it is a nice place to work with great work/life balance. Churn of the workforce is quite low, which tells a lot. |
Delta 12 a friend of a friend who works for Netjets assures me he spends the majority of his per diems on tour. It is a TAX FREE allowance which may be taxed in the future if not spent. So other than your information I’m sure everyone in Netjets spends a considerable amount of their per diem income. binzer |
Originally Posted by binzer
(Post 10308041)
Delta 12 a friend of a friend who works for Netjets assures me he spends the majority of his per diems on tour. It is a TAX FREE allowance which may be taxed in the future if not spent. So other than your information I’m sure everyone in Netjets spends a considerable amount of their per diem income. @Delta12: I am negative? I am realistic. Please take off your tinted glasses and look outside the box as well to realize that for what we do we are underpaid by quite a bit. An offset would be a fat year-end bonus in good years and we are hopefully going to see it in the near future, as the company is suddenly facing a situation where it cannot attract enough suitable candidates. The fact that our hiring contractor is opening yet another round of assessments is quite telling, because obviously we were not able to fill in the 60 seats so far. If I had a captain seat somewhere else, with a similar salary, I'd rather apply somewhere else. Yes, our roster is nice, our flying is nice, but there some important items (higher per-diems, higher salaries that reflect the current status of the market, a true pension scheme etc.) that need fixing. Churn is low? Excuse me, we lost more than 40 pilots in 2018, among them very senior captains who cannot afford to continue without a proper pension plan. I am 100% positive that 9 out of 10 of them loved the roster and the flying, but they took a rational decision. At the moment most crew members do NOT have a proper pension plan, but rather a savings plan: the money that goes in is taken from your net-salary and when you get money out later, you will pay tax again. Ok, the employer contribution is up to 6500 EUR a year, but that's a very low amount. I rather keep all my net salary and invest it myself. So, if I was a real complainer, I'd have long left, because on the market you can easily make much more money, which comes at a price (roster, conditions etc), no doubt. For me personally, the PROs win over the CONs, too. And we are trying to resolve the CONs, but it is not happening overnight. The more people leave and the less people decide join us, the better for us, because the company will be forced to protect its operation. Logical. So, I am still holding my breath for better things to come - not because the company loves us, because they finally need us again! |
Could any UK based NJE pilots please confirm the tax arrangements? I was under the impression that zero tax was paid in Portugal and the ONLY tax paid was UK income tax and NI.
Secondly, time to command has been suggested by the recruiters to be 6 years. Are you all saying that to be unrealistic? |
Originally Posted by EatMyShorts!
(Post 10308068)
So, if I was a real complainer, I'd have long left |
Originally Posted by skaterboi
(Post 10308073)
Could any UK based NJE pilots please confirm the tax arrangements? I was under the impression that zero tax was paid in Portugal and the ONLY tax paid was UK income tax and NI.
Secondly, time to command has been suggested by the recruiters to be 6 years. Are you all saying that to be unrealistic? |
Originally Posted by Delta12
(Post 10308091)
In my experience complainers never leave ;)
|
Excuse me stepping for a bit of fact checking ; 18 people left this last year, not 40. For a Uk based crew, all your taxes are paid in the UK. How you spend Per Diems is your choice. Personally, I generally spend less than 100 euros per tour. I think this is fairly typical. We have received HUNDREDS of applications for the 60 available positions. They are being very particular about who they recruit. I’m not sure exactly what they are looking for. Now my opinion ; New joiners will be looking at least 8 years to command. No way in as little as 6. Total income including bonus, per diems, overtime if you wish to do it & salary after a few years will be around €80,000 for an FO. Plus company provided health, LOL, life insurance. NJ is not perfect but it beats the heck out of most jobs out there. You’d be mad to think otherwise. |
Thanks Buzz, much appreciated.
|
@buzz: yes, it beats a lot of GA-jobs, no doubt. But I thought we were more like an airline with certain GA-characteristics. The LOL is a very light version, compared to other programs. The life insurance is, too.
And only 18 pilots have left this year? I heard this incorrect number as well, but we were already at 36 in August... but I am sure I got the numbers wrong and I am just a mean complainer who will never be happy! :) Just to be sure: Netjets is a great place and I recommend it to FOs with intermediate experience. Most captains will not be happy as it will take them a long time to become captains, unless they agree to join the office in Lisbon and sell their soul for a left seat. You can be sure that not too many pilots on the line are too content about these people. |
EMS I'm sure you are both loved and needed. You have some valid points and I do believe the company is trying to address your Cons. I think your churn figure is too high; brief last week was less than half that as a rolling 12 month figure. There has been a slight increase but still way below industry norms. With more opportunities available I think it is inevitable the churn will increase a little. Time will tell how competitive we remain. For perspective new hires we need to put our internal comments, driven by a long period of career stagnation in context: We are financially secure; something most of our competitors crews cannot say with confidence. There appears to be a cunning plan for controlled growth without over exposing us to the next downturn and we are now hiring and upgrading in fairly significant numbers. I believe the 6 year to upgrade estimate is reasonable, especially in a competitive hiring environment and the beginning of age related retirements just over the horizon. Overall I think Delta12's comments are pretty accurate and we have the nice problem of keeping up with demand in 2019. |
Originally Posted by EatMyShorts!
(Post 10308096)
Some complainers never leave, true. And many other "complainers" are genuinely interested in staying and making the company better, they just cannot hold back on communicating their frustrations to others. It's a bit like "Africa": it could be sooooo much better.
I edited the part with the PD, agree, not too clever what I did. Simply did not think before texting :ooh: Sorry |
All cool, I was just a bit surprised to be called a complainer, as we both know people who complain literally about anything, even a payrise, because it was probably 10 Cents short of their expectations :D
|
Good morning.
Can anyone help me providing information about the bases where you can operate from home? An example, because I live very close to Alicante. This is one of the most busy airports in Spain, but I see (maybe I am wrong) that in Spain there are only three bases, MAD, BCN and AGP (Málaga). Can you confirm this true? Do you think that, if hired, I can agree with the Company to have ALC as a Gateway for Operations? Thanks a lot. |
Hi HM, yes, this is true: at this time only MAD, BCN and AGP are official gateways, due to seasonality of the airlines. You cannot change this.
We have had PMI as a temporary and seasonal summer gateway this year and last year and we are trying to add more, but they will only be available during summer months when there is a sufficient number of direct flights to key airports in Europe. |
Thanks for your answer!
|
Originally Posted by buzzc152
(Post 10308234)
....... We have received HUNDREDS of applications for the 60 available positions. They are being very particular about who they recruit. |
The issue is that Netjets has a good reputation, but when people see the contractual conditions, primarily the money and pension scheme, they take their application back.
|
Originally Posted by EatMyShorts!
(Post 10311064)
The issue is that Netjets has a good reputation, but when people see the contractual conditions, primarily the money and pension scheme, they take their application back.
|
In my experience large cabin business jet operator do not care much at all in which company you were working before: it is mostly about connections, and the type ratings that you have. Having flown for NJE is not going to give any significant advantage in that regard.
|
Speaking from a painful position of experience - other operators (well mine at least) show no interest in upgrading experienced FOs and appear to have no forward plan. So when a captain job comes up, their lengthy upgrade process effectively means the existing FOs (the 3 FOs on our gig have 11-13 years experience of bizjet) don’t get a look in and an external (sometimes non-rated) captain gets helicoptered in. So while it it may take time at NJE, at least everyone gets a fair crack at upgrade and no special handshakes required. |
Not my experience from Hong Kong operators. Upgrading FOs from within was normal. Maybe the Swiss and Austrians operators have a different policy. I stand to be corrected. |
I’m in a large UK operator (although they do have a few other AOCs) |
Originally Posted by Klimax
(Post 10311153)
For the rookie pilot, I'd still see NJE as a great training institution and a kick start to the corporate and business jet world. 3-5 years at NJE and you'll be loaded with good training and flying hours, and your next step is to enter a better paying large cabin business jet operator and get your command a year or two later. NJE pilots are respected at the private jet management companies and they'll be happy to welcome them on-board, upgrade and remunerate according to equipment and client. NJE can function just like some of the airlines, as a stepping stone, that benefits the pilot. For the more experienced corporate pilot, I don't really see any good reason to go for NJE, unless you're unemployed or desperate for the 6/5 roster style offered. For sure you wouldn't go to NJE for the money - even before considering the "on-shore" setup NJE operate with.
|
Originally Posted by Moonwalker
(Post 10311830)
Yeah and then you come out on the market with a Phenom 300 rating.... Good luck. Not even the airlines would be interesting in you and if they are there is a risk you have to start from the bottom in a TP operator or as a Cadet in a low cost A320/737 operator.
|
Originally Posted by Klimax
(Post 10311846)
Yup, as mentioned, NJE is about the quality training received and the general daily ops of the company and to some extend the 6/5 work schedule, most of the rest is just cr@p.
You sure you know the company or just a bit grim or jealous ? |
PPJN must be operated by a true NetJets hater :ooh:
Information full of bollox, as has been in the past. "No quarterly limits, expect 5/3 during the summer" -The only way one would find himself with a 5/3 roster is volunteering for extra days big time. "Time to upgrade ESTIMATE 10 to 15 years" -Good to know someone finally found that famous crystal ball :ok: "Growth currently and expected to be minimal" -Must be right if they say so, its just the opposite from what I witness At least they finally stopped promoting VistaJet as heaven on earth |
Sorry Delta, but there's a grain of truth to it and you should quote the information from PPJN correctly, without leaving context out ;)
Netjets Europe pilot jobs news for airline pilots and aviation schools Let me do it: Now 204/208 working days available. No quarterly limits, expect 5/3 during the summer. Regarding quarterly limits the information at PPJN is correct: 200 working days per year. Max. 49 in 1st and 4th quarter and 51 in 2nd and 3rd quarter. 6 Special Days off per year (request only, not guaranteed and do not count towards 200 working days). Normally, 6 on/5 off, 7 on/6off long range fleet, but can be changed if training event/SDO/Vacation in quarter, in reality that means always. 6/5 is semi-stable. Roster published 1.5 months in advance. No DEC. Upgrade by seniority only. Time to upgrade ESTIMATE 10 to 15 years, greatly dependent company growth and pilots leaving. Growth currently and expected to be minimal. Pilots leaving moderate. Pilots leaving due to lack of pension and career perspectives I believe that most of us at NJE would see Vista as a step down in their careers, unless you are looking for a possible quick command - in case that this is still possible there. Most pilots who have left this and last year headed for the airlines, a few stayed in corporate aviation, but took a step up, e.g. on a BBJ or G650 etc.. |
Originally Posted by EatMyShorts!
(Post 10313155)
Sorry Delta, but there's a grain of truth to it and you should quote the information from PPJN correctly, without leaving context out ;)
Netjets Europe pilot jobs news for airline pilots and aviation schools Let me do it: =no quarterly limits is technically not correct when you opt for the 204 or 208 option, but effectively you will work 5/3 on a number of occasions, during the summer peak. Working 5/3 a few times in a row definitely feels like "no quarterly limits", or are we just spoilt pussies? Regarding quarterly limits the information at PPJN is correct You only do 5/3 when you apply for working more, which you do not have to ! Obviously, you have to accept a 5/3 Roster if you VOLUNTEER for extra duty. If you volunteer for jack ****, you do not work a 5/3 pattern. They moved NetJets from Portugal to the UK on PPJN. As far as I am aware our AOC is in Portugal. IMHO the guys behind PPJN are constantly bashing NJ. |
Originally Posted by Delta12
(Post 10312954)
Bolt statement :D
You sure you know the company or just a bit grim or jealous ? |
Originally Posted by Delta12
(Post 10313166)
IMHO the guys behind PPJN are constantly bashing NJ.
|
Originally Posted by Klimax
(Post 10313251)
It seems that people, that don’t seem to share YOUR opinion on NJE, they are all just “bashing” the company you work for. A tart close minded it appears like. |
Originally Posted by Delta12
(Post 10313430)
Beside... There is opinions and there is facts :ugh:
So in short its simply personal thing. E.g. the pay at NJE would have been a very good one for me, say 12 years ago and these days I wouldn´t like to earn that little. When NJE offered all the options for the pilots it did in 2009 (?) when things looked dire, I was very surprised that they did that and not just sacked everybody deemed to be surplus. I personally know a pilot who could stay on with one of the offered options who would have been sacked in most if not all other outfits. Took a financial damage but kept the job. PS: I hate NJE, cause they want to take my job away and they really try hard. Thats not the pilots, but the company itself, I hasten to add. |
@Delta12: I think you misunderstood the information at PPJN. Let me quote the entire paragraph:
200 working days per year. Max. 49 in 1st and 4th quarter and 51 in 2nd and 3rd quarter. 6 Special Days off per year (request only, not guaranteed and do not count towards 200 working days). Normally, 6 on/5 off, 7 on/6off long range fleet, but can be changed if training event/SDO/Vacation in quarter, in reality that means always. 6/5 is semi-stable. Roster published 1.5 months in advance. Now 204/208 working days available. No quarterly limits, expect 5/3 during the summer. I also would like to point out that anyone can edit the content, I actually just applied some corrections to the name of the operator, its country and the duty days to make it more clear. They are not being shown yet, I guess they need to be approved by an admin/mod first. Also, don't overlook their Disclaimer: Disclaimer: The entries on this site are provided by voluntary contributers. Neither PPJN nor its site administrators can be held responsible for any entries herein. We rely on the honesty and integrity of our contributers. By using this website you are agreeing to these terms. @His dudeness: I understand that our company is a potential threat to your job. As long as your boss is tight on money, you are not in danger :) NJE is quite costly for owners and not everyone appreciates the reasons why we are so expensive. |
Not sure I would recommend Netjets. 6 Year upgrade for new hires??? Difficult to predict but nowhere near the mark. Although having said that, the forced redeployment of Gulfstream pilots to the Excel fleet? may prompt those to leave creating a few more openings.
No pension to speak of nor any prospect of one. I don't see how they would be able to attract anybody given the current conditions? Look elsewhere first would be my advice, there are good opportunities out there. |
Originally Posted by seymoursigg
(Post 10313752)
Not sure I would recommend Netjets. 6 Year upgrade for new hires??? Difficult to predict but nowhere near the mark. Although having said that, the forced redeployment of Gulfstream pilots to the Excel fleet? may prompt those to leave creating a few more openings.
No pension to speak of nor any prospect of one. I don't see how they would be able to attract anybody given the current conditions? Look elsewhere first would be my advice, there are good opportunities out there. |
Really, Arthur...
|
Yes, but the required response about fleet plan and refleeting is not for here. The first hires we abviously could not attract have already been released to the line. |
All times are GMT. The time now is 23:20. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.