What salary to ask for
 

Hello everybody.
What would be the proper salary to ask for a G650 Captain in Europe/Russia.
Type will be paid by the owner. New in the Gulfstream world but with a fair amount of hours. No info about the roster yet.
Thank you for the input.

Also - how about a NTR FO (2500TT+ with 2000+ on super-mid size) onto a 7X / G550 in the UK

How the hell are you guys getting these jobs? I must be searching in the wrong place...

Hi.
I did not say that i got the job already.
Looks like an interview is coming up and I just dont want to sell myself for the wrong price.
And I know there are so many differrent numbers around, depending on which company your are employed with and in which country. Therefore I like to know a fair number which i could possibly ask for.
The rest is networking and about who you know and I guess a bit to be at the right place at the right time.
Thank you

Ah ok. Good luck and if its Moscow based and they need an experienced guy in either seat, sent me a PM if you can. Cheers

These don't get advertised much do they - its more direct contact or friend of a friend.

You heard about the job here first.

Treasure that fact.

Our G650 Capts in Europe are earning btwn 12-14k USD, experienced G550 FOs about 6-7k.

Obviously there is a lot of variance between operators/owners.

Just read this section. An EK captain asked a similar question about a month or so ago and we replied. Good luck.

At 14K USD a month that's only $168K USD a year!

There better be other sweeteners attached to that job especially if you have to live in Europe.

You must be mixing up with Legacy 650 salaries, otherwise substandard and I suspect swing door ops. No serious operator or owner pays less than 12-15K EURO (NOT trump dollars!).

If Russia is involved, think "expensive" more so if that Russia means "Moscow".

Housing, living etc.My colleague has lived there for almost 2 years and I was based there for 2 months.

I fly the G650 in Europe currently, so I'm confident in those numbers. Salary is x13 months, plus 100 USD per diem per day while away on a 2 on/2 off roster. We're not paid in dollars obviously, but I did the conversation for clarity.

Like I said, a lot of variance btwn operators. There's a certain austrian G550 operator that pays it's FOs 3K Eur/month...Capt's only 7k. I know of other G650 Capts that are only at 10K eur/month.

In the end, Salary is just a part of it. Based at home with low ops tempo could mean plenty of money for very little effort, with opportunity for freelancing on the side (@1500-2k eur a day). On the other hand, 14K for always being gone might not make sense to you.
Point is, just because your flying the big bird doesn't always mean your making the big bucks. Operators and owners will always try to squeeze you. But if it affords the lifestyle you seek, so be it.

Except that that EK Captain wants to go to South Africa to fly an airplane that, from the looks of it, doesn't even exist...

"Our G650 Capts in Europe are earning btwn 12-14k USD, experienced G550 FOs about 6-7k experienced G550 FOs about 6-7k"

Sounds low in my eyes. Especially the FO side. Also depends if they pay social tax or not. If it's an offshore contract there won't be any money left with that salary.

My experience is that no matter what type of jet you fly in Europe today as captain you’ll be struggling to get much more than €13K plus daily pay of around €100 to cover expenses when on duty. If you’re lucky you can add a 13th salary and a private pension to that. Like it or not, but €10-11K is probably what the majority of people make.

FO pay mentioned here around €7-8K sounds about right, for UK and perhaps CH, for G550/G650/GLEX and perhaps slightly lower for F7/8X. But but even that’s a bit high if you look at most operators in for example France, Germany, Austria and a certain operator in Luxembourg. I’d say €4-5K plus per diem starting pay for an FO is the harsh reality for many people today.

Not agreeing with this sad state of affairs, just telling it how it is.

CP

“Should be” as in that’s your personal opinion or? Because the reality is far from that. I think the vast majority of FOs in Europe are on €4-6K plus extras. Again, not agreeing to what our industry has turned in to but this is how it is at the moment.

Edit to add: And I don’t see this changing any time soon.

CP

I started out as an FO on the G550 earning exactly that: €5Kx13 +per diem, while some of my newly typed & bonded colleagues were just at €3K. I assume it's either remained the same or gotten worse since.

I agree with CP's assessment above regarding salary averages in mainland Europe, where FO pay is typically 60% of what the Capts earn.

These days, the only place where I see Capt's salaries consistently over €15K is over in the sandbox or far east.

Disclaimer: newbie asking (who's just in GA) and at the risk of drawing serious "Google before you ask" comments:

What is the common pathway to end up in the cockpit of a Gulfstream aircraft? Do you have to build hours elsewhere first and then apply or is that an alternative path to common airlines?

When you find out, kindly let me know too.

Get on anything with wings and start building up your network.

CP

need some advice please
 

Gentleman – need some advice please.

recently got an offer as captain (incl. SVC/LTC) and flight ops manager for a FAR23 / CAT operation, with 3 light jets. I’m rated, current on type with >2000hrs on type, postholder compliance and safety (CAT operation) for a different outfit. Actually, it looks like that they will get two FAR25 (mid-size) aircrafts this year with an option for me to go left seat on the new type as well.

Question: What is an average salary for an European fixed employed captain on a light jet, probably later mid-size. What extra money can I ask for the FOM position – realistically? :}

Cheers!
PMs appreciated as well… :ok:

Do not hanka after a gulfsteam job. The flying is detrimental to your health, utterly boring beyond belief and full of egomaniacs that will kill you at the 1st opportunity. 'Worst decision of my career! I would never go back for any money.

wow.. that's a sad experience. What did you end up doing, that is so much more fun and with a great bunch then? Seriously curios.

He's a barista at a kale juice shop.

I wouldn't say "sad." Just an anti-Klimax!!
I went back to good flying and got back my enjoyment of the job. I am afraid I am not alone in my experience either as more and more are beginning to see the light now?
Unfortunately the egomaniacs are infiltrating the entire business now so finding, and more importantly keeping, a decent job is becoming quite rare.
I know everyone wants that big shiny jet and they don't come much shinier than the Gulfstream but really, it was not for me. The endless fatigue (jet lag) made me question my entire existence. It made dodging the backstabbers even harder.

I understand your experiences with the jet lag side of flying the long range Gulfstreams (or any other long range jet), and agree this CAN be a flip side of the coin. But, again, this all depends on the specific aircraft (frame/owner) and how he travels (layover times, time of departure etc.).

However I'm sincerely interested in know what you define as "good flying"? is it smaller biz jets with lots of sectors and regional or back to airlines or what? Thank you.

Ah that's an easy question to answer...
Short haul, Europe destinations, just a few sectors per month, nice sensible aircraft, good crew, good pax, good hotac and most importantly a company that has empathy. Then the job can be a delight. Or... flat out east, west, west again, east, east again, with only min rest between which ends up as 2 hrs sleep, truly awful crew (actually the worst pilots I have ever seen) arrogant pax, dreadful destinations with all sorts of diseases to get you, and they did, and a horrendous management company that extends every duty by 50% and doesn't even pay for it.
You decide?

Now, it would seem to me that your reasons to dislike "gulfstream flying" so much, is more down to your personal bad experience, which obviously sounds bad, but that's not necessarily what all privately managed long range gulfstream account are like. I used to be on one where we'd fly once or twice a month, west then east, have 2-4 days away and be home 20 days a month or at times 6 weeks off with no flying, and the occasionally flight to some great destinations in different continents. On top of that great, well trained and skilled crew. Pax were ok. Also - the G650 is not a bad airframe to do regional flying in - it's truly well equipped for flying around Europe as well. Anyways, I was curios to hear what made your current job better than "gulfstream" jobs, and you explained well. Enjoy. Cheers.

Mmhhh, lets see, you're still alive ?

I guess the European mosquito's don't bit much and they are clean little buggers... It's interesting how people are different (and that's all good) in what they work well with.

Hello

i come back to this thread to ask for updated figures for a NTR skipper on the G650.
Currently PIC on Airbus.
Any info is greatly appreciated.
Europe base.
Thanks.

Do you have any BizJet experience?

Good morning,
no biz experience, only commercial legacy and LCC on the Airbus. Long haul too.
Thanks

Most salary surveys are US-centric and I haven’t seen a European table for some time (I’m assuming you are in Europe).

This table will give you some idea of the relative salaries between types though: https://bizjetjobs.com/pilot-salary-survey

I will add something you are probably already aware of though which is that the actual flying is only a relatively small percentage of what we do and it may be tricky finding a large cabin long range position without prior experience.

Thanks for the valuable infos Globally!
Best regards.

May I add that that kind of job is 99% about networking, and very hard to get if not in the business. An initial on that type is what, 150k dollars these days?
If freelancing you would have to charge at least 2000/2500 eur per day to make it worth.

Maybe you can use the Qatar Executive G650 open position as a reference in terms of salary for a full time contract?

A lot also depends on how the operation is crewed. 2 Cpts and 1 FO on a 20/10 rotation? 2 Cpts and 2 FOs on a 15/15 roster? Additional roles (maintenance, chief pilot duties, etc). Location is also important. Austria and Germany tend to attract awful contracts in this business, the rest slightly better.

Thanks for the infos as well Dirk👍🏻

so you are basically useless in the Bizjet world. Look for an entry level F/O job to learn the extra layers of BS you need to deal with as a PIC.. you will thank me later

Well, i am a useless PIC on the A320 family since a few years, flown 330 too.
I am so useless that i may have a direct entry offer in a long range business jet.
Thanks anyway for your extremely relevant and informative comment and compliments for your long career in the biz business.