Salaries...
 

Latest I heard in Germany: 1400€ gross for a C525 FO in Germany...2200€ gross for a C605 FO, SSTR plus fees for the six ldgs is deducted from the salary, work contract is only offered after the TR...

Cecco

Not worth considering.

Latest I heard from Austria: 1.800 - 2.000 EUR as F/O on a Hawker, have to be typed, experienced on type and move to Vienna. :rolleyes:

And on the other end of the scale, I met someone recently in Turkey on $10k Net per month with free rating and 2 weeks on/2 weeks off flying an AOC CL30

2012 Salary Survey from Pro Pilot Magazine
FO Postion
Super Midsize Jets

Average Low High
Challenger 300 73,000 58,000 83,000
Citation X 78,000 64,000 89,000
Embraer Legacy 68,000 53,000 80,000
Falcon 50/50EX 74,000 56,000 85,000
Gulfstream G200/Galaxy 67,000 52,000 80,000
Hawker 4000 (Horizon) 73,000 58,000 83,000

Midsize jets

Citation III/VI/VII 58,000 49,000 73,000
Citation Excel 56,000 46,000 63,000
Citation Sovereign 62,000 52,000 78,000
Falcon 20/200 51,000 40,000 63,000
Gulfstream G100/G150/Astra 57,000 48,000 71,000
Hawker 600/700 54,000 38,000 62,000
Hawker 800/800XP/1000 63,000 52,000 76,000
Hawker 850/850XP/900/900XP 67,000 53,000 79,000
Learjet 35/36 50,000 39,000 58,000
Learjet 40/40XR/45/45XR 58,000 48,000 67,000
Learjet 55/60 60,000 51,000 71,000
Westwind I/II 45,000 34,000 54,000

is this Euro or US-$?

one cannot compare gross € (EU) and gross $ (US) as health insurance, pension ... is all deducted from the gross salary!

Is threr such a table also for EU-€?

Its in $..... It is put out in Pro Pilot once a year, from a survey of the industry.

Never seen one over here in Europe with Pounds or Euro's.

For FOs, it´s generally around 2000€-2300€ gross for light jets. @Noneya, your salary survey is too good to be true...

Nope. Not too good to be true. The Salaries in Germany and Austria are just too low. The survey covers mostly the USA and also looks at charter, fractional and corporate separatelly IIRC

Cecco I did not make them up they come straight out of Professional Pilot Magazine.

Here is another exert for Heavy Jets..
Captain
Heavy intl jets

Average Low High
Airbus ACJ318/319 145,000 127,000 180,000
Boeing 727 124,000 102,000 145,000
Boeing 737/BBJ 145,000 127,000 175,000
Challenger 600/601 118,000 89,000 148,000
Challenger 604/605 125,000 97,000 164,000
Falcon 7X 133,000 101,000 171,000
Falcon 900/900EX 129,000 98,000 170,000
Global Express/Global 5000 146,000 108,000 191,000
Gulfstream IV/G450 134,000 99,000 167,000
Gulfstream V/G550 145,000 113,000 182,000

First officer/copilot
Heavy intl jets

Average Low High
Airbus ACJ318/319 92,000 76,000 108,000
Boeing 727 86,000 69,000 96,000
Boeing 737/BBJ 92,000 77,000 111,000
Challenger 600/601 76,000 68,000 88,000
Challenger 604/605 84,000 74,000 97,000
Falcon 7X 91,000 76,000 104,000
Falcon 900/900EX 90,000 75,000 103,000
Global Express/Global 5000 92,000 77,000 105,000
Gulfstream IV/G450 89,000 75,000 100,000
Gulfstream V/G550 92,000 77,000 109,000

Those in Germany can thank Gerhard Shroeder and his "2010 agenda" launched back in 2003.
Sure Germany is or has been competitive as an investor point of view (and as for tourists).
But for how long? Once the wealth of babyboomers will have been spent, I wonder... I am also afraid Chinese will soon be kindly invited to buy more local.

If you compare the Gross salaries vs Net, my experience is that the difference can vary up to 4 times within Europe!
And please don't compare with offshore salaries...

Ok, so the survey is accurate...however, in Germany and Austria, FO salaries are atrociously low, Switzerland is ok. I don´t know about other European countries...anybody from the UK or France step forward please...

Cecco

From memory, my net pay in the RHS of a NJE excel with a UK gateway was in the region of £3100 per month + something like £800-900 per diems (€4600 with today's rate)

I took redundancy and a free rating to fly for a private owner on a UK based CL30 (working significantly less than I used to) for a net of £2800 + something like £650 per diems (€4000 with today's rate)

The Pro pilot "average" salaries, but with a € sign in front of the number, is probably a good reference point if you ask me. That number should come with daily allowance, health insurance and a pension though.

I'm starting to feel ripped off now :confused: :yuk:

Cpt. Prop,

this means for an CL604/5 F/O 84.000 EURO gross + per diems?

hm, too optimistic!

You can be glad to get that figure as Cpt.

I would say £60-70k gross for a rated RHS CL604/5 is reasonable (particularly for the UK market)

You are absolutely right, Joe l.t. These figures may be realistic in UK but not on the crazy German/Austrian Market. Here you ll never get 80k EUR gross as an CO, rated or not. If yes tell me where ;-)

Solution: Avoid German / Austrian companies. :=

Agree, Austrian in particular, they are really bringing down the T&C

Couple of year ago I was offered a job as Captain on long range business jet for 72,000 Euro, I kindly declined. But they found someone at the end.

I understand that there are pilots desperate to get a job, but they are not doing any favour to anyone, them included.

I have heard Vista Jet are only paying around 85000 euros for Global Captains.

What kind of roster comes along with these figures? :confused:
Must be a paradise market in UK regarding salaries... :{
Here: holiday charter A320 F/O pay is 60k gross. Plus per diems. So 85k for a Challenger F/O seems a lot on the continent!:ugh:


"Joe le Taxi
Nonsense - If you are getting significantly less than these figures, gross, excluding per diems, then yes, you are being ripped off.

Globally Challenged
I would say £60-70k gross for a rated RHS CL604/5 is reasonable (particularly for the UK market)
"

Vistajet
 

It could be that they are type rating individuals and bonding them on the BD700? The type course is about $50,000 alone.

Therefore, some guys may be making a gamble that they take the job, see out the bond and jump ship for better money ASAP.

I'm not condoning it, but that would be my guess.

Narrow Runway,

the offer I wrote about was far a already type rated and with years of experience on type.

I also heard what Above the Clouds said, again for an already type rated pilot.
And 30 Euro perdiem, not even enough for breakfast!

Well, they must be desperate.

The pilots? Yes, unfortunately some are.

We(the pilots[with tons of experience]) are desperate, of course. We have to pay our expenses, feed the family. Simply survive this horrible times.

And for the salary discussion: a CAPTAIN in Vista gets 86.000 € gross. New Malta contracts differ a bit. But from a friend on a Global, who was forced to sign a new maltese contract, I learned that at the end you get less then before on the Austrian/German/Swiss contracts. He left already :E (after flying the Global for 4 months). What comes around goes around, right Vista? ;)

Of course assuming one is paying all required taxes, unemployment, retirement and health insurances. Somepeople still try to do the offshore deal inside europe - a very dangerous gamble in my opinion.

VJS.... So you mean that you can't pay your expenses and feed your family with 86000 EUR? Tell that supermarket single mom that you can't pay your bills with 86000 EUR and see what she says. Some people should not be allowed to handle money it seems. Ever heard about reducing your "expenses"? Perhaps that is exactly what your employer is doing so he/she can still keep you employed? Funny how life suddenly can seem positive once you just change your attitude. Ever tried?

I used to walk into the salary reviews with latest Pro Pilot mag in my hands. Means very little.

First off the pilots are probably jacking up their salaries 30% as has been found to be true in most of the population pumping their salaries up.

Secondly, with the prevalence of hiring 'cheap' it queers the other end of the scale, where 1000 hour pilots working for dirt bring the average way down.

These days all that seems to matter to employers is a type and 500 hours pic. You could roll in drunk, in a wheel chair, slurring your speech, drooling out of the left side of your mouth, they just want that type and PIC time.

From Teldorserious

:):O:D
So funny...
If I may, I would also use what you say for the young ones with no hours but money filling their pockets (through mummy or the banks).
It then gives.

You could roll in drunk, in a wheel chair, slurring your speech, drooling out of the left side of your mouth, they just want that money of yours.

In France, captains on light jets (C525 etc) get €2500-4000 per month gross. FOs lucky if they get paid at all - plenty flying for free..

It's good to see that European pilots are so rich so they can afford to subsidize poor bizjet owners and airlines by buying their type ratings, paying for landings and line training, and accepting a fraction of one trip's catering bill as a monthly salary.

Unfortunately, in the US, we aren't nearly as well off as European pilots to be able to afford to do all that. So yes, the numbers in the Pro Pilot survey are in the ball park. I know a few operators that pay better than what's in the survey, but most fall in that range.

Bit of a dumb generalization there BeCareful:rolleyes:

@NBP

Your logic sounds like my management guys which earn propably the double :ok:

86000.-before tax and all deductions - and that's a lot.

I know that a single mom has to deal with less, she is most likely as well not away for 17 day+ in a row per month.
We could talk as well about qualification and experience, but it is useless to talk about that to a management guy type like you.

Your attitude seems to be perfect - call Nick(if it is not you :suspect:), he has a job for you :E

IF this is relevant to any salary discussion, then ALL salary getting persons should just get what it takes to feed the family, is that what you are saying ???

Whats your salary then NBP and what do you do for it ?

You think, flydive ? I think hes not to far from the truth here. I know you are an exception and I´m one too, but I guess we are just lucky...


BTW, you still have the R 3 ?

Soooo it's you?
Have to be more careful of what I say now;)

Yes, still have it, rode it today.

Back to the thread

Well, yes, there are some bad salaries going around in Europe, especially in Austria and Germany, but I also heard some bad in US.
So I find a bit of a generalization to say that here is bad and over there is heaven.

We are lucky.
Maybe yes, but it is also up to us to refuse underpaid jobs, unfortunately there is always someone that accepts, dragging down everybody else.

I agree - that has been the unintended consequence of the JAR/EASA/FAA policy to make type-ratings expire after one year. Now all that counts is having a current type-rating - long term accumulated experience on different types counts for nothing. It is a stupid policy which has dragged the whole profession into the mire.

flydive1,

Let's just say, in the US a chief pilot would immediately show the door to a pilot with a TR and no experience, simply not done. In fact, "poaching" pilots by offering money and benefits have reappeared here as operators are bidding for experienced pilots. Inexperienced need not apply. I get around to a lot of departments in my current job, talk with chiefs and directors and get offers, so I'm not blowing smoke up your skirt.

GF

I see the same in the industry as GF!

We only hire guys with 9,000+ hours and time in type! We do not hire FO's only Captains, for safety... Our flying schedule is too heavy to be a one man cockpit...

And we pay well above Pro Pilot rates to keep good quality guys!