All I can say is, I've never flown with a self funded(TR) full time pilot yet.
Not saying that they do not exist, just haven't met one yet.

Noneya, all nice what you say, but young pilots have to start somewhere.

I agree 100% that they have to start somewhere! But not nessesarily in the right seat of a G550/Global/737/320 with 500 hours. How about build some time in something smaller, build some PIC time, get some "been there done that" under your belt, then step up. That way you are actually an asset in the cockpit not just hanging on. I am not saying you have to have 10,000 hours, just more than wet ink on a piece of paper!

I hope that everyone that wants to be pilot, succeedes! But please don't ruin your own future by flying for peanuts, free, or pay to set in the seat!! If someone can afford to buy the jet, they can afford to pay you to fly it, otherwise they really couldn't afford it and shouldn't have one in the first place!! :=

Sorry if some don't agree, but deep down I know you proably know I am right!

I am off my soapbox! Good luck to all!
J

Hours are meaningless; I know 500 hour guys who are quite capable in the RHS of any of the above types, and 10,000 hour guys that I wouldn't sit in the back if they're up front in either seat.
Attitude, knowledge and skill are what is needed; experience adds to that, but there is no benefit to spending 20 years practising being a cowboy.
Noneya, if you think having two 9k+ guys in the cockpit adds to safety I suggest you start your reading with the GIV at Houston that was on its way to pick up Bush Snr and carry on from there.

You made your own point. No two pilots are the same! I agree there are plenty of 10,000 guys I wouldn't sit next too!! I am lucky to have 7 other high time guys to fly with and it is effortless because of it!!!

Galaxy it's easier to get a job when the other guys see you roll up in a jet, not to mention you get to hop around airports and just bump into other flight departments, relaxed, not needing a flying job, not giving a crap.

It's just psychology. Also I wouldn't discount the fact that you have probably been offered jobs to fly the plane that you are flying right now, as they can see they get a free type and currency out of the deal.

Always easier to get a job when you have a job, it's just psychology.

Converselly, I have been told to cut my resume in half as that 'intimidates' chief pilots, so maybe another factor is that you don't intimidate people. Maybe you are professional FO, you don't worry Chief pilots. Can't stress this enough. So many insecure peeps in corporate aviation, with so many hiring kids, old timers that are past it, ect. The guys that I know personally that have gone the farthest were fuel pumpers, flight instructors, guys with out degrees, that the boss knew couldn't get hired elsewhere.

As stupid as this sounds I might just cut my resume down so much that in the end it just says 'can't fly, won't take your job, sem-retarded, will sell out, will do what you want as long as I get a seat'.

LOL, I believe that you will find that GF is not a professional FO, but sometimes the flight department wants the best of the best, and he falls in that category :)


Mutt

Maybe true, maybe just the usual drivel of a once to often turned down person...? As a 'chief pilot' of a very small flight department (the other guy and me) and the former chief pilot of a twice as big workforce I say this:

I won´t hire ANYONE who I think I won´t get along easily. I sometimes spent more time with my colleague than with my wife, if I´d sit next to an idiot (no matter how good an aviator he is) that time is felt twofold or triplefold. So yes, I don´t judge on experience alone.

Cutting down CVs/times? Friend of mine did that cause he had too much time and knowledge for an airline F/O job he wanted. Made 3500hrs go away and a CP position, then they allowed him in. Nowadays he captains a very big Boeing product for a well respected airline. The airline he started with is a 100% subsidary of a very big European airline with a huge HR department. No insecure corperate peeps there - apparently....or are there some too?

Another friend of mine did fly for a company and wanted some leave (2 weeks), brought in a replacement freelance pilot. Coming back he found his termination on his desk. What the guy did to convince the owner to make them quit the other pilot I never learnt, but felt some sort of satisfaction when the traitor crash landed the airplane somewhat later because he did not secure the fuel caps and didn´t handle the short traffic circuit ensueing right. Sometimes there is justice....

During my career I have seen so many things like that (I have been the target of such behaviour myself, was lucky that my employer beliefed me and not the crook that went on to tell lies of epic proportion bout me...), that this IS a concern when employing a person I don´t know.
Luckily I don´t need to recruit someone for the time being. Its always a gamble.

Bottom line: if you think a CP has to be a person that neglects facts, personal experience and experiences of others plus has to go for the most expensive guy he could find, then you probably have it the wrong way round.

BTW, my colleague was a CP briefly himself. He hated the position. I like it - sort of - so there is no issue.

Dude - What can I say - You illustrate a reality where the deceptive and inexperienced rise to the top, where buddies get the job over skill sets.

I appreciate your honestly. Fortunately not all segments of aviation are hiring off the bottom.

Teldor... The guys writing these posts and the guys you have been talking to about getting hired, apparently, are saying the same thing to you...forget the credentials, nobody wants work with an a-hole.

Well, ksjc, since you put it that way....

GF

Hiring buddies over experience only exist in a world where the boxes in the nose do the flying.

Should by some miracle they decide they want pilots again, there will be a housecleaning in aviation like you wouldn't believe...and it starts by just putting everyone in the sim, iron gyros, and have them shoot a couple of approaches - no gps, no efis screens...I doubt 20% of the pilots out there would make it.

But why would we have to go back to old gyros....
Technology has evolved and made aviation safer, its true that most younger pilot have no clues about an NDB approach but why should they as RNAV one's are more precise?

Teldo

Unless we are going back to "sacred six" instruments and fixed card ADFs, what's your point? Yes, I flew jet penetrations to NDB final in F-100, penetration speed was 300 knots, boards out, descent at around 3,000 fpm to a RMI final at 166 plus fuel, but why is that important to a pilot with all the latest?

BTW. the conversion from steam to glass wasn't the easiest, either.

GF

Well my guess is that if we have enough crashes...such as crash landings on sunny days by 10,000 hour pilots, sooner or later the insurance companies, the passengers, will bitch enough to say 'enough'.

The point being is that we have gone way to long on enabling low experienced pilots to 'fly' a plane by pushing the right buttons and leaning on the boxes.

If no one cares, then it's the same old thing...when the boxes aren't there, idiots will continue to crash planes, under the watch of an apathetic FAA and chief pilots who sold out.

I'm tired of bitching about it. If no one cares, fine, lets all the planes crash, you are all too stupid to want to survive.

Now take your meds, put on your sleep apnea mask, take another happy pill...beats eating right and working out...right?

This is a generation of coddled and enabled.

Carry on...

Somebody needs a hug!

:hmm:

Is this yet another reincarnation of SSG? The writing appears similar !

Mutt

Gosh Mutt, is that the 'tell'...morality? Is that what triggers your radar? The only guy on PPRUNE that thinks you should know how to fly a plane before you sit in the seat?

Teldorserious,

QUOTE: "I'm tired of bitching about it. If no one cares, fine, lets all the planes crash, you are all too stupid to want to survive."

...."you are all too stupid"....coming quite obviously from an American who believes that the only pilots worthy of sitting on a flight deck, are those who can fly an NDB on a steam driven cockpit. :mad: :ugh: Get with the real world and grow up. Otherwise hand in your notice and "let all the planes crash".

Oh, and KSJC sums it up nicely.

An enraged SKP

A bit of topic, right?

Pilots tend generally to overestimate their skills - or did you ever met a guy saying "I am just an average pilot with average skills" ?

Plenty actually VJS. Anyone who isn't humble in this profession is incredibly stupid or incredibly ignorant, possibly both, considering the backgrounds of some of their fellow professionals.