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-   -   Citation 750 down in Egelsbach. (https://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc/478763-citation-750-down-egelsbach.html)

nomorecatering 5th Jul 2012 11:01

I think the talk about runway lengths, IFR into VFR is off the mark.

The case where an aircraft can impact reletively flat ground with the engines at flight idle, speedbrakes out etc indicates very poor situational awarenes. Who was watching the shop when they went below the MDA. Even the most inexperianced night VFR student has this hammered into them. Monitor distance, altitude and flight path.

Btw, 1400m shouldnt be a problem for a C750. They put 737-800s into snow covered runways that are 1500m long at Midway.

jetopa 5th Jul 2012 11:23


Who was watching the shop when they went below the MDA.
Very true.

Nordstrom 15th Jul 2012 01:57

From the sidelines.
 
I have watched this thread from a distance since the accident, and briefly scimmed the report of the local authorities this morning over coffee.

Weather was obviously a contributing factor in the accident, but not the killer. Secondly, pilot inexperience should not be over looked, both had min. experience at best, this is not to say they did not have skill, but experience and skill are different. Experience is the decision making process that is used to avoid situations so you don't have to use your skills.

The approach was not stabilized, speed, rate of descent all indicated that this was going to have the potential to turn out terribly wrong from the onset.

Landing flaps appear to have confused both pilots on short final approach when the pitch of aircraft drastically changed aircraft attitude to pitch down and likely prompted the EGPWS warning, they were off profile at this point anyway but still alive.

If fully configured and stable on initial approach this probably could have been avoided or at least maybe their skills could have gotten them out of this.

But I fear the biggest factor outside of what is mentioned above is the EGPWS warning and their inappropriate action to it.

The plane was fast, the descent profile was erradict, full flaps deployed at mid 100s and gear deployed. Ok...............

ACTION
Autopilot disconnect, pitch up to PLI (pitch limit indicator-max power )(simultaneously) this would be the initial recovery procedure to start with then flaps, gear etc etc

It appears the EGPWS warning was managed all on use of autopilot i.e. utilizing the altitude select control wheel to climb out of a terrain warning and power set at 34%.

That is not experience or skill working together at all.

The radio work was good though.

Sadly we have lost people to an accident that could have been avoided by a number of measures.

R.i.P. my sincere heart felt condolences to all the friends and family touched by this tragic event.

Jetstar2Pilot 14th Sep 2012 11:36

Nordstrom......very well written observations on your part. It appears to me that you are "spot on" with your analysis of this tragic event.

Soooooo unavoidable, I do agree

RIP to those who perished.

Fly Safely to all of us.........


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