The shortest runway you have ever landed wth jet?
Small survey:
The shortest runway you have ever landed with jet? Cessna 525 CJ1 - 900 m (2953ft) - ferry pilot I flew with told me he landed at 600 m Cessna 560 XLS+ - 900 m (2953ft) - my TRI told me he landed at 800 m Yogi |
Ganderkesee EDWQ in Germany is 836 m, LDA 799 m.
It is the Head office of Atlas Air Service, the biggest Cessna Dealer in Germany. The Airfield is very often approached by all kind of citations. Been there with a straight CJ and CJ3 a couple of times. Inbalance |
Powwatka Ridge Airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I used to take an SII in and out of here fairly regularly...top that... |
Citation SII, CJ3 and C680 Sovereign in and out of Virginia Airport, Durban, South Africa on a regular basis. 3000 ft rwy length.
Much scarier in a loaded 1900 than any of the jets. |
CE501, EGTR, 651m/2135' with room to spare.
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So did you guys have the required balanced field on the way out.....
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Required? Yes. Desired? No
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I've landed a CJ1 at Marina di Campo on Elba, which is 949m, albeit with an uphill slope that helps. I probably had about 100m to spare.
However, it is possible to go much shorter than the manual suggests. The most extreme I have ever seen was as P2 in a CJ that landed at on 21 at Brudel and exited at C - probably about 550m. The PIC had never before attempted such a short runway, so was trying his hardest (possibly too hard) and in a light aircraft. The tower were rather surprised as even the PC12s based there normally exit at D: http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/9770/budel.jpg |
Any bigger machines?
Any bigger machines? I heard Falcons are remarkable runway performers.
Yogi |
Did my very first landing on a CJ2 (during the on-aircraft rating) at
Coburg - EDQC - with 2822ft runway lenght. Canīt say I felt to comfy, but the airplane was light and in the end it wasnīt that hard. Next landing then was in Ganderkesee. Since 4 years we operate a Sovereign out of a 3323 LDA/3694ft TODA rwy. No prob at all until now, but definitely not the place to have a brake failure... If at lower weights (e.g. 4000lbs fuel plus 3-4 pax) we are airborne way before the 1/2 way markers, that is an estimated roll of 400 to 450mtrs. Quite impressive for a jet at 23000lbs...works quite well on my wrinkles, too... :ok: even at 30300lbs/15°C she is off after 600-650 mtrs (again an estimate) Used to be a Elba a few times in a Citation V. Canīt say landing was an issue, I always was a bit tense regarding bird strikes and go arounds against the hills there... Just looked up Powwatka Ridge Airport, at 3340ft elevation. Hats off to you, you are a brave man. I had the displeasure of flying an SII for quite some time and I always thought she is a real runway dog. We used to fly to southern Italy a lot and when the regularly used airport was closed for Nato use during military action in Bosnia I think, we used Foggia. 4718 ft runway at 267ft elevation. We needed the almost the whole runway with 8 pax and 2 hours worth of fuel. It was hot (IIRC around 42C). I hate seeing hedges that close during initial climb.... |
Elba, in an 560XL. Fun - and an even more fun departure :)
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For reference and not strictly GA (although I doubt it came in under public transport ;) ).
A/C: 747SP Airfield: Rand airport SA. (elevation 1600 metres), length just under 1500 metres and width... 15 metres. Information about Rand Airport - World airport database |
There was a Citation, belonged to Ferranti, based at Castlebar back in the late 70s/early 80s. As far as I can find out the runway length was 610 metres. I do remember it being mention as being 600 yards. I did know a guy who claimed th have taken in out on one engine.
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There have been some remarkably short field landings by passenger jets on final ferry flights - the Comet into Strathallen & the BAC1-11 into Brooklands are two which spring to mind.
Guess it helps if you know the aircraft will not need to be used againhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ilies/evil.gif. |
Falcon 50 on 800m rwy, ferry flight.
There is a Challenger operating regularly into LSZL (800m) |
Who needs runways
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Hi,
not the shortest runway ever but pretty impressive (and frightening): Heinz-Dieter Kallbach landed an IL 62 on a 860m gras strip. The ex-Interflug plane was still in one piece after this... Kind regards, Peter PS: HD Kallbach was the Germania pilot who was beaten up for minutes together with his FO after a lunatic entered his front office in 2000 and tried to kill them with the fire axe... |
Thruxton in a Citation 500 but no fuel or PAX. Landing not so bad but takeoff all you can do is MAX thrust on the brakes and wait for the numbers so careful on weight and temps or you will be still waiting for the numbers past the hedge
Pace |
Ahh Insomniac, I was hoping someone would bring up good ole Walikale...
Those were the days my friend, especially when the muddy runoff from the hill used cover the runway, and you had to use 'the force' to stay pointing in the right direction!:D |
Enjoyed watching a Challenger 300 slipping comfortably in and out of EGLK (c.1200m) on a few occasions last year.
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How long will it be before a Harrier jock pitches in
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they don't generally make it onto the Bizjet stage...:E
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727-100, 4,800 feet. (KEYW)
Falcon 50EX, 3,500 feet. Oh, and was also able to takeoff again on the same runway. |
Friend of mine landed a Global (min Fuel, 20 kt headwind) on a carrier in Hong Kong harbour during his recurrent in the sim....Oh, and then took off again!!!
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Ah, yes, riding the low-speed cue to a slam-dunk, then standing on the brakes as you skid spinning sideways down the 400 metres of deck, coming to a halt with your tail hanging off the end. Might not do that with Mr Big in the back.
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Scary to think 90% of you guys would would have killed everyone on board with an engine fart prior to V1...what heroes!
While getting in is part of the challenge, knowing you can get out, no matter what is the other part...lacking that, your just a cowboy who's boss has entrusted the wrong guy to fly the plane...let's hear it for reliable equipment...tends to make up for guys that don't fly with a back up plan. Just sayin. |
Not really. Have a look at the BFL figures for all the above AC when loaded with fuel for a 15 nm hop.
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There have been some remarkably short field landings by passenger jets on final ferry flights - the Comet into Strathallen springs to mind. |
Well if you want BFL..... a low BOW Global will use less than 2,400ft (750m) for T/O @sea level and -15c and 3000lb of fuel and only 2,200 (670m) ALD .....and add only an extra 200ft for ISA.
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kanetoads Scary to think 90% of you guys would would have killed everyone on board with an engine fart prior to V1...what heroes! While getting in is part of the challenge, knowing you can get out, no matter what is the other part...lacking that, your just a cowboy who's boss has entrusted the wrong guy to fly the plane...let's hear it for reliable equipment...tends to make up for guys that don't fly with a back up plan. Just sayin. With the above posting you are showing that you donīt have any experience on Falcons, Citations or similar Aircraft. Why do you open your mouth ? Just one example about the the aircraft I fly at the moment, the C525B. Take Off Field Length at 9596 lbs, thats one Pilot with 1000 lbs of fuel, is: 2707 ft. TODA at Ganderkesee is 836 Meters, or 2743 ft. We do ferry flights to that airport only, so no Pax and very light. Dry Runway only. Do you think thats unsafe ? Even more unsafe than Holiday charters to the greek islands during summer, where the big carriers have to leave some baggage behind because the runway is short and the outside temperature is above 40° C? Landing distance there is 2258 ft with 9200 lbs Landing Weight. Thats 688 Meter. LDA is 799 Meter. Landing distance is 50 feet above Threshold. I tend to touch the runway at the threshold, so I save a lot of feet and I usualy get to a stand still in Ganderkesee at taxiway C thats 600 meters. So if you donīt have any clue, please do me a favor and mind you own business. Inbalance |
We used to do touch and goes on 7,000 in the C-5
Shortest in a Global--about 4,000 at Bora Bora. In a CE-500, 2,900 at Newport, RI. At EAL, KEYW was 727-100 stop. |
Imbalance, I call BS.
You throw around single pilot ops like it's nothing...sorry..and the idiot that departs in a jet with 1000 lbs is beyond stupid...even with a runway three minutes away...a simple closure, a gear problem, quickly turns into an emergency, and you don't have 30 minutes as VFR reserve anyway sitting around at say 5000 feet of alt if that was the 'hop' your talking about. I question a balanced field of 2700 ft, but even so, is that is a private op, or is it charter? If charter, your outside regs...unless your playing that game of private this trip, public that trip. And all said and done...the reason why you would need to fly into a 2700 ft strip given another one is so close by? Can't be fuel, can't be jet maintenance...what reason to 'ferry' into that short strip to take that risk? Even if everything you say is true, you can call the pilot up and call him a moron for me, because if there is a longer runway close by as you say, so close that justifies departing with only 1000 lbs of fuel, then there was no reason to go into the short runway to begin with, which questions the point of doing it all, questions the judgment which means a) your full of it b) that outfit is full of morons. You pick. |
From the Falcon 7X QRH:
ISA MSL BFL at 42000 lbs (four pax fuel for 45 mins flight plus reserves - approx) 2515 ft / 766 meters. LD at 40000 lbs 2125 ft / 748 meters (pvt) or 3548 ft/ 1081 meters with 1.67. You will probably have PCN issues first. It also has to be a hard surface. The numbers work. Landing RWY27 at EGLC and making TWY D (2500 feet) is never an issue although you generally continue to TWY B. Max |
There are Falcon 900 and 7x that regularly operate (VFR) in to Saanen, LSGK. I think its 1400 m, so not that short, but requires a bit more hand flying skills than the average vectored ILS approach. :ok:
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Kanetoads
It's very easy to underestimate modern bizjets, in testing the 680 got stopped in 1200ft ground roll at max landing, it's got the same brakes as the 750 which weighs 6k lbs more. Whether you believe them or not is up to you but to call BS without the AFM to hand could well leave you with egg on your face. I was Asked to visit Ganderkeesee in February but declined and went to Bremen, the boss is still moaning about it now, if the AFM says it's doable, the insurance is valid you need a reason to say No and since when does the boss apply logic to what he asks you to do? |
Not jets but some of my better pupils in action.
No AFM'S or QRH'S in sight. Real pilots and not computer operators!
4um: Doyle, Cuzoom Win Annual Valdez STOL Competition |
Seen a couple of 727-100's, 727-200(RE) and a 757 at Guernsey, Channel Islands (4800ft).
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Max your so full of crap....I have never seen a Falcon operate out of a 2500 ft field, and I've been doing this along time.
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Just because you have not seen it does not mean it is not possible....and legal!:ok:
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A4O-AB VC10, after being donated to the Brooklands Museum by Sultan Qaboos of Oman, landing on what was left of Weybridge's short runway.
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