Biz Jets at Heathrow
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Biz Jets at Heathrow
Why is it that Biz jet Captains and the handlers of these aircraft when using Heathrow get disgruntled when their aircraft are "nosed in" when marshalled onto stand instead of being turned. Perhaps its because they want to save a few seconds on the pushback !!!. perhaps you can let me know.
The other day a Biz parked on 307 and was rather dismayed to find himself nosed in and took it out on the marshaller who deemed it unsafe to turn.
As for the excuse of not having a towbar well what would happen if your posh little jet became disabled on the runway . are we expected to push it off or perhaps wait until the handler gets a tow bar from Luton ?? I am sure BA would have something to say about a closed runway for 4 hours just because the handler of a 8 seat biz hasnt a towbar !
Heathrow as stated in the AIP is a " NOSE IN" airport.
Get used to it
The other day a Biz parked on 307 and was rather dismayed to find himself nosed in and took it out on the marshaller who deemed it unsafe to turn.
As for the excuse of not having a towbar well what would happen if your posh little jet became disabled on the runway . are we expected to push it off or perhaps wait until the handler gets a tow bar from Luton ?? I am sure BA would have something to say about a closed runway for 4 hours just because the handler of a 8 seat biz hasnt a towbar !
Heathrow as stated in the AIP is a " NOSE IN" airport.
Get used to it
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8 seater biz jets typically dont carry towbars and they can turn well within the area of a 737 if needed. You should see some of the areas that we turn around on in the cargo ramp areas. The marshaller was obviously a prat in this case and the captain should have refused to taxi into somewhere he can't get his aircraft out of.
Besides, why do you have a bee in your bonnet about this?, were you the marshaller in question or something.
The bigger biz jets carry tow bar bits, do airliners/bus's?
gimp..
Besides, why do you have a bee in your bonnet about this?, were you the marshaller in question or something.
The bigger biz jets carry tow bar bits, do airliners/bus's?
gimp..
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Quote:
As for the excuse of not having a towbar well what would happen if your posh little jet became disabled on the runway . are we expected to push it off or perhaps wait until the handler gets a tow bar from Luton ?? I am sure BA would have something to say about a closed runway for 4 hours just because the handler of a 8 seat biz hasnt a towbar !
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I would wait for the towbar.
What would BA say, if, for example, A 320 runs a flat on the runway of an Airport that has no Nosein stands and therefore no towbar / Tugs, and one would dare to destroy / damage their AC in order to clear the RWY ?
One could ask himself, why an aerodrome like LHR couldnīt afford, say 5 different towbars. (One landing fee would buy one for my CJ2 - that one fits all small citations.
SD, we have the RIGHT to operate into LHR.
Beeing parked overnight on the freight ramp at LHR (nosein first), I was asked wether I could turn out of that bay. I said I could.
Next morning, for a 06:30 departure, we arrived at 0545 at the Airplane to find it enclosed by parking lorries and other vehicles. ON AN AIRCRAFT STAND (Z-Apron, stand 307) [A757 can use this stand, I was told, its a BIG one)
Luckily, the Handler managed to find the drivers.
Exactly thats why I always ask to be parked so, that I can leave the place without any help.
As for the excuse of not having a towbar well what would happen if your posh little jet became disabled on the runway . are we expected to push it off or perhaps wait until the handler gets a tow bar from Luton ?? I am sure BA would have something to say about a closed runway for 4 hours just because the handler of a 8 seat biz hasnt a towbar !
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I would wait for the towbar.
What would BA say, if, for example, A 320 runs a flat on the runway of an Airport that has no Nosein stands and therefore no towbar / Tugs, and one would dare to destroy / damage their AC in order to clear the RWY ?
One could ask himself, why an aerodrome like LHR couldnīt afford, say 5 different towbars. (One landing fee would buy one for my CJ2 - that one fits all small citations.
SD, we have the RIGHT to operate into LHR.
Beeing parked overnight on the freight ramp at LHR (nosein first), I was asked wether I could turn out of that bay. I said I could.
Next morning, for a 06:30 departure, we arrived at 0545 at the Airplane to find it enclosed by parking lorries and other vehicles. ON AN AIRCRAFT STAND (Z-Apron, stand 307) [A757 can use this stand, I was told, its a BIG one)
Luckily, the Handler managed to find the drivers.
Exactly thats why I always ask to be parked so, that I can leave the place without any help.
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I think you guys are missing the point.
1) aircraft are nosed in due to safety issues regarding blast and fumes. This is a particular issue on cargo stands where the cargo shed doors are open. The guys working in that environment do not wish to be fumigated by jet fumes. Also the amount of frieght around the stands ( not nessecarily on the stands) can be blasted.
2) as for aircraft who power themselves off stand. Do the Captains really know whats behind them ??? Or perhaps wing mirrors are fitted as standard !!! . Dont forget in winter conditions where grit has been used on airside roads this can easily get blasted into a cargo workers eye !!
3) BAA/HAL are not responsible for supplying towbars, The handler is, and yes a lot of the bigger biz jets do carry towbars they are just to lazy to use them and im talking about G5's and Bombadiers.
Think about the above.
1) aircraft are nosed in due to safety issues regarding blast and fumes. This is a particular issue on cargo stands where the cargo shed doors are open. The guys working in that environment do not wish to be fumigated by jet fumes. Also the amount of frieght around the stands ( not nessecarily on the stands) can be blasted.
2) as for aircraft who power themselves off stand. Do the Captains really know whats behind them ??? Or perhaps wing mirrors are fitted as standard !!! . Dont forget in winter conditions where grit has been used on airside roads this can easily get blasted into a cargo workers eye !!
3) BAA/HAL are not responsible for supplying towbars, The handler is, and yes a lot of the bigger biz jets do carry towbars they are just to lazy to use them and im talking about G5's and Bombadiers.
Think about the above.
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Quote:
1) aircraft are nosed in due to safety issues regarding blast and fumes. This is a particular issue on cargo stands where the cargo shed doors are open. The guys working in that environment do not wish to be fumigated by jet fumes. Also the amount of frieght around the stands ( not nessecarily on the stands) can be blasted.
Fumes point taken.
Quote:
2) as for aircraft who power themselves off stand. Do the Captains really know whats behind them ??? Or perhaps wing mirrors are fitted as standard !!! . Dont forget in winter conditions where grit has been used on airside roads this can easily get blasted into a cargo workers eye !!
We have the optional wing mirrors installed...
Back to the point: Thats why there are marshallers. As for the grit: what about the aircraft on the opposite side taxying into stand ? Any 757/747/767 sized aeroplane will have more idle thrust than we at medium to high power. Their fumes and their ever running APUs are not a problem ?
Quote:
3) BAA/HAL are not responsible for supplying towbars, The handler is, and yes a lot of the bigger biz jets do carry towbars they are just to lazy to use them and im talking about G5's and Bombadiers.
Iīm just a CJ2 driver, canīt speak for them. But Iīd doubt that any pilot asked polity for his A/Cīs towbar wouldnīt use it, just because his is lazy.
As for the handlers: One big problem is, thereīs no fixed stands for GA, where they could have their stuff.
1) aircraft are nosed in due to safety issues regarding blast and fumes. This is a particular issue on cargo stands where the cargo shed doors are open. The guys working in that environment do not wish to be fumigated by jet fumes. Also the amount of frieght around the stands ( not nessecarily on the stands) can be blasted.
Fumes point taken.
Quote:
2) as for aircraft who power themselves off stand. Do the Captains really know whats behind them ??? Or perhaps wing mirrors are fitted as standard !!! . Dont forget in winter conditions where grit has been used on airside roads this can easily get blasted into a cargo workers eye !!
We have the optional wing mirrors installed...
Back to the point: Thats why there are marshallers. As for the grit: what about the aircraft on the opposite side taxying into stand ? Any 757/747/767 sized aeroplane will have more idle thrust than we at medium to high power. Their fumes and their ever running APUs are not a problem ?
Quote:
3) BAA/HAL are not responsible for supplying towbars, The handler is, and yes a lot of the bigger biz jets do carry towbars they are just to lazy to use them and im talking about G5's and Bombadiers.
Iīm just a CJ2 driver, canīt speak for them. But Iīd doubt that any pilot asked polity for his A/Cīs towbar wouldnīt use it, just because his is lazy.
As for the handlers: One big problem is, thereīs no fixed stands for GA, where they could have their stuff.
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Hello SD, hello everybody !
This is getting grumpy quite quickly ! (not helped by phrases like 'posh little jet' or whatever it was !)
I fly the Global Express, and I'm told (but I've not tried it out under lab conditions or anything..) but I'm told that it's possible to avoid an obstacle 7 feet from the aircraft windshield. Now I'm not sure about other jets, but you'd be surprised about their turning circles. However, this would take quite a bit of assymetric thrust and one of the brakes on. This would certainly throw debris right across the parking stands and possibly dig up the tarmac.
The residual thrust on the Global and GIV is just about enough for taxiing off from a flat ramp - as it is at Heathrow so I really don't think that this is too much of an issue (we're not talking about 777 engines after all), and as has been pointed out, the marshaller is there to see what's up behind otherwise there's not too much point in having them (Northolt's a good one - no aircraft for miles, nothing to bump into, rather boring really, but woe betide you if you start without the man in the white coat).
I've found the marshallers at LHR to be superb, and can't ever remember being nosed in there. But SD, please remember that 'us lot' are often one ship operations without the back up of immediately available technical support, without engineers, and well used by need to having to do everything ourselves. So, as Airking said, we have to protect against being boxed in because we don't usually have the contacts to find out who might be doing the boxing (if you'll excuse the crap English).
We do actually carry a tow bar on the Global (and we do on the GIV too) but in both cases it is a 10 minute job to get it out of the hell hole and a ten minute job to get it back (it's all in bits and fantastically inaccessible) - with the APU on it is a bit of a noisy and messy job. This is not ideal in pressed white shirt with up to a 13 hour sector ahead.
I kind of get the impression that you don't like biz jets, well that's ok, I don't like airliners too much, but don't judge us all by some short tempered little chap, you'll find them all over aviation it's just that you get to deal directly with them (I nearly said 'us' !) on biz jets.
Would be pleased to show you round ours sometime if you drop me a line
OGS
This is getting grumpy quite quickly ! (not helped by phrases like 'posh little jet' or whatever it was !)
I fly the Global Express, and I'm told (but I've not tried it out under lab conditions or anything..) but I'm told that it's possible to avoid an obstacle 7 feet from the aircraft windshield. Now I'm not sure about other jets, but you'd be surprised about their turning circles. However, this would take quite a bit of assymetric thrust and one of the brakes on. This would certainly throw debris right across the parking stands and possibly dig up the tarmac.
The residual thrust on the Global and GIV is just about enough for taxiing off from a flat ramp - as it is at Heathrow so I really don't think that this is too much of an issue (we're not talking about 777 engines after all), and as has been pointed out, the marshaller is there to see what's up behind otherwise there's not too much point in having them (Northolt's a good one - no aircraft for miles, nothing to bump into, rather boring really, but woe betide you if you start without the man in the white coat).
I've found the marshallers at LHR to be superb, and can't ever remember being nosed in there. But SD, please remember that 'us lot' are often one ship operations without the back up of immediately available technical support, without engineers, and well used by need to having to do everything ourselves. So, as Airking said, we have to protect against being boxed in because we don't usually have the contacts to find out who might be doing the boxing (if you'll excuse the crap English).
We do actually carry a tow bar on the Global (and we do on the GIV too) but in both cases it is a 10 minute job to get it out of the hell hole and a ten minute job to get it back (it's all in bits and fantastically inaccessible) - with the APU on it is a bit of a noisy and messy job. This is not ideal in pressed white shirt with up to a 13 hour sector ahead.
I kind of get the impression that you don't like biz jets, well that's ok, I don't like airliners too much, but don't judge us all by some short tempered little chap, you'll find them all over aviation it's just that you get to deal directly with them (I nearly said 'us' !) on biz jets.
Would be pleased to show you round ours sometime if you drop me a line
OGS
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Gentlemen
I dont think we should continue to allow ourselves to be wound up by that individual "SD"
It is quite clear from the way he words his "oppinion" that either he is a begrudged, dissappointed pilot wannabee or has some other hidden agenda.
(More landingfees to be had with a 737 no doubt......)
Therefore lets just ignore him and the likes of him. Thank you.
I dont think we should continue to allow ourselves to be wound up by that individual "SD"
It is quite clear from the way he words his "oppinion" that either he is a begrudged, dissappointed pilot wannabee or has some other hidden agenda.
(More landingfees to be had with a 737 no doubt......)
Therefore lets just ignore him and the likes of him. Thank you.
