Flying for an individual
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Flying for an individual
Hi all,
I'm sure I'm overthinking this, but trying to find the relevant legislation returned very little useful information - and getting through to someone at the UK CAA with useful info is like drawing blood from a stone.
Can someone confirm the rules on flying for an individual.
Case in point; acquaintance of mine (who has no flying credentials) has recently purchased a new MEP (he is the owner/operator), one which I have had differences training and am current on. I have a UK CPL with ME/IR. He has asked if I can on occasion fly him in the plane to where he wants to go for leisure or for him to manage his business etc.
1. Can I fly him?
2. Can I fly him, and he covers all the costs for the flight (ie. no cost sharing required)?
3. If requested, can I fly the aircraft with him and other pax on board and he again, covers all costs?
4. If requested, can I fly the aircraft without him on board, but his immediate family or friends, and if so, can he cover all the costs (or does this fall under PT/CAT?)
Apologies if this seems a little naive, but would like clarification before jumping into something I shouldn't be doing.
Thanks
I'm sure I'm overthinking this, but trying to find the relevant legislation returned very little useful information - and getting through to someone at the UK CAA with useful info is like drawing blood from a stone.
Can someone confirm the rules on flying for an individual.
Case in point; acquaintance of mine (who has no flying credentials) has recently purchased a new MEP (he is the owner/operator), one which I have had differences training and am current on. I have a UK CPL with ME/IR. He has asked if I can on occasion fly him in the plane to where he wants to go for leisure or for him to manage his business etc.
1. Can I fly him?
2. Can I fly him, and he covers all the costs for the flight (ie. no cost sharing required)?
3. If requested, can I fly the aircraft with him and other pax on board and he again, covers all costs?
4. If requested, can I fly the aircraft without him on board, but his immediate family or friends, and if so, can he cover all the costs (or does this fall under PT/CAT?)
Apologies if this seems a little naive, but would like clarification before jumping into something I shouldn't be doing.
Thanks
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Yep, you can - the most important thing is that he's not profiting from the flight. You can and should be paid for the service of piloting as well.
Only word of caution I can offer is that flying for an owner requires really knowing your stuff as you may and probably will have to say no from time to time, due to weather/aircraft tech issues etc It may well happen that his business is delayed because you can't get where you're going. Be well briefed.
There's plenty of complexities but you should enjoy yourself as well.
Only word of caution I can offer is that flying for an owner requires really knowing your stuff as you may and probably will have to say no from time to time, due to weather/aircraft tech issues etc It may well happen that his business is delayed because you can't get where you're going. Be well briefed.
There's plenty of complexities but you should enjoy yourself as well.
The answer is yes. If the aircraft has a max certified take of mass of 5700Kgs or more you will need to comply with Part NCO. It is not difficult.
I have hung up my headset now days so have no agenda but still consider my knowledge to be current so if you would like someone to talk with to help you out a little bit feel free to PM me.
MM
I have hung up my headset now days so have no agenda but still consider my knowledge to be current so if you would like someone to talk with to help you out a little bit feel free to PM me.
MM
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Avoid imitations
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Did that full time for over twenty years.
Note that you do need a Class 1 medical if your primary job is to fly for an individual.
Beware, Boabity is right! Sometimes passengers try to overrule the captain’s decision. Also their PA might claim to know more about the weather conditions than the METAR….
Note that you do need a Class 1 medical if your primary job is to fly for an individual.
Beware, Boabity is right! Sometimes passengers try to overrule the captain’s decision. Also their PA might claim to know more about the weather conditions than the METAR….
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Did that full time for over twenty years.
Note that you do need a Class 1 medical if your primary job is to fly for an individual.
Beware, Boabity is right! Sometimes passengers try to overrule the captain’s decision. Also their PA might claim to know more about the weather conditions than the METAR….
Note that you do need a Class 1 medical if your primary job is to fly for an individual.
Beware, Boabity is right! Sometimes passengers try to overrule the captain’s decision. Also their PA might claim to know more about the weather conditions than the METAR….
Curious as to your guys thoughts on flying the owner / operators friends with them in / not in the plane?
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Curious as to your guys thoughts on flying the owner / operators friends with them in / not in the plane?
As long as it's not out for commercial charter you can fly anyone in the plane at any time subject to the owners approval obvs.
I really recommend that you take some advice from Miles Magister though, he can keep you right on planning and how to manage any flying you do.
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And as others already said: Learn to say "No!" right from the beginning. Boss calls you in the evening: Can you fly me and my wife to Mallorca tomorrow morning? Sure! You make the plans, fuel the plane for the trip and in the morning he brings two extra friends and two dogs and four bags of golf clubs. Plus four massive suitcases. Makes your plane at least 500lb overweight. Boss says: No problem, the seller told me it's a strong plane that can easily handle it and my buddy Joe in Texas flies like that all the time! If you accept it one time you will have to do it always. Say NO! the first time. If he threatens to get himself another pilot let him do so!
Jam9999
Sorry, bad typo on my earlier post which changed the whole meaning, my mistake.
The conditions which move you from Part NCO into Part NCC are
(j) ‘complex motor-powered aircraft’ shall mean:
(i) an aeroplane:
— with a maximum certificated take-off mass exceeding 5 700 kg, or
— certificated for a maximum passenger seating configuration of more than nineteen, or
— certificated for operation with a minimum crew of at least two pilots, or
— equipped with (a) turbojet engine(s) or more than one turboprop engine,
Sorry, bad typo on my earlier post which changed the whole meaning, my mistake.
The conditions which move you from Part NCO into Part NCC are
(j) ‘complex motor-powered aircraft’ shall mean:
(i) an aeroplane:
— with a maximum certificated take-off mass exceeding 5 700 kg, or
— certificated for a maximum passenger seating configuration of more than nineteen, or
— certificated for operation with a minimum crew of at least two pilots, or
— equipped with (a) turbojet engine(s) or more than one turboprop engine,
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Totally fine so long as it's no more than a cost share, how that share is worked out is another thing entirely, I suspect they're allowed to pay for the fuel and the landing/handling fees etc but you'd need to ask Miles and ShyTorque about that.
In circumstances where the pilot is an employee of the aircraft owner (or company), holds a commercial license and the required Class 1 medical certificate, he or she isn't required by law to share the operating costs. The operating costs may be entirely met by the aircraft owner. The pilot can be paid by the aircraft owner.
As stated above though, if anyone else on the aircraft is required to provide payment to be flown, that is where an AOC IS required. A private owner employing his own pilot/s is not required to hold an AOC.
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You misunderstood me. I was talking about a cost share between the owner and the owners guests. I don't know the specific regulation surrounding that as it's never been anything I've dealt with but I understood that it was acceptable for passengers of an airplane to reimburse some of the costs of the flight to the owner.
I already mentioned that he most definitely should be paid for flying the plane for them.
I already mentioned that he most definitely should be paid for flying the plane for them.
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Mr. Google knows it: https://www.caa.co.uk/General-aviati...aring-flights/
It does certainly not apply to this kind of operation here. Anyway, how can you expect to get paid decent money from an owner who can't pay for his own plane but has to share the cost among his passengers?
It does certainly not apply to this kind of operation here. Anyway, how can you expect to get paid decent money from an owner who can't pay for his own plane but has to share the cost among his passengers?
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In the USA/FAA world.....FAR 91.501 is a good read for "sharing" one's aircraft. One feature whereby you can "charge" double the fuel cost for (the) flight makes me
nervous.
The bird I fly for one individual loves to gulp fuel at such a rate that doubling the fuel cost would be more than the FAR 135 profit, in most cases. (Profit? 135? WTF?)
Unless the "sharee" knows the "sharer" it is a lost cause if asked anything. Most "sharers" own their own ship....if in MX, call your buddy with his own ship not in MX.
NBAA used to have a good read about this. But be careful! This reg begs to be misunderstood, thus, a dark grey cloud over your head. Registered mail sucks.
Cheers.
nervous.
The bird I fly for one individual loves to gulp fuel at such a rate that doubling the fuel cost would be more than the FAR 135 profit, in most cases. (Profit? 135? WTF?)
Unless the "sharee" knows the "sharer" it is a lost cause if asked anything. Most "sharers" own their own ship....if in MX, call your buddy with his own ship not in MX.
NBAA used to have a good read about this. But be careful! This reg begs to be misunderstood, thus, a dark grey cloud over your head. Registered mail sucks.
Cheers.
