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Will it work?

Old 9th Nov 2019, 09:25
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JRK
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Will it work?

New startup called Jetclass (jetclass.com) is offering seats on business jets at or even below business class rates on some popular city pairs in Europe.
Will it be another flop like Jetsmarter? They don't have any quirky membership schemes though like those which underpinned Jetsmarter's model.
The case for bypassing congestion of big airports and offering private jet-like service for C fares sounds at least interesting...
What do you think? Will it work?
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Old 9th Nov 2019, 18:14
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Originally Posted by JRK View Post
Will it work?
No. No. No. (had to repeat my "No" several times becuause a reply can not have less than 10 characters on this forum.)
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Old 11th Nov 2019, 12:14
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do you know the hourly cost in europe. make the calcs and take your own conclusion
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Old 11th Nov 2019, 17:04
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Originally Posted by JRK View Post
New startup called Jetclass (jetclass.com) is offering seats on business jets at or even below business class rates on some popular city pairs in Europe.
Will it be another flop like Jetsmarter? They don't have any quirky membership schemes though like those which underpinned Jetsmarter's model.
The case for bypassing congestion of big airports and offering private jet-like service for C fares sounds at least interesting...
What do you think? Will it work?
Looking at the website, it seems to be offering seats on a Beechjet only, and given the sparse "schedule", I would assume this is making use of empty sectors. This might be an operator dressing up their empty legs which are already paid for elsewhere. The FAQ is very light on details as to what happens if the flight is cancelled - this is always the risk with cut price empty sector legs piggybacking onto a paid charter. It's a very limited niche - but maybe the company behind it has identified a frequently flown series of flights on a limited "network" (maybe a longer term contract / corporate client) and it could work as long as those flights are happening. What should be cause for pause is the lack of details - it obviously isn't quite as straightforward as advertised in so much as there are limited days flown; it's not a scheduled commercial air transport flight; etc... but otherwise good luck to them. If they can make some profit off it, more power to them.
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Old 11th Nov 2019, 20:25
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It won't work. By that I mean it won't expand as it's own business model as it is not possible to offers seats at these prices and make a profit. How do I know. Well I know that 4 is larger than 2. Hence, the maths of this were you have a cost higher than any possible revenue means it makes a loss. making a loss isn't the prime aim of good business..at least not as a basic business model. QED.

Now, if you have a regular paid activity covering a substantial part of the empty legs, and this is an idea to obtain extra revenue on this already contracted and paid for legs....well of course it may work, and good on them for trying interesting ways to obtain revenue...as longs as the costs again don't outweigh the revenue generated, The extra insurance costs may have to be factored in, the sale and distribution channel...the personnel to deal with the great unwashed, as the FBO/handling isn't going to play that role free of charge for any length of time...and the cost of dealing with the 'Public'...who at best are thick as planks in the most part, and incapable of following even the simplest instruction....even if they bother reading it. You're gonna need staff to take all the 'I'm at terminal 2 at the check-in desks and can't find GAT. !' goons.

Good luck.......................but there are other ways of doing this, realistically....without the hype......and being honest. It isn't every going to be a big money spinner....unless a sensible model can grow large and capture a large number of empty legs at zero cost to the operation....and then share the eventual sales with the operators...to make them interested.
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Old 12th Nov 2019, 06:53
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I was thinking more along the lines if bypassing big airport congestions would justify premium on such service for a usual c-class pax. Not necessarily what they quote now on the website. I did some rough mental calculations and on a normal day, off peak times you can still waste good 2-3 hours in cues and walking through the terminal. I wonder how much a frequently travelling businessman or a senior executive would value their time to pay some premium for bypassing all that and saving those 2-3 hours. Not to mention the added fatigue factor from the extra cueing, walking, waiting for boarding, disembarking, delays upon delays at each step of the way.
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Old 12th Nov 2019, 21:31
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Originally Posted by JRK View Post
I did some rough mental calculations ....
Me too. I looked at the Luxemburg-Zürich connection. They have available seats on three or four days in November at a fixed time (what are the chances that your executive will want to travel exactly then?).
At 390 Euros a seat. How many seats does a BeechJet have? Six? So even if they fill all those seats, they will collect something like 2300 Euros for the flight. Handling/airport costs for departure and destination will be in the order of 1000 Euros, airway charges 100, fuel 500. Leaves 800 Euros for capital cost, maintenance, crew, crew training, operations, dispatch, office rent, hangar, catering, pubilcity. administration, ...
This year the fifth company I worked for in the business aviation and trainng industry went bankrupt. I think I know all about financial failure that one can know... All five of "my" companies had far more solid business models than this one here.
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 08:01
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Originally Posted by what next View Post
Me too. I looked at the Luxemburg-Zürich connection. They have available seats on three or four days in November at a fixed time (what are the chances that your executive will want to travel exactly then?).
At 390 Euros a seat. How many seats does a BeechJet have? Six? So even if they fill all those seats, they will collect something like 2300 Euros for the flight. Handling/airport costs for departure and destination will be in the order of 1000 Euros, airway charges 100, fuel 500. Leaves 800 Euros for capital cost, maintenance, crew, crew training, operations, dispatch, office rent, hangar, catering, pubilcity. administration, ...
This year the fifth company I worked for in the business aviation and trainng industry went bankrupt. I think I know all about financial failure that one can know... All five of "my" companies had far more solid business models than this one here.
what next, I agree with you. I was just thinking broader about the business case. Ignoring their current fares for the moment (perhaps it's just an initial promo on already paid up empty sectors, as someone already suggested) - if their fares were higher, but the service effectively offers you significant time savings by avoiding big airports, do you think there would be a market for it? i.e. business ppl and company executives whose productive time is valuable to their companies.
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 14:39
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I wonder how much a frequently travelling businessman or a senior executive would value their time to pay some premium for bypassing all that and saving those 2-3 hours. Not to mention the added fatigue factor from the extra cueing, walking, waiting for boarding, disembarking, delays upon delays at each step of the way.
The business man wants more flights a day to be able to go home earlier or later and accepts the terminal in that case or he or she wants to fly when she wants and will have to take the full aircraft. Having a premium ticket but spends more time waiting makes no sense at all....
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Old 13th Nov 2019, 16:17
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Originally Posted by Aso View Post
The business man wants more flights a day to be able to go home earlier or later and accepts the terminal in that case or he or she wants to fly when she wants and will have to take the full aircraft. Having a premium ticket but spends more time waiting makes no sense at all....
Aso, but they won't be waiting more. You waste on average 2-3 hrs per journey in big airports when flying commercial, but it takes minutes to board private jet via FBO terminals. In terms of greater schedule flexibility you mentioned, this will just be another option among already available commercial, except with the added benefits of bypassing hub terminals and flying in a private jet setting. So, the businessman will in fact have more choice, not less. Not so? And why would they have to wait if they know they scheduled departure times in advance? In this regard it is no different to a standard airline itinerary...

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Old 13th Nov 2019, 19:33
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Hello!

Originally Posted by JRK View Post
You waste on average 2-3 hrs per journey in big airports when flying commercial, but it takes minutes to board private jet via FBO terminals....
You don't waste that much time when you fly business or first class. There are express lanes at check-in and security and whenerver an early check-in is required there will be a lounge for you where you can spend your time working or eating or both.

As others have already written, the typical business jet passenger chooses this type of transport because it will get him from A to B in the morning and onward to C in the evening - or D if the lady at C has made other arrangements but D is still an option...) according to his (flexible!) schedule without the need to coordinate his meeting times with airline schedules. He doesn't care the least whether his flight will cost him 430 Euros or 4300 or 43000. And many of these people do not want to share their plane with strangers for a variety of reasons. And additionally many bizjet customers don't fly between large airports but smaller airfields instead which are closer to their home and destination. Not something a company like this new startup will be able to provide.

But who knows, maybe their concept will get accepted by the market? Who thought ten years ago that something like Facebook would become a success...

Regards
Max
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 10:06
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JRK
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Max, I hear you...
I disagree though regarding waiting times. Security line, bag drop line and waiting for a delayed pax at the gate and so on. These delays are regardless of the class of travel. Cannot avoid them.
Not to mention the walking for miles around huge terminals from one place to the other, and the fact that business class lounges these days are no better than general waiting areas (in case of some airports actually worse).
Finally, the fact that your business class cabin on intraeuropean flights these days is nothing more than an economy cabin section in front of the plane. Seats are exactly the same.
Anyways, thanks for the input. Let's see where they land these guys... As you said, who knows? Perhaps in few years time they will enable us all to fly in a Global Express for a reasonable price
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 10:39
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Some of the aircraft on their website are single engine props, not jets. Others are VLJs that don't even have a proper toilet with a door.....

These light jets and very light jets are not intended to fly with all seats filled. It's literally more cramped and less comfortable than Ryanair. Two pax in a VLJ is fine. But six pax and you want a mid size at least, even for short flights. It's one thing of everyone knows each other such as a family traveling together. But six strangers cramped into a light jet or four strangers in a VLJ. Not a memorable experience. Certainly not in a good way.
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 10:46
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JRK
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733, that I definitely agree with. Those VLJ's are good for playing unintentional "footsy" with your fellow pax... also no good for taller folk
good observation
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 14:47
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My old boss once told me he would never again resort to a flying in a VVLJ, preferring to airline and limo it if need be. Having also found out how little the crew were paid, he also was uneasy about their competence, thinking they were unable to get an airline job at twice the pay. I told him that was unlikely, butI I could see where he was coming from.

The quite fun Sam Chui YouTuber has video of a jetsmarter shared trip on a much larger G4(?), and it looks like my idea of hell - sharing what's designed to be a private space with complete strangers you can't escape from for several hours.

Last edited by Joe le Taxi; 14th Nov 2019 at 14:57.
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 15:14
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JRK
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Joe, yes, good point. I mean its called a PRIVATE jet for a reason.

However, psychology is a strange thing. One has to ponder which end-user segments are these guys are targeting. Many popular products and services today are logically ridiculous and should be repulsive, yet many people love them. It was like that with LOCOS when they were starting - the central argument was that the "no frills" model will never work, because having in-flight amenities and food included in the ticket was an industry standard. And yet, here we are today...

In reference to Jetsmarter, as far as I understand they flopped not so much because it was 6-7 stranger sharing the jet, but for the fact that they effectively promised one thing but delivered another: the fixed membership fee essentially turned what was promised to be the pay-per-seat business jet service into just another fractional ownership scheme. And then, of course, too frequently they could not deliver on-demand. Hence, the customer felt cheated. I think that was the main issue.
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Old 14th Nov 2019, 16:03
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Ask Jeremy Corbyn what he thinks.....
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Old 15th Nov 2019, 14:29
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Originally Posted by dc9-32 View Post
Ask Jeremy Corbyn what he thinks.....
ummm......no.
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