Phenom 300 / Learjet 75

[DCTunltd]

Hello folks,

Could you please share your opinion on Phenom 300 and Learjet 75? Pros and cons? Corrosion problems? A/c reliability? Maintenance and AOGs?

Have you ever had any issues with Garmin caused by GPS jamming (over Russia/Ukraine, Cyprus, Israel)? How does it work in DR mode after GPS signal loss?

We are operating new CJ3+ but I wouldn’t call it a happy marriage... Bosses are looking for reliable alternative.

[FlyMD]

None of the aircraft in this category do well with a lost/jammed GPS signal...

if you are looking for an upgrade for the CJ3, the PC-24 should do nicely. Still young, but with the best warranty program and customer service in this class of airplanes...

[Klimax]

Well, we lose the GPS signals (jamming) all the time in the mentioned ME region on the G650 - but of course we have 3 IRS to fall back on for DR. Ususally it´s not more than 20 minutes at any one time - before they start coming back up. I guess the regions you refer to will let you down on the lack of dme/dme updating. What stage(s) of the flight is your concerns at - I´d assume cruise with airway fixes?

[DCTunltd]

I would rather wait with PC24 until they will improve it little bit (ex. insufficient rudder at eng failure on take off or available payload).

@Klimax I’m concerned about ability to use DME/DME. Recently have lost GPS signal on departure from LCLK. Suddenly in DR mode FMS calculated 90kts HW that caused huge position error, I wasn’t able to force FMS to update position from LCA VOR that was just behind us. Earlier this year we’ve lost both AHRS (and off course AP/YD) for a couple of minutes while on cruise at FL400 over Russia...

[500 above]

Originally Posted by DCTunltd

Hello folks,

Could you please share your opinion on Phenom 300 and Learjet 75? Pros and cons? Corrosion problems? A/c reliability? Maintenance and AOGs?

Have you ever had any issues with Garmin caused by GPS jamming (over Russia/Ukraine, Cyprus, Israel)? How does it work in DR mode after GPS signal loss?

We are operating new CJ3+ but I wouldn’t call it a happy marriage... Bosses are looking for reliable alternative.

I don’t know about those types of light jet, but losing GPS signal in those areas (where I fly every day) is NOTAM’d often and normal. EPU often goes ‘yellow’ in those areas. Cyprus isn’t so bad, but the Russian/Ukraine border is most of the time. FMS DR isn’t a major issue en route for a short while, even if you don’t have an IRS or 3.

[Hodin]

do you mind sharing a rough outline of your operation (commercial, private single pilot/multi crew,...)?

regarding training: Phenom 300 has now a sim in Amsterdam, saves you a flight to the US unless you want to go via the Lear 45 difference and do it in the UK.

EDIT: We always had issues with the Phenom batteries. often barly enough time to do a technical start before reaching minimum voltage allowed for ENG start. if you cant have 1 ENG running on the apron at some places, you need GPU - and GPU is one of the biggest rip offs in EU (if they work and provide proper voltage at all).

[Proline21]

FAR23 (Phenom) vs FAR (any Learjet) should be considered if applicable (meaning both pilots have to have ATPL, one has to be the PIC, have full ATPL with sufficient experience).Cabin size of the Phenom seems to be alot compared to the Learjet. No Thrust reversers for lower maintenance and weight maybe ? (Phenom 300). From what I hear the Phenom 300 is a really great and capable aircraft for the value.

[JABAG]

Have operated a couple of Phenom 300 for 5 year. Reliability is great. We have the enhanced batteries installed. No issues with low voltage for starts. You are right, don't line loosing GPS signal, but this is normally Notamed. I always ensure I have the relevant vor/dme feq. tuned in.
Cabin is good in this category of aircraft.

Great aircraft.