Dale Earnhardt, Jr, Cessna Citation C680 Latitude Crash
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: TN
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 57
Posts: 2,438
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"it's a marginally long enough runway"
I have 3500+ hours/2000+landings in the straight 680. If the 5000ft distance given above is correct, than its not "marginally long enough". (as several people in this thread have already pointed out!) You can plant the C680s into 3500ft COMFORTABLY if you know what you doing even at high weights and regarding to Vref close to touchdown: this airplane slows down really really hard with full flaps and idle power. E.g. If you are at max speed for full flaps (175KIAS) at 2.5 nm and youre putting em down and stay in idle, you crash and burn in FRONT of the runway. She flies much like a KingAir 200 with props in high RPM and full flaps at this stage, if that gives you an idea.
What is a nono at least in the straight 680 is force her down on a higher speed (Vref plus say 5 or 10) AND deploy speed brakes in quick movement without pushing the yoke forward. That CAN get you airborne again. (speedbrakes are manually extended and have a distinct nose up effect). This MIGHT have played a role.
What adverse role does a DA in CAVOK play ?
I have 3500+ hours/2000+landings in the straight 680. If the 5000ft distance given above is correct, than its not "marginally long enough". (as several people in this thread have already pointed out!) You can plant the C680s into 3500ft COMFORTABLY if you know what you doing even at high weights and regarding to Vref close to touchdown: this airplane slows down really really hard with full flaps and idle power. E.g. If you are at max speed for full flaps (175KIAS) at 2.5 nm and youre putting em down and stay in idle, you crash and burn in FRONT of the runway. She flies much like a KingAir 200 with props in high RPM and full flaps at this stage, if that gives you an idea.
What is a nono at least in the straight 680 is force her down on a higher speed (Vref plus say 5 or 10) AND deploy speed brakes in quick movement without pushing the yoke forward. That CAN get you airborne again. (speedbrakes are manually extended and have a distinct nose up effect). This MIGHT have played a role.
What adverse role does a DA in CAVOK play ?
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Laredo, TX
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I deleted the message you are quoting. That data was for a 525 landing there an hour earlier. N8JR is not available for tracking.
"it's a marginally long enough runway"
I have 3500+ hours/2000+landings in the straight 680. If the 5000ft distance given above is correct, than its not "marginally long enough". (as several people in this thread have already pointed out!) You can plant the C680s into 3500ft COMFORTABLY if you know what you doing even at high weights and regarding to Vref close to touchdown: this airplane slows down really really hard with full flaps and idle power. E.g. If you are at max speed for full flaps (175KIAS) at 2.5 nm and youre putting em down and stay in idle, you crash and burn in FRONT of the runway. She flies much like a KingAir 200 with props in high RPM and full flaps at this stage, if that gives you an idea.
What is a nono at least in the straight 680 is force her down on a higher speed (Vref plus say 5 or 10) AND deploy speed brakes in quick movement without pushing the yoke forward. That CAN get you airborne again. (speedbrakes are manually extended and have a distinct nose up effect). This MIGHT have played a role.
What adverse role does a DA in CAVOK play ?
I have 3500+ hours/2000+landings in the straight 680. If the 5000ft distance given above is correct, than its not "marginally long enough". (as several people in this thread have already pointed out!) You can plant the C680s into 3500ft COMFORTABLY if you know what you doing even at high weights and regarding to Vref close to touchdown: this airplane slows down really really hard with full flaps and idle power. E.g. If you are at max speed for full flaps (175KIAS) at 2.5 nm and youre putting em down and stay in idle, you crash and burn in FRONT of the runway. She flies much like a KingAir 200 with props in high RPM and full flaps at this stage, if that gives you an idea.
What is a nono at least in the straight 680 is force her down on a higher speed (Vref plus say 5 or 10) AND deploy speed brakes in quick movement without pushing the yoke forward. That CAN get you airborne again. (speedbrakes are manually extended and have a distinct nose up effect). This MIGHT have played a role.
What adverse role does a DA in CAVOK play ?
DA (in this case, I think) is Density Altitude, not Decision Altitude.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 57
Posts: 2,438
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DA (in this case, I think) is Density Altitude, not Decision Altitude.
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: TN
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 57
Posts: 2,438
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Increased TAS over standard day, about +5kts in this case
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you’re on to something here. If you’re trying to save an unstable approach (fast and a little high) with flight idle and just rolling trim back, you’ll find that you’ve trimmed the elevator into a position where you don’t have enough elevator to flare. Couple this with the fact that you have to manually deploy the spoilers upon touch down, things can get out of hand quickly.
A redneck worshiped by millions of NASCAR crazies with MAGA hats!😎
Perhaps intimidated his pilots to take this brand new high performance jet into an airport (0A9) that is barely OK for a small prop aircraft.
(1600’ altitude and about 4500’ long runway, with a displaced threshold, surrounded by high terrain.)
Not sure if he owned this jet or chartered?
Either way, a lot of low time inexperienced 135/91 pilots are intimidated to fly into these small airports because it is convenient for the owner or renter!
GF,
As soon as I read the words Redneck, NASCAR crazies, and MAGA hats.....he surrendered all credibility.
Like airline pilots never run off the end of runways either.
As soon as I read the words Redneck, NASCAR crazies, and MAGA hats.....he surrendered all credibility.
Like airline pilots never run off the end of runways either.
Sadly becoming all to common these days...
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 57
Posts: 2,438
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Like airline pilots never run off the end of runways either.
Anyhuw, I´m just very glad it did not happen to me, not a position one wants to be in...
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: PBI
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NTSB preliminary report makes for interesting reading. After the 2nd "bounce" pilot initiated a go around. When that didn't look good he decided to put it back on the runway. LG broke on 2nd bounce