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Greenville,SC Falcon 50 crash

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Greenville,SC Falcon 50 crash

Old 27th Sep 2018, 20:13
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TWT
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Greenville, SC Falcon 50 crash

https://www.ksn.com/news/national-wo...ted/1479840855

Last edited by TWT; 1st Oct 2018 at 12:51.
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Old 27th Sep 2018, 20:24
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https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=2157

R.I.P.
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Old 27th Sep 2018, 20:27
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https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=215746
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Old 27th Sep 2018, 22:36
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Falcon 50 crash at Greenville, South Carolina

The Daily Mail is reporting that the two pilots have died in a landing overrun accident at Greenville, South Carolina. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...jet-crash.html
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Old 28th Sep 2018, 03:41
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Very sad outcome... The two pilots are dead and the 2 pax are in critical condition... More pictures...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...jet-crash.html
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Old 28th Sep 2018, 07:05
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Aircraft appears to have gone off the end of Rwy 19 at KGMU and over the embankment (most likely becoming airborne again in the process, judging from the damage) before coming down on the airport perimeter road adjacent to the (just visible) approach lights.



Not a good place to overrun ...
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Old 28th Sep 2018, 08:47
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Looks like an overrun from a landing on 19. Weather ?

Does 01 have EMAS in the overrun area ?
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Old 28th Sep 2018, 09:12
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Or undershoot ...
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Old 28th Sep 2018, 12:11
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Originally Posted by PEI_3721 View Post
Looks like an overrun from a landing on 19. Weather ?

Does 01 have EMAS in the overrun area ?
Yes, EMAS on the other end, runway 1. Weather was not bad, winds slightly favoring Rwy 19, and maybe 1200 foot overcast at worst all day.
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Old 28th Sep 2018, 14:48
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If you run off the end of a runway in a Falcon it's not going to make you look good. A Falcon 50 will land about as short as a helicopter.
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Old 28th Sep 2018, 23:47
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Saw an interview with what looked like an reliable witness (yeah, I know) who said that the landing seemed perfectly normal but the aircraft just didn;t seem to slow down.
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 01:21
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From another aviation site... Shocking if true but then I'm not surprised at some part 91 operations in the USA.

I'm not sure where they got their information from...

"I think the biggest head scratching part of this, is the credentials of the crew:

SIC is a PPL with Multi Rating no instrument rating, no type rating
PIC reportedly had an SIC rating only on the Da50

It appears as though the flight was a charter part 135 but the SIC is the owner of the airplane so part 91’d it. I think this accident might be a game changer in the exposure of a lack of oversight by the FAA of Part 91 operations and the credentials required to be flying biz jets.

A sad day, but from seeing how some of these 91 operators go, its an inevitability for some."
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 04:11
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Originally Posted by Jet Jockey A4 View Post
From another aviation site... Shocking if true but then I'm not surprised at some part 91 operations in the USA.

I'm not sure where they got their information from...

"I think the biggest head scratching part of this, is the credentials of the crew:

SIC is a PPL with Multi Rating no instrument rating, no type rating
PIC reportedly had an SIC rating only on the Da50

It appears as though the flight was a charter part 135 but the SIC is the owner of the airplane so part 91’d it. I think this accident might be a game changer in the exposure of a lack of oversight by the FAA of Part 91 operations and the credentials required to be flying biz jets.

A sad day, but from seeing how some of these 91 operators go, its an inevitability for some."
Link please to that info
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 14:36
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Here is the link to where the coroner identifies both pilots https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2018/09/27/plane-crash-reported-near-greenville-downtown-airport-injuries-reported/1444821002/

The
coroner identified the pilot who does hold an ATP, but only has SIC privileges for the DA-50 (FAA Database)

The coroner identified the copilot who does hold a Private certificate ASEL and AMEL. (FAA Database)
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 17:06
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WOW to say the least.
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 18:26
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Well, if the Owner was onboard then Darwin Rules worked, it is unfortunately tragic for everybody else.
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 18:42
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No experience with the FAA database whatsoever, how often/quickly is the database updated ? Suppose the dude was on the sim, say 3 weeks ago, would that be shown in the DB already ?
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 19:23
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Don't know

Originally Posted by His dudeness View Post
No experience with the FAA database whatsoever, how often/quickly is the database updated ? Suppose the dude was on the sim, say 3 weeks ago, would that be shown in the DB already ?
Do not know how quickly or often the DB may be updated.

I would hope that he had completed a type course and the info is old. Same for the private pilot, non instrument rated copilot.

Follow up. According to the FAA, they are updated monthly.

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certifi...rmen_download/

" We update these files monthly. The records in each database file are stored in either fixed length ASCII text format (TXT) or comma-delimited text format (CSV) which is already separated into airmen basic records and certificate records. Both formats can be manipulated by common database applications such as MS Access. "
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 19:45
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I get the impression that this sort of thing is not uncommon in general aviation. Airline pilots occasionally get their tickets pulled for lying on the medical and other things but I would be hard pressed to think of a case in recent memory where an airline pilot flew in the U.S, without a license or with a phony license. Years ago PBA and the Van Arsedale's got caught pencil whipping type ratings and flying a YS-11 without a license, has there been a major case come to light since then?

From a crash earlier this month:

Surprising Details Emerge From Sunday’s Cessna 335 Crash

No one aboard the aircraft held a pilot’s certificate.

By
Rob Mark September 13, 2018

A twin-engine Cessna 335 crashed last Sunday about 10:40 a.m. local time as it approached Florida’s Palm Beach County Park/Lantana Airport. The 335 is an unpressurized version of Cessna's once-popular Cessna 340.

The pilot was last heard on a common traffic advisory frequency indicating he was making his turn to base leg for landing on runway 16. A few seconds later, the airplane hit the ground a mile northeast of the airport and was destroyed by a post-crash fire that claimed the lives of the two people aboard, pilot Philip Castronova and his wife Mandy. Weather at the time of the accident was reported as good visibility with light winds from the southwest.

As if digging into the cause of the accident was not going to be tough enough for investigators since the aircraft most likely was not carrying a flight data recorder, nor would it have been required to under Part 91, but a reporter for the Palm Beach Post, Alexandra Seltzer,
received a tip from an unnamed pilot about the status of Castronova’s pilot certificate. Following the lead, Steltzer learned that Philip Castronova’s did not hold a valid pilot certificate. In fact, the FAA reported Castronova’s certificate had been revoked in September 1997, for making fraudulent or intentionally false statements on his application for a medical certificate.

The final data point recorded for the accident on Flight Aware indicated the aircraft was 400 feet above the ground flying at 117 knots, but with a vertical descent rate of nearly 1,000 fpm.


https://www.flyingmag.com/palm-beach...-crash-details
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 20:05
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Originally Posted by Airbubba View Post
I get the impression that this sort of thing is not uncommon in general aviation. Airline pilots occasionally get their tickets pulled for lying on the medical and other things but I would be hard pressed to think of a case in recent memory where an airline pilot flew in the U.S, without a license or with a phony license. Years ago PBA and the Van Arsedale's got caught pencil whipping type ratings and flying a YS-11 without a license, has there been a major case come to light since then?

From a crash earlier this month:




https://www.flyingmag.com/palm-beach...-crash-details
Might be happening more often in smaller GA aircraft, but I would think rare in these types. Especially in a corporate environment. I would like to hear what the insurance company has to say. BTW...Roll Tide
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