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G650 ER real range

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Old 12th Feb 2017, 17:51
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G650 ER real range

Hi all, can someone advise of real maximum range on G650 ER? I mean real numbers not the ones published on testing by Gulfstream
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Old 12th Feb 2017, 19:34
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Why would you not want to believe the numbers quoted by Gulfstream??.
Do you think that they would lie?.
Do you think that if they did lie that pilots and operators would not have publicised that lie?
There are enough of them flying worldwide now now that it should be easily verified.
Go to Flightaware, find a G650 or two and track their flight history, it should be fairly easily determined what their range is.
Gulfstream are well known to be very accurate in their actual claims.
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Old 12th Feb 2017, 20:29
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I have it from the horse's mouth that a 7'200 NM trip was made with all necessary reserves and 5 people on board with a G650, without the ER STC.

If you fly the speeds as published, Gulfstreams tend to overperform the published figures. Be careful to consider ALL factors of your flight (Load, Temperatures en route, available flight levels, etc...) before committing to a figure...

I have done 6490 air miles myself with an older G5, 4 people on board.. The reason we had almost 3'000lbs on board at landing was that we had consistent ISA -15 over the whole route, were able to get some non-standard intermediate levels, and flew consistent LRC. Had we done optimum climb and descent profiles for fuel we could have saved another 200-300 lbs.
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Old 12th Feb 2017, 21:16
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Go to Flightaware, find a G650 or two and track their flight history, it should be fairly easily determined what their range is.
??? You tell the guy to believe Gulfstream's numbers, then you advise him on going to Flightaware to find them out? Pick a side.
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Old 12th Feb 2017, 21:45
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I have not flown the G650/650ER, however I do have a lot of experience in G11, GIV, GV and G550. Without exception they have all exceeded the range of the published figures, admittedly some not by very much but still better than some other manufacturers products that I have flown that have not even come close to meeting their published figures.
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Old 12th Feb 2017, 21:53
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Soave,
If you look at historical flights for any aircraft type and past flights then you will see actual distances flown, flight times, and whatever.
Seriously, check it out and then come back at me.
f
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Old 12th Feb 2017, 22:10
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I don't doubt its range, my question is who wants to be cooped up in a tube for 16 hours? What about inflight rest for four pilots? I've done 12.6 in a Global and that's two hours two much.

GF
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Old 13th Feb 2017, 00:50
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Flights over 10 hours in our 650ER's have a relief crew on-board. We include that in our Ops manual.
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Old 13th Feb 2017, 00:51
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We usually get "book" or better range on our 650ER's
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Old 13th Feb 2017, 02:24
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But, at 12 hours aloft, the commercial standard (91K,135,121, foreign rules for NCC ops) is four pilots. We put a third pilot on when 10 or hours, but try sleeping across from the galley. The business just isn't big enough.

GF
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Old 13th Feb 2017, 03:22
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. But, at 12 hours aloft, the commercial standard (91K,135,121, foreign rules for NCC ops) is four pilots. We put a third pilot on when 10 or hours, but try sleeping across from the galley. The business just isn't big enough.
What is across from the galley?
Not proper crew rest facilities on a 14-16 hr jet?
Can't use a pax lay-flat seat with a curtain?

(Just curious, never flown a biz-jet, but lots of long-haul Boeings)
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Old 13th Feb 2017, 04:16
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In both the Global and the GLF, the crew rest area, either lie-down or reclining seat are opposite the galley--noise, smells, F/A shuffling around. There us only an acoustic curtain to separate the two. Remember the "tube" is about 8" narrower than a -9, too. The pax area is just that--the pax area, not yours, usually. There just isn't a lot of floor/volume to out anything like a Boeing crew rest area. And, it's a 16-hour plus jet.

GF
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Old 13th Feb 2017, 04:36
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2 bunks behind a curtain across from the galley?
Yeah, guess we are spoiled on the Boeings, especially the 747 freighters.
Bunch of bunks and 1-class seats in the upper deck area.
Big galley too. (Still long days, get jet-lagged and dehydrated regardless)

So, how often do you guys go with double crews and 16+ hrs flights?
Once a year, or twice a month?
No stops and crew changes enroute, fuel tanks are too big, ouch.
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Old 13th Feb 2017, 05:20
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Under EASA commercial rules, we can go the full range of the 650ER and more with 3 pilots (18 hours duty). However, the rules for the crew rest are a bit more specific: to be an approved crew "bunk", there needs to be a full-flat bed, light proof, with adjustable temperature, and reasonable sonic insulation. As the rest is right next to the forward galley and the forward lav, I need earplugs however to catch some Z's....

The big "cheat" is that there is no space for a second flight attendant, nor for the first one to have a decent sit-down when the crew bunk is occupied. So most operators don't have FAs but "ISP"s instead (inflight service providers).. They don't have official emergency duties, so they don't need proper rest or training..

If I owned a 70M$ airplane, it would bother me that the person preparing my food and looking after my well-being, as well as being closest to me when things go pear-shaped, is not subject to flight duty limitations...
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Old 13th Feb 2017, 11:28
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FlyMD,

The big "cheat" is that there is no space for a second flight attendant, nor for the first one to have a decent sit-down when the crew bunk is occupied. So most operators don't have FAs but "ISP"s instead (inflight service providers).. They don't have official emergency duties, so they don't need proper rest or training..

If I owned a 70M$ airplane, it would bother me that the person preparing my food and looking after my well-being, as well as being closest to me when things go pear-shaped, is not subject to flight duty limitations...
Could not agree more. As an FA, in our operation, we do not get trained, however both of us come from commercial aviation backgrounds, and have been trained within an inch of our lives in our previous flying incarnations. There is talk/want for us to be trained properly on this operation, but if that were to happen, who knows... Also talk of a new longer range aircraft too, and I could see the FA's crew rest becoming the forward lav... (joking obviously... or am I? )

But, you make a very valid point, the person in the back has the possibility of doing a hell of a lot more than just serving the food and washing the dishes... If there was a lav or cabin fire, or a medical incident, I would prefer (if I owned a jet ) that the person who is in the cabin knew how to fight a fire correctly on an aircraft and how to use the equipment available... OR, do effective CPR and use the Defib and Oxygen on the principal passenger in those valuable couple of minutes when they have just hit the floor after going into a post heart attack cardiac arrest...

But, hey how... That is the business aviation industry for you!
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Old 13th Feb 2017, 16:20
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Tower Dog

Who said anything about 2 bunks, just one. I flew lots, LOTS of augmented days in the C-5 and it was much better than the Global or GLF for in-flight rest. The best comparison would be the C-141, if flew it.

FlyMD,

That's basically our rule as a 91 operator, but wouldn't be sufficient for any commercial FAA operation. We, more often than not, did a crew change at the tech stop, but the Global was about a 12-hour plane at M.85. Frankly, the G5000 is perfect--11 hours, stop, board a new crew and catering and go on. There's nowhere you can't make in 22 hours at .85. And a tech stop is only an hour.

GF
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Old 13th Feb 2017, 17:23
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Tray Surfer, we do train our ISPs, keep them current on all the Emergency stuff, firefighting, etc... In addition to the operator's requirement they do hangar-based training on the doors and emergency exits, and additional medical training with regards to our pax's needs..
However when there is an enlarged flight requires 3 pilots, the ISP loses on all fronts: less storage space for the catering, only the cockpit jump seat to have a sit-down, and she does the whole flight without hour limitations. I
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Old 13th Feb 2017, 19:17
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FlyMD, I am hoping that will become the case with my Op, although I am going to do my own training this year, just because I feel I should keep myself current, and, compared to the US for example, recurrent is peanuts in the UK.

However, it will still be the same as you for flight time Ops etc. Hey ho...
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Old 14th Feb 2017, 02:36
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We put the augmented crew in the pax area. We are all on the same team and it never creates a problem.
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Old 14th Feb 2017, 03:06
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Good for you, Lucky8888, but that's not common.

GF
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