EASA ATPL unfreeze?
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EASA ATPL unfreeze?
Dear All! Here comes my question, I am holding german EASA CPL , froz ATPL and went off for my yearly recurrent and have organized and arrranged my ATPL unfreeze. As I am FO only my assigned Examiner said we can do the LST for COPI ONLY which was fine. I passed, received my congrats from the checker and supporting pilot who was also a TRE..., now the german LBA refuses to issue the ATPL as the PIC box was bot ticked. In my opinion it cannot be ticked as I sat in the right seat and I want to operate as FO. The training center and TRE did not talk to me since, which I find very sad. All I have received is a corrected form from CAE in order to sign it to receive my IR and Type renewal. I have not signed it and will not sign it as I have received my renewed licence. What can I do? Is the LBA right? I think my TRE knew the rules.
TIA AND MERRY CHRISTMAS, FROHE WEIHNACHTEN AND HAPPY LANDINGS
TIA AND MERRY CHRISTMAS, FROHE WEIHNACHTEN AND HAPPY LANDINGS
My understanding is that you have to do two things, an ATPL checkride and for that form you have to tick "FO", as you become PIC only after having that one done. And then the type rate LPC, for that one you tick "PIC" as you will be PIC on type on that one thereafter.
I'm not sure how to unfreeze while staying FO on the license. For the LBA maybe it's easier to just be PIC. And have your TRE sign the right hand seat qualification if that is where you are going to sit.
In case of doubt, call the LBA. If you ask politely and are a bit lucky the will explain how they want those forms filled.
Good luck!
I'm not sure how to unfreeze while staying FO on the license. For the LBA maybe it's easier to just be PIC. And have your TRE sign the right hand seat qualification if that is where you are going to sit.
In case of doubt, call the LBA. If you ask politely and are a bit lucky the will explain how they want those forms filled.
Good luck!
Oh and the TRE must be qualified to do ATPL check rides, a normal TRE for the type alone isn't enough. And that check ride must be in the left seat. Means if you never sat on the left in the sim there is no way the LBA will issue the ATPL.
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Did you apply for the ATPL checkride with the LBA before taking your checkride ??? It is mandatory you do this well in advance and also ask if they approve of the examiner as they have the privilege of delagating an examiner for you, if they are not accepting your suggestion, for whatever reason. Only after you have written confirmation with them giving you the green light, would an attempt make sense.
During the check you will have to demonstrate your command abilities in the designated seat of the manufacturer - some manufacturers don't specify which seat the PIC occupies I.e. in this case allow this function to be conducted from either seat. But in essence it remains an initial PIC check and needs to be checked appropriately on the test form - even if you continue to fly a Copilot in your daily operation.
During the check you will have to demonstrate your command abilities in the designated seat of the manufacturer - some manufacturers don't specify which seat the PIC occupies I.e. in this case allow this function to be conducted from either seat. But in essence it remains an initial PIC check and needs to be checked appropriately on the test form - even if you continue to fly a Copilot in your daily operation.
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In my humble opinion the TRE messed this one up for you and you should take it up with CAE to re-test, as you did not receive what you ordered and paid for ( usually stated in your training contract). Re-read your contract. Only if your company arranged your test and did not specify ATPL check - then chances are very slim.
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Yes. I am getting that feeling too especially as I have not heard from him since. Very sad and poor. On top of that CAE even told me i won't get even my Global renewal although it was already shipped ...I am not really amused as I had different plans and needed that done. ****ttt
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Ok, lets summarize this:
You have applied for an ATPL-checkride with the LBA on the specific form (available on the LBA website), recommending an examiner for this check?
If the LBA has approved this, go ahead and formalize your request in writing, to take it up with a lawyer afterwards.
If you do not have a written (!) approval to conduct an ATPL-checkride in the CAE-sim with the examiner stated in the approval-then the LBA has every right to refuse this...
You have applied for an ATPL-checkride with the LBA on the specific form (available on the LBA website), recommending an examiner for this check?
If the LBA has approved this, go ahead and formalize your request in writing, to take it up with a lawyer afterwards.
If you do not have a written (!) approval to conduct an ATPL-checkride in the CAE-sim with the examiner stated in the approval-then the LBA has every right to refuse this...
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In case of doubt, call the LBA. If you ask politely and are a bit lucky the will explain how they want those forms filled.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Taking calls only from 9 to 12 and when you call the "lovely folks" in that time bracket they either do not answer or the line is busy....
The icing on the cake was, when they lost my forms for TR renewal between the ground floor and L4 - and their lack of willing to do something about THEIR goof-up - never mind someone has to make a living from flying.
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Approved Form
Hi, yes, I have downloaded that form mid July, filled it out, got the signature for the required hours and LBA has then assigned the TRE...as far as I know, thats how it works. I do not want to blame either the TRE or LBA, I just want to know whats going on. How can I get congrats from two authorized people and then afterwards get a no and refuse and sorry? I clearly said, if the mission causes any problems I will postpone it but the TRE team continued...
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Hi FC Bayern Fan,
Quote from Part-FCL and the LBA Check Form for the ATPL Test:
SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS FOR THE SKILL TEST/PROFICIENCY CHECK FOR MULTIPILOT AIRCRAFT TYPE RATINGS, FOR SINGLE-PILOT AEROPLANE TYPE RATINGS, WHEN OPERATED IN MULTI-PILOT OPERATIONS, FOR MPL AND ATPL
13. The skill test for a multi-pilot aircraft or a single-pilot aeroplane when operated in multi-pilot operations shall be performed in a multi-crew environment. Another applicant or another type rated qualified pilot may function as second pilot. If an aircraft is used, the second pilot shall be the examiner or an instructor.
14. The applicant shall operate as PF during all sections of the skill test, except for abnormal and emergency procedures, which may be conducted as PF or PNF in accordance with MCC. The applicant for the initial issue of a multi-pilot aircraft type rating or ATPL shall also demonstrate the ability to act as PNF. The applicant may choose either the left hand or the right hand seat for the skill test if all items can be executed from the selected seat.
As Section 1.5 (Taxiing in compliance with air traffic control or instructions of instructor) is not a mandatory item of the check ride, you probably could perform all from the right seat. There are special requirements for CRM and PNF duties for the PIC ATPL check, but for all matters CAE could have just added a right hand seat check (ORO.FC.235) requiring less than 20min SIM time and everything concerning your employer’s requirements for your FO duties would have been covered.
Liebe Grüße und ein frohes neues Jahr,
Pittspilot
Quote from Part-FCL and the LBA Check Form for the ATPL Test:
SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS FOR THE SKILL TEST/PROFICIENCY CHECK FOR MULTIPILOT AIRCRAFT TYPE RATINGS, FOR SINGLE-PILOT AEROPLANE TYPE RATINGS, WHEN OPERATED IN MULTI-PILOT OPERATIONS, FOR MPL AND ATPL
13. The skill test for a multi-pilot aircraft or a single-pilot aeroplane when operated in multi-pilot operations shall be performed in a multi-crew environment. Another applicant or another type rated qualified pilot may function as second pilot. If an aircraft is used, the second pilot shall be the examiner or an instructor.
14. The applicant shall operate as PF during all sections of the skill test, except for abnormal and emergency procedures, which may be conducted as PF or PNF in accordance with MCC. The applicant for the initial issue of a multi-pilot aircraft type rating or ATPL shall also demonstrate the ability to act as PNF. The applicant may choose either the left hand or the right hand seat for the skill test if all items can be executed from the selected seat.
As Section 1.5 (Taxiing in compliance with air traffic control or instructions of instructor) is not a mandatory item of the check ride, you probably could perform all from the right seat. There are special requirements for CRM and PNF duties for the PIC ATPL check, but for all matters CAE could have just added a right hand seat check (ORO.FC.235) requiring less than 20min SIM time and everything concerning your employer’s requirements for your FO duties would have been covered.
Liebe Grüße und ein frohes neues Jahr,
Pittspilot
Last edited by Pittspilot; 1st Jan 2016 at 08:50.
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FC Bayern
Huhu, wer kennt mich da so gut
, frohes neues Jahr Dir auch und ich freu mich über diese Antwort.
In mir schlummert ja noch Hoffnung😀
Danke Dir und hoffentlich bist Du auch Bayernfan, haha
Grußi
, frohes neues Jahr Dir auch und ich freu mich über diese Antwort. In mir schlummert ja noch Hoffnung😀
Danke Dir und hoffentlich bist Du auch Bayernfan, haha
Grußi
I guess there's still hope. It is not uncommon to fix the paperwork afterwards when the LBA didn't like it as it was filed. A not-so-small german airline frequently sends forms back and forth to get them the way they want them.
The check must have conformed to the requirements though...
Viel Glück!
The check must have conformed to the requirements though...
Viel Glück!
