Various Globals now...
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From: Land of Ice and Fire
Various Globals now...
With there being XRS, 5000, 6000 and 7000 what is the training situation for initial?
All still considered the same type, just with differences training?
Is one variation preferable to do the initial type on?
All still considered the same type, just with differences training?
Is one variation preferable to do the initial type on?
Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Massachusetts, USA
Various Globals now...
Classic, XRS and 5000 were built with Honeywell SPZ8400 avionics and they are one common type with very minor differences training included in the initial or during a recurrent class.
The new 5000 and now the 6000 are manufactured with a Rockwell Collins Vision avionics package, so the XRS is no longer manufactured as its increased range capabilities are rolled into the new 6000.
The new 5000 and 6000 are still a BBD700 type rating but offered with much more extensive differences training due to the new flight deck.
The 7000 and 8000 will be a totally new type rating due to the fly-by-wire side sticks etc.
Average cost annual 6000 recurrent class (two classes) at Flight Safety is approximately $55,000, with the initial differences course between Honeywell and Rockwell Collins priced at approximately $25,000. There is also now an approved differences class for Rockwell Collins to Honeywell flight decks.
The new 5000 and now the 6000 are manufactured with a Rockwell Collins Vision avionics package, so the XRS is no longer manufactured as its increased range capabilities are rolled into the new 6000.
The new 5000 and 6000 are still a BBD700 type rating but offered with much more extensive differences training due to the new flight deck.
The 7000 and 8000 will be a totally new type rating due to the fly-by-wire side sticks etc.
Average cost annual 6000 recurrent class (two classes) at Flight Safety is approximately $55,000, with the initial differences course between Honeywell and Rockwell Collins priced at approximately $25,000. There is also now an approved differences class for Rockwell Collins to Honeywell flight decks.
Last edited by GIVSP; 3rd May 2016 at 14:08. Reason: edits
Joined: May 2009
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From: london
If you do an initial on the vision, can you do a differences to the classic?
Recurrent for a classic is about 25k. By the way, does anyone understand the reasoning behind loading the recurrent training for individuals as much as FS and CAE do? I had a quote for 37k recently - they dropped to 25 with a minimal haggle but why ask for so much cash in the first place?
If you fly both variants is there any point in doing a vision recurrent? Just seems like a bundle of extra money for nothing.
Recurrent for a classic is about 25k. By the way, does anyone understand the reasoning behind loading the recurrent training for individuals as much as FS and CAE do? I had a quote for 37k recently - they dropped to 25 with a minimal haggle but why ask for so much cash in the first place?
If you fly both variants is there any point in doing a vision recurrent? Just seems like a bundle of extra money for nothing.
Joined: May 2009
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From: london
where do you understand that from? I can't find it anywhere. Aviation is too bloody complicated..
(found it now but only as a recommendation from Bombardier. If anybody knows where its mandated can you let me know)
(found it now but only as a recommendation from Bombardier. If anybody knows where its mandated can you let me know)
Last edited by GlenQuagmire; 10th March 2015 at 14:43. Reason: found more info
Joined: May 2009
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From: london
You don't need to alternate. FCL710(b) If the variant has not been flown within a period of 2 years following the differences raining, further differences training or a proficiency check in that variant shall be required to maintain the privileges, except for types or variants within the single-engine piston and TMG class ratings.
Not that it makes much difference. I intended to renew on whichever one I hadn't flown much but the truth is I will renew on whichever one is cheapest..
Not that it makes much difference. I intended to renew on whichever one I hadn't flown much but the truth is I will renew on whichever one is cheapest..
Joined: Apr 2009
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From: Massachusetts, USA
Cost of training
That price was for a full service annual recurrent training package - so included 2 recurrent training events plus you can visit as many times as the sim and instructors are available - some contract pilots just need to maintain landing currency during the year.
Joined: Jan 2010
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From: North West Europe
I looked at doing a 'backwards' differences course from Global Vision to Global Classic (Honeywell) - In EASA land this is absolutely not possible (Verboten) and I would have to have done a full Global Classic Initial.
In FAA Land, you can do a 'backwards' differences course between Global Vision and Global Classic, but you can then only fly an FAA registered aircraft and cannot then subsequently transfer it across to an EASA Land aircraft.
In terms of holding both Type Ratings i.e.; Classic and Initial - I have never seen anything written down but I recently did some work business with the Bermudan Authorities for a Challenger pilot who held both 604 and 605 Type Ratings, and they would not validate him on the 604 if he had not done a full 604 Recurrent in the previous 2 years - they also pointed out to me that this would be the same for the 605 - ergo, if you want to satisfy the Bermudan authorities and probably some of the others - it seems sensible (and dare I say it at the risk of being verbally abused and mangled) and professional to do one every other year
However, I suspect some people's Ops Manuals will say you have to do one each year and therefore you will have to do 2 Recurrent's each year for both Classic and Vision - and if you move onto the 7000/8000 then you could be onto 3 a year!
At that stage you've probably been flying far too long and its time to give up!
In FAA Land, you can do a 'backwards' differences course between Global Vision and Global Classic, but you can then only fly an FAA registered aircraft and cannot then subsequently transfer it across to an EASA Land aircraft.
In terms of holding both Type Ratings i.e.; Classic and Initial - I have never seen anything written down but I recently did some work business with the Bermudan Authorities for a Challenger pilot who held both 604 and 605 Type Ratings, and they would not validate him on the 604 if he had not done a full 604 Recurrent in the previous 2 years - they also pointed out to me that this would be the same for the 605 - ergo, if you want to satisfy the Bermudan authorities and probably some of the others - it seems sensible (and dare I say it at the risk of being verbally abused and mangled) and professional to do one every other year
However, I suspect some people's Ops Manuals will say you have to do one each year and therefore you will have to do 2 Recurrent's each year for both Classic and Vision - and if you move onto the 7000/8000 then you could be onto 3 a year!
At that stage you've probably been flying far too long and its time to give up!
Joined: May 2006
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From: Nowhere
Well, I could only imagine that this so, because a differences course for the classic for Vision-only Pilots does not exist atm. If Bombardier or CAE would offer an approved classic differences course, this is what you should be doing and not an initial type rating. I am sure that they would offer this, if enough demand for this should arise in the future - as long as classic versions of the AC are flown, this will possibly be the case.
Maybe all this is a good reason NOT to progress to the Vision, as sooner or later there might be more demand on the classic again. Rather wait and move on to the 7000, because it is a different type.
One other thing I have noticed, is that many staffers don't even have a clue about all this and many understand the Vision being a completly seperate type rating and treat it as such, which it certainly is not. After not even 3 years, it has become quite rare to get a job offered on the Vision without having any actual practical experience with it.... even with thousands of hours on the classic.
Maybe all this is a good reason NOT to progress to the Vision, as sooner or later there might be more demand on the classic again. Rather wait and move on to the 7000, because it is a different type.
One other thing I have noticed, is that many staffers don't even have a clue about all this and many understand the Vision being a completly seperate type rating and treat it as such, which it certainly is not. After not even 3 years, it has become quite rare to get a job offered on the Vision without having any actual practical experience with it.... even with thousands of hours on the classic.
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: The wrong time zone...
Resurrecting an old thread - I'm interested in the legalities and regulations surrounding "differences courses", in particular the Global Classic/XRS to Vision. Just interested in the FAA Part 91 case - do both the captain and copilot need to have done the differences course? I imagine there are insurance ramifications and I'm also aware that is would certainly not be ideal if both crew had not completed the training, but interested in the rules surrounding differences courses. I understand that your licence will still only have BD700 on it - would appreciate any thoughts!
Joined: Oct 2012
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From: Worldwide
Resurrecting an old thread - I'm interested in the legalities and regulations surrounding "differences courses", in particular the Global Classic/XRS to Vision. Just interested in the FAA Part 91 case - do both the captain and copilot need to have done the differences course? I imagine there are insurance ramifications and I'm also aware that is would certainly not be ideal if both crew had not completed the training, but interested in the rules surrounding differences courses. I understand that your licence will still only have BD700 on it - would appreciate any thoughts!
If you are only interested in FAA part 91 regs then the SIC doesn't even need a type rating much less a differences course. As long as he has 3 TOs and Landings in the AC and has appropriate FAA license i.e. multi engine land, instrument. Insurance will be a different story, they will want formal sim within the last year.
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: If this is Tuesday, it must be?
As long as he has 3 TOs and Landings in the AC and has appropriate FAA license
It's this sort of disinformation that led to so many N reg aircraft being non compliant that the rest of the world insisted on the FAA implementing SIC type ratings for international ops, as well as the insurance companies mostly wanting proper sim training.