Luxaviation - Consolidating Europe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The crap that I read in this pages are rather amusing, especially from Global_Global!
Luxaviation is a financially sound company with a great plan. They are acquiring well established and profitable companies. Their consolidation plans are in line with the industry trend and they will succeed, despite what some idiots in this pages are saying.
Probably better for some people if they stick to flying aircraft and leave the business part to someone else
Luxaviation is a financially sound company with a great plan. They are acquiring well established and profitable companies. Their consolidation plans are in line with the industry trend and they will succeed, despite what some idiots in this pages are saying.
Probably better for some people if they stick to flying aircraft and leave the business part to someone else
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Sky
Posts: 330
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are welcome Haburn and thank you for your constructive remarks! 
As we have no clue about this industry we leave "the business part to someone else" while we at the pointy end end up in the sh!t when great ideas and plans go bust and f@ck up my and other their careerplans let alone out of money..... So excuse us on this forum trying to figure out where things will go wrong next time as well as where things are (or at least seem!) to be working...
Having seen too many of your type coming in with your Merc's with great powerpoints about win win's that end up loosing too many people money. I have a slightly different view on the world. Call it experience
As we have no clue about this industry we leave "the business part to someone else" while we at the pointy end end up in the sh!t when great ideas and plans go bust and f@ck up my and other their careerplans let alone out of money..... So excuse us on this forum trying to figure out where things will go wrong next time as well as where things are (or at least seem!) to be working...
Having seen too many of your type coming in with your Merc's with great powerpoints about win win's that end up loosing too many people money. I have a slightly different view on the world. Call it experience
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah Mr "Harburn" .........
.....How you must be enjoying your new Range Rover and bulging wallet.
Now reference all these pesky posts about your benefactors........I guess if something looks like an elephant, smells like an elephant and sounds like an elephant then most people ( certainly those who inhabit the PPrune shark- infested waters) would conclude it probably is an elephant...but of course we are only idiot pilots.
You get my drift fellah?
.....How you must be enjoying your new Range Rover and bulging wallet.Now reference all these pesky posts about your benefactors........I guess if something looks like an elephant, smells like an elephant and sounds like an elephant then most people ( certainly those who inhabit the PPrune shark- infested waters) would conclude it probably is an elephant...but of course we are only idiot pilots.
You get my drift fellah?
Last edited by Tinytim; 11th Feb 2015 at 16:14.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: anywhere
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Luxaviation is a financially sound company with a great plan. They are acquiring well established and profitable companies. Their consolidation plans are in line with the industry trend and they will succeed, despite what some idiots in this pages are saying.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Timbuktu
Posts: 962
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Global_Global, if you take this post and place it in the context of the third paragraph of this article, a possible deduction can be made.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Far away from LA
Posts: 1,032
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is amusing on how short the memory is for some people. This scheme will collapse like all the others, just because it cannot stand a slow growth.
Not being a crystal ball reader, but barely looking backward to contemplate the various disasters of great plans of 100+ planes in Europe.
The guys whom poured money in the pot like there was no tomorrow is Netjets, dreaming of a fleet of 200 planes, scattering ( overcasting) the skies, with the infamous "Skyshare", then " Fraction", is now utterly proud to manage to land a Phenom 300 in LCY, two years after operating them. They are barely having what ? 70 planes planes flying ? Got rid of hundreds of pilots, and virtually disappeared from the market. ( european that is)
At the same time there was the Flexjet scheme, that collapsed soundly as well.
Examples are so many, that a full forum will not be enough.
It is not by pairing donkeys that you make a yearling, especially, when neither of them are required in this economy.
I do therefore agree with the more than certain collapse of this new entity, with hundreds of millions in debts, and another layer of pilots looking for jobs. It is just a matter of time.
Not being a crystal ball reader, but barely looking backward to contemplate the various disasters of great plans of 100+ planes in Europe.
The guys whom poured money in the pot like there was no tomorrow is Netjets, dreaming of a fleet of 200 planes, scattering ( overcasting) the skies, with the infamous "Skyshare", then " Fraction", is now utterly proud to manage to land a Phenom 300 in LCY, two years after operating them. They are barely having what ? 70 planes planes flying ? Got rid of hundreds of pilots, and virtually disappeared from the market. ( european that is)
At the same time there was the Flexjet scheme, that collapsed soundly as well.
Examples are so many, that a full forum will not be enough.
It is not by pairing donkeys that you make a yearling, especially, when neither of them are required in this economy.
I do therefore agree with the more than certain collapse of this new entity, with hundreds of millions in debts, and another layer of pilots looking for jobs. It is just a matter of time.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Europe mainly
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2 years NetJets operates the P300 ?
Get your facts straight before talking rubbish
The downturn hit all the companies, many not existing any more. Compared to this I'd say NJ rather good weathered the storm.
Haters will hate
Get your facts straight before talking rubbish
The downturn hit all the companies, many not existing any more. Compared to this I'd say NJ rather good weathered the storm.
Haters will hate
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Far away from LA
Posts: 1,032
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
very sorry my lord, the P300 appeared on the Snapshot on October 9th, 2013...
But was flying a bit before...so 16 months operational... very sorry for this approximation.
Netjets will have to adjust the wings one more time, this is it... NJE not USA..
But was flying a bit before...so 16 months operational... very sorry for this approximation.
Netjets will have to adjust the wings one more time, this is it... NJE not USA..
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Europe mainly
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NetJets will have to adjust their Wings many more times, Europe as well as US !
Thats called economy, if you know anything about an adjustment I am not aware of, PM me
Thats called economy, if you know anything about an adjustment I am not aware of, PM me
This scheme being referred to in this thread is reminiscent of something that happened in the USA a few years back. With some differences in financial arrangement, the basic theme of trying to corner the lions share of the bizjet charter and aircraft management market is eerily similar. Potential monopolies ALWAYS promise "economy of scale" cost benefits and rarely if ever deliver them to the consumer!
In this business case, there are two primary 'consumers": The aircraft owner and the charter customer, who between them provide almost all of the income to the business. Conventional wisdom would dictate that the profit for the management/charter company is the margin between money paid out versus money paid in. Business 101 you say? Not quite so simple?
You bet it's not! A highly competent charter/management company owner can build up a healthy net worth over a period of 20 years managing a small outfit of just a few aircraft. And only by operating in that thin grey margin between honest provider of services and slippery con-man. Allot of hard work and a significant risk of failure. It only takes a very few bad judgments or an unforeseen business hazard to define the difference between profit and financial ruin for themselves and everyone who relies upon their existence. Not a business for the incompetent, the undedicated or the uninformed. These qualities, along with a "quick buck" mentality usually define the less than successful business. But that does not preclude the potential to make big bucks fast by getting "investors" into the game!
A company which did business under the name "JetDefect Aviation" and funded by an (not named here) "Equity Investment Group" followed a pattern very much like the scheme described up thread. During a period of less than two years, they proceeded to buy TAG USA, The Air Group and at least 7 other privately owned management/charter outfits. I worked for one of those companies acquired. At it's peak JD managed over 200 business aircraft across the USA from King Airs and Lears to long range large cabin jets. All the same hype abounded about how "economies of scale", "market growth" and (wait for it..) "synergy" would assure great success! Yeah, we were all gonna be making bigger bucks real soon and the charter customers and jet owners would be flocking to our doors to access our "superior product"! (all this while their lack of understanding of the "personal relationships" nature of the business was already showing)
Then reality started to rear it's ugly head. Income was down, costs were rising as charter customers and planes started leaving. The management business owners who had sold out to JD and stayed on as managers were collecting their salaries and spouting the company line even as they scrambled to establish new certificates and woo the airplane owners away. Things continued to decline as layoffs and then payroll shortages began. They even got a number of pilots with an afinity for Korporate Kool-Aide to float trip expenses on their personal credit when the corporate cards stopped working and FBOs refused to fuel without full payment on the spot. The number of pilots at my base had gone a high of from more than eighty to fewer than ten. I was one of those last few. We knew what was coming but there wasn't many places to go. Then one day the music stopped. The company declared bankruptcy and got out of paying almost all moneys owed to employees for expenses, salary and benefits. I was more fortunate than many but still lost my job and a couple of months worth of accrued salary and vacation pay. Better than the pilots and cabin crew who had covered expenses though. In fact my last Europe trip wouldn't have happened had not the airplane owner advanced us 150% of the projected trip expenses. Honest fool that I am, I actually refunded him the unused funds even as JD pocketed my money... (having a clear conscience hurts sometimes)
Well sorry for the long story. I just wanted some of you to see what might be on the horizon. It's something you should be prepared for as a corporate or charter pilot. It can happen to you too. And the kicker? The guys who set the whole JetDirect Expansion/buyout scheme up in the first place remained rich, got richer and will continue to do so as long as people are attracted to the concept of "easy money". It WAS a pretty good run while it lasted though. I try to remember that whenever I feel a bout of bitterness coming on.
For those in a position that requires you to believe otherwise that's your business. Feel free to disregard. No sense in responding to this post though. Just keep believing. And preparing...
There's a sucker born every minute. (and aviation is rife with 'em!)
westhawk
In this business case, there are two primary 'consumers": The aircraft owner and the charter customer, who between them provide almost all of the income to the business. Conventional wisdom would dictate that the profit for the management/charter company is the margin between money paid out versus money paid in. Business 101 you say? Not quite so simple?
You bet it's not! A highly competent charter/management company owner can build up a healthy net worth over a period of 20 years managing a small outfit of just a few aircraft. And only by operating in that thin grey margin between honest provider of services and slippery con-man. Allot of hard work and a significant risk of failure. It only takes a very few bad judgments or an unforeseen business hazard to define the difference between profit and financial ruin for themselves and everyone who relies upon their existence. Not a business for the incompetent, the undedicated or the uninformed. These qualities, along with a "quick buck" mentality usually define the less than successful business. But that does not preclude the potential to make big bucks fast by getting "investors" into the game!
A company which did business under the name "JetDefect Aviation" and funded by an (not named here) "Equity Investment Group" followed a pattern very much like the scheme described up thread. During a period of less than two years, they proceeded to buy TAG USA, The Air Group and at least 7 other privately owned management/charter outfits. I worked for one of those companies acquired. At it's peak JD managed over 200 business aircraft across the USA from King Airs and Lears to long range large cabin jets. All the same hype abounded about how "economies of scale", "market growth" and (wait for it..) "synergy" would assure great success! Yeah, we were all gonna be making bigger bucks real soon and the charter customers and jet owners would be flocking to our doors to access our "superior product"! (all this while their lack of understanding of the "personal relationships" nature of the business was already showing)
Then reality started to rear it's ugly head. Income was down, costs were rising as charter customers and planes started leaving. The management business owners who had sold out to JD and stayed on as managers were collecting their salaries and spouting the company line even as they scrambled to establish new certificates and woo the airplane owners away. Things continued to decline as layoffs and then payroll shortages began. They even got a number of pilots with an afinity for Korporate Kool-Aide to float trip expenses on their personal credit when the corporate cards stopped working and FBOs refused to fuel without full payment on the spot. The number of pilots at my base had gone a high of from more than eighty to fewer than ten. I was one of those last few. We knew what was coming but there wasn't many places to go. Then one day the music stopped. The company declared bankruptcy and got out of paying almost all moneys owed to employees for expenses, salary and benefits. I was more fortunate than many but still lost my job and a couple of months worth of accrued salary and vacation pay. Better than the pilots and cabin crew who had covered expenses though. In fact my last Europe trip wouldn't have happened had not the airplane owner advanced us 150% of the projected trip expenses. Honest fool that I am, I actually refunded him the unused funds even as JD pocketed my money... (having a clear conscience hurts sometimes)
Well sorry for the long story. I just wanted some of you to see what might be on the horizon. It's something you should be prepared for as a corporate or charter pilot. It can happen to you too. And the kicker? The guys who set the whole JetDirect Expansion/buyout scheme up in the first place remained rich, got richer and will continue to do so as long as people are attracted to the concept of "easy money". It WAS a pretty good run while it lasted though. I try to remember that whenever I feel a bout of bitterness coming on.
For those in a position that requires you to believe otherwise that's your business. Feel free to disregard. No sense in responding to this post though. Just keep believing. And preparing...
There's a sucker born every minute. (and aviation is rife with 'em!)
westhawk
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for sharing that story, westhawk. Quite couterptoductiv to keep people “highly motivated“ and asleep... why continue to work extremly hard and always go the extra mile, if doom lurks around the corner and the gain is pocketed by those bull$hitt talkers and promisers ? Oh, but always stay positive....
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It seems that everyone is an Industry Guru on this site! Some people are so brave, hiding behind pseudo names and firing unfounded accusations and “funny” comments! As you have my contact details, why don’t you contact me and tell me what you think???
The facts speak for themselves, we have been in the business for 20 years, offered employment to hundreds of pilots over the years and continue to do so for many. Some of them continue to be personal friends. We built the Company with the help of everyone and we are really proud of this and what we have achieved. The fact that we are flooded with applications from pilots also speaks for itself.
At the same time, we were pleased to see the back of many…the selfish, lazy whingers that did not fit in our Company. “Tinytim” – your style reminds me of one of them that we eventually managed to get rid-off some time ago. “Do you get my drift fella”???
I fully sympathise with some people’s concerns and Yes, this industry has been full of failures. However the good ones always find jobs and sometimes even better ones!
I was a pilot for many years and I do know what it is like to have to get up at 2am to go flying, in bad weather, with demanding passengers. I never let that faze me and more importantly I never criticised the hand that fed me, always supported my employer, even when I did not agree with their decisions. My advice to you guys – stop been part of the “Doom and Gloom” brigade, be positive and support your company…whoever you work for. If the company succeeds, hopefully you will get the benefit yourselves. Positive attitude guys in every part of your life…it works!
No need to “get the popcorn out” Global-Global…some of us have business to run, so I will not be reading further. As I said, you can contact me direct anytime, if you have anything constructive to say! :)
Good luck to all with your careers!
The facts speak for themselves, we have been in the business for 20 years, offered employment to hundreds of pilots over the years and continue to do so for many. Some of them continue to be personal friends. We built the Company with the help of everyone and we are really proud of this and what we have achieved. The fact that we are flooded with applications from pilots also speaks for itself.
At the same time, we were pleased to see the back of many…the selfish, lazy whingers that did not fit in our Company. “Tinytim” – your style reminds me of one of them that we eventually managed to get rid-off some time ago. “Do you get my drift fella”???
I fully sympathise with some people’s concerns and Yes, this industry has been full of failures. However the good ones always find jobs and sometimes even better ones!
I was a pilot for many years and I do know what it is like to have to get up at 2am to go flying, in bad weather, with demanding passengers. I never let that faze me and more importantly I never criticised the hand that fed me, always supported my employer, even when I did not agree with their decisions. My advice to you guys – stop been part of the “Doom and Gloom” brigade, be positive and support your company…whoever you work for. If the company succeeds, hopefully you will get the benefit yourselves. Positive attitude guys in every part of your life…it works!
No need to “get the popcorn out” Global-Global…some of us have business to run, so I will not be reading further. As I said, you can contact me direct anytime, if you have anything constructive to say! :)
Good luck to all with your careers!
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: London
Age: 50
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well Harburn you certainly took the pprune bait! And in doing so not only revealed beyond doubt who you are but also what you are.
Your arrogance and attitude to your work force sucks ....
You have already called most on this forum idiots and now transparently use it to threaten your employees not "to bite the hand that feeds" them....as there are plenty out there waiting to take their jobs.
The very reason people use Pprune ( you hypocrite as you are using it yourself!) is to give them a voice against people like you who pretend to listen but in reality manipulate the next round of redundancies to get rid of anyone who dares question you. Instead of which you surround yourself with compliant ( and in one case severely incompetent and damaged) yessmen to who, in any other circumstance, your loyalty might be seen as endearing.
Reference those "unfounded" rumours. you know the truth as do we all.......
And yes I do work for you.....but rest assured my hand is on the red ejector handle...as i see no future here for the above and all of the other reasons Which others far more clever than me have given.
Your arrogance and attitude to your work force sucks ....
You have already called most on this forum idiots and now transparently use it to threaten your employees not "to bite the hand that feeds" them....as there are plenty out there waiting to take their jobs.
The very reason people use Pprune ( you hypocrite as you are using it yourself!) is to give them a voice against people like you who pretend to listen but in reality manipulate the next round of redundancies to get rid of anyone who dares question you. Instead of which you surround yourself with compliant ( and in one case severely incompetent and damaged) yessmen to who, in any other circumstance, your loyalty might be seen as endearing.
Reference those "unfounded" rumours. you know the truth as do we all.......
And yes I do work for you.....but rest assured my hand is on the red ejector handle...as i see no future here for the above and all of the other reasons Which others far more clever than me have given.
Last edited by BuzzB; 17th Feb 2015 at 21:36. Reason: Typos
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can confirm - to question or to task management with any issue, even mentioning flight safety concerns can be a very serious offence in this business and automatically labels that person a troublemaker that "does not fit" even if they are actually being professional and are just minding to do their job. To live and practice what you have learnt in CRM and all those courses that they (or indirectly their clients) pay a lot of money for in order to produce a clean company training record on paper to the authority, has serious potential to end in conflict when challenged. It is such a contradiction.
That is probably also why so many spineless wonders make it climbing the corporate ladders with their elbows in this business.
"You better turn another "blind eye" to that paragraph in in the OM because we expect it from you - otherwise you are no longer a part of this family...".
No offense, I am not implying any company or any particular persona in particular here - it is just a part of the reality that I have experienced, not only once. It is no wonder that many collegues are feeling burnt out after serving this business for many years.
For people like Harburn - it just reads to be the normal wear and tear of the business he rules.
That is probably also why so many spineless wonders make it climbing the corporate ladders with their elbows in this business.
"You better turn another "blind eye" to that paragraph in in the OM because we expect it from you - otherwise you are no longer a part of this family...".
No offense, I am not implying any company or any particular persona in particular here - it is just a part of the reality that I have experienced, not only once. It is no wonder that many collegues are feeling burnt out after serving this business for many years.
For people like Harburn - it just reads to be the normal wear and tear of the business he rules.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Timbucktoo
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If there is one scrap of genuineness in Luxaviation's stated intention to try to build an industry leading and industry defining operation they should jump on this skanky low- budget flying club behaviour from a great height.
The management style of Harburn belongs to that of a seventeenth century mill owner.
Strange concept for Harburn to grasp I know but your employees are your greatest asset. Treat them with fairness, honesty and respect and not lap dogs to come wagging their tails when you call.......and you might be surprised at the pay back.
Mr Hansen........Are you listening???????
You certainly talked the talk what with all your forums and employee surveys about their perception of management ( whatever happened to that.....?)
Time to walk the walk Mr Hansen .....if any of us are to begin take you and your great plans seriously.
The management style of Harburn belongs to that of a seventeenth century mill owner.
Strange concept for Harburn to grasp I know but your employees are your greatest asset. Treat them with fairness, honesty and respect and not lap dogs to come wagging their tails when you call.......and you might be surprised at the pay back.
Mr Hansen........Are you listening???????
You certainly talked the talk what with all your forums and employee surveys about their perception of management ( whatever happened to that.....?)
Time to walk the walk Mr Hansen .....if any of us are to begin take you and your great plans seriously.
Last edited by Sheikh Zabik; 17th Feb 2015 at 10:40.