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Private jet crashed at Moscow Airport Vnukovo: 4 killed

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Private jet crashed at Moscow Airport Vnukovo: 4 killed

Old 22nd Oct 2014, 14:46
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The Driver got same day (immediately) TWO attorneys which must have cost him more money that he may earn for all his life. So, somebody paid for those attorneys. What for? Just to let them stay aside and look what the driver is telling to investigators? The situation with attorneys and driver is quite obvious for those who live in/know Russia.


??? ?????? :: ???????? ???????? ?? '???????'. ???????? ?????? ???????????? ????????? ??????????: ????????? ?????????

very interesting interview of attorney, BTW
(for non-Russian speaking - you may press the left button above the video window and switch to "text" then use google translator or similar to see the attorney's comments)
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Old 22nd Oct 2014, 19:34
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Originally Posted by Ular
The Driver got same day (immediately) TWO attorneys which must have cost him more money that he may earn for all his life. So, somebody paid for those attorneys. What for? Just to let them stay aside and look what the driver is telling to investigators? The situation with attorneys and driver is quite obvious for those who live in/know Russia.
One key thing to understand is that Russia has no adversarial system of law. Unlike in the West, where the attorney and the prosecutor compete to convince an impartial judge or a jury, in Russia the prosecutor and the judge are parts of the penal system (which works so reliably that acquittal rates among cases that reach the court are under 1%). This system was inherited from the Soviet Union, where the attorney was a state employee as well.
Since the attorney has no realistic hope of getting his client off the hook once his case reaches the court, his best hope is to work early and closely with investigators, to cooperate as much as possible while trying to redirect blame to someone else, in hopes that the prosecutor decides not to file the case.

One of the biggest reasons why suspects are advised not to talk to anyone in the West is that the suspect could be confronted with his early statements during the trial, and if the prosecutor can demonstrate inconsistencies or evidence of him lying to the jury, that is thought to push the jury towards the guilty verdict. In a non-adversarial, non-jury system this is irrelevant.
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Old 22nd Oct 2014, 20:08
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Where's the Snow?

Every image I have seen of this incident has no snow, so what was a snow blower doing anywhere near the runway?
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Old 22nd Oct 2014, 22:07
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Originally Posted by pcpmitch
Every image I have seen of this incident has no snow, so what was a snow blower doing anywhere near the runway?
Positioning machinery on the airfield in advance of snow arrival, or en route to/from maintenance?
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Old 22nd Oct 2014, 22:12
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or en route to/from maintenance?
On a runway?
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Old 22nd Oct 2014, 23:53
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Where's the snow

There's snow visible in some of the shots in the RT video linked from post #12. Whether they were current, or library, shots is arguable but there is certainly snow on the ground round the 747.
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 00:14
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Snoop

What was Margerie doing hiden in Moscoow vusiting the Russian first Minister during the ukrainian problem fter MH17???
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 02:16
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Originally Posted by mutt
On a runway?
Crossing a runway? Sure, why not?
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 07:48
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Private jet crashed at Moscow Airport Vnukovo: 4 killed

Vladimir Martynenko ? Can anybody please compare? Does that name sound more like Russian or Ukrainian or both ?
 
Old 23rd Oct 2014, 08:13
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Sure, why not?
In order to avoid situations like this?
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 08:16
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Conspiracy theories again from some posters. However, Margerie was known to be a non-political animal when it came to his industry. His mantra was always politics / wars must not get in the way of oil exploration. Very matter of fact and well known and respected for it.
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 09:32
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What goes around, comes around?

If I repeat If, language was a contributory factor in this sad event then who do we blame? As I understand it the agreed common aviation language is English (and of course French, Spanish, Russian. etc., etc..) Why? Because it is the most widely spoken language in the world, so anyone with a half a brain would clearly see the benefits of using this most common language, from a safety aspect alone. However in a lot of cases, national pride takes the front seat, over safety and common sense. This intransigence has been a contributory factor in air accidents in the past.

I rest my case.

Last edited by Sop_Monkey; 23rd Oct 2014 at 10:10.
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 09:35
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Acc. to "Tagesschau" 4 people in custody, 2 from ATC (the ATCO and her superior) and the "leading engineer for snow plowing", one from the "Flugaufsicht" (what ever that is in RUS). Director and deputy director of the airport have resigned according to the same article....

In German:

Nach Unfall auf Moskauer Flughafen: Festnahmen nach Tod des Total-Chefs | tagesschau.de

The snow plow driver has amended his statement - his lawyer said - "he might have had a few drops of alcohol".

I guess Mr.Putin is on a crusade....
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 09:56
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Because it is the most widely spoken language in the world,
And is relatively easy to learn and it is easy to transport a lot of info clearly and quickly in English. So yes, it would be good.

However, if the driver was not sober, or just lost, English might not have saved the day.

The reaction in Russia right now seems to make a neutral accident investigation/report less likely than I would like it to be.

But maybe the MAK and others will surprise us all.
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 10:03
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@ Sop_Monkey...

WTH are you talking about?

What does language have to do with this?

Are you suggesting the French crew spoke in French in Russia to ATC and the Russians spoke in Russian to the French crew?

As for English being the most spoken language in the world you are wrong!

Mandarin (Chinese) is the most spoken language in the world almost 3 times more than English, followed by Spanish and then English. So by your logic we should learn Mandarin and/or Spanish to communicate in aviation but I know that will never happen because you have a hard time learning French.
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 10:14
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That didn't take long did it.

A4, would you agree a one common language would be beneficial for the sake of aviation safety? If so why not English? It is the most widely spoken language, not "mother tongue". To try and assist you with this, most people are able to speak English in the technical field such as aviation.
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 10:21
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because you have a hard time learning French
There speaks a French Canadian, eh? Enough said.
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 11:15
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@ Sop_Monkey

ICAO as many official languages (English, French and Spanish to name a few).

ICAO was born from the Chicago convention in 1944 where the meetings were done in English and so English was then thought to be the "de facto" language but it was not.

Also since most of the aircraft manufacturers were of English background (at that time) that helped re-enforced the notion that English was the "official" language.

However, ICAO rules states that the local language of a country is allowed to be used but that English should be available at the request of a flight crew.

Good luck with that in certain areas of the world my friend. Even in South America English is not available at some airports.

But back to your original post... You never answered my question. What does French or Russian language have to do with this crash?
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 11:23
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@ M-ONGO...

I am not English nor French... I am a Canadian, period.

Just happens I am fluent in both of Canada's official languages.

And yes with Montreal/Ottawa ATC if flying with another francophone pilot I will communicate in French with ATC and I will do the same while flying in France.
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 11:26
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He wrote:

If I repeat If, language was a contributory factor
vs.

ou never answered my question. What does French or Russian language have to do with this crash?
is a good example of the non-benefit of a common language if one side simply does not want to understand the others side point of view.
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