Airplane falls at Santos (Brazil) with presidential candidate aboard
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From: Curitiba
Airplane falls at Santos (Brazil) with presidential candidate aboard
It's being informed in many Brazilian sites now:
Pictures from the accident site
Terra news
In English: Reuters
The airplane was a Cessna 560XL, prefix PR-AFA.
It's said that it departed from Rio de Janeiro (SDU) headed to Santos/Guaruja. The pilot aborted a first landing attempt and, after some instants, a strong noise was heard.
Pictures from the accident site
Terra news
In English: Reuters
The airplane was a Cessna 560XL, prefix PR-AFA.
It's said that it departed from Rio de Janeiro (SDU) headed to Santos/Guaruja. The pilot aborted a first landing attempt and, after some instants, a strong noise was heard.
Last edited by e1229; 13th August 2014 at 16:58. Reason: added Reuters link, so that non-portuguese speakers can read it too
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From: JAC Jackson Hole,
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From: LPPR
Someone's mentioning it may have been a mid-air collision with an helicopter...
Cavok Brasil ? Aviação e Fotografia - BRASIL: Acidente aéreo que matou presidenciável poder ter sido colisão aérea
(in portuguese I'm afraid)
Cavok Brasil ? Aviação e Fotografia - BRASIL: Acidente aéreo que matou presidenciável poder ter sido colisão aérea
(in portuguese I'm afraid)
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From: LAX
Black box fail
Apologies if posted elsewhere.
As reported by the BBC:
BBC News - Brazil crash: Black box 'did not record Campos flight'
As reported by the BBC:
The black box recovered from the wreckage of the plane crash that killed Brazilian presidential candidate Eduardo Campos did not record his flight, Brazilian Air Force (FAB) says.
It said the audio recording FAB experts had analysed was not related to the flight that crashed on Wednesday.
A spokesman said they were trying to determine what the recording was.
It said the audio recording FAB experts had analysed was not related to the flight that crashed on Wednesday.
A spokesman said they were trying to determine what the recording was.
I support PPRuNe
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From: Belo Horizonte, Brazil
Strange indeed. Bad weather, bad military airport with a mountain in one end. Only one way landing. After deciding going around the plane did not climb. Remained close to the groung trying to return to landing...
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From: Reading, UK
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Florida
Black box failed on Brazil politician's doomed flight
Black box failed on Brazil politician's doomed flight
he two hours of recordings it contained were not related to Wednesday's doomed flight, according to the military branch in charge of the investigation into the crash.
"The reasons why the recording does not correspond to the flight will be studied during the investigation," the air force added, noting that the voice recording was not "crucial" to the probe seeking to determine the causes of the crash.
Campos, 49, died when his campaign jet slammed into houses in Santos city in bad weather, killing all seven people on board and setting buildings alight.
He had been running third in opinion polls for the October election.
A popular former governor of the northeastern state of Pernambuco, Campos was married with five children, the youngest just six months old.
His remains are due to be buried in the coming days in Recife, capital of Pernambuco. An open air mass is also planned.
Black box failed on Brazil politician's doomed flight
he two hours of recordings it contained were not related to Wednesday's doomed flight, according to the military branch in charge of the investigation into the crash.
"The reasons why the recording does not correspond to the flight will be studied during the investigation," the air force added, noting that the voice recording was not "crucial" to the probe seeking to determine the causes of the crash.
Campos, 49, died when his campaign jet slammed into houses in Santos city in bad weather, killing all seven people on board and setting buildings alight.
He had been running third in opinion polls for the October election.
A popular former governor of the northeastern state of Pernambuco, Campos was married with five children, the youngest just six months old.
His remains are due to be buried in the coming days in Recife, capital of Pernambuco. An open air mass is also planned.
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From: Curitiba
Dotticom,
Could you elaborate a bit more?
So far this accident is kind of mysterious: it's said that CVR doesn't have conversations from the last flight, only from a previous one; and that the plane didn't had a FDR.
And the only audio available, so far, was from a Brazilian site (radarboxbrasil) that captured audio from the pilot-tower. But the conversation with the tower was a regular one, just stating that they missed the approach and would follow the procedure for that airport to try it again.
Could you elaborate a bit more?
So far this accident is kind of mysterious: it's said that CVR doesn't have conversations from the last flight, only from a previous one; and that the plane didn't had a FDR.
And the only audio available, so far, was from a Brazilian site (radarboxbrasil) that captured audio from the pilot-tower. But the conversation with the tower was a regular one, just stating that they missed the approach and would follow the procedure for that airport to try it again.
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From: Australia
Here is a link to security video footage of it in the last second of flight; it's descending almost vertically, so maybe dotticom is on to something.
Brazilian politician's plane crash caught on video
Brazilian politician's plane crash caught on video
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From: Germany
Dotticom, could you expand a bit on that?
Flap limit speed for Flap 7 and 15 is 200 KIAS, and for Flap 35 it's 175 KIAS. Is it that there's this restriction for retraction of Flap 35 above 200 KIAS?
In terms of certification, that would be operation out of limits in any case, to be over 175 KIAS with Flap 35. Observing operating limits would prevent this uncontrollable pitch-down.
On the other hand, to exceed 200 KIAS with Flap 7 or 15 ... I doubt that the aircraft would be uncontrollable with flap retraction only slightly above that limit speed. I cannot see it being certificated with such flight characteristics.
So, what's the deal?
Anyway, from what the video shows, it looks more like the pilot let the aircraft get away from him, perhaps trying to stay visual on a circling approach. It's banked over rather steeply in the video, what looks like 90º.
Flap limit speed for Flap 7 and 15 is 200 KIAS, and for Flap 35 it's 175 KIAS. Is it that there's this restriction for retraction of Flap 35 above 200 KIAS?
In terms of certification, that would be operation out of limits in any case, to be over 175 KIAS with Flap 35. Observing operating limits would prevent this uncontrollable pitch-down.
On the other hand, to exceed 200 KIAS with Flap 7 or 15 ... I doubt that the aircraft would be uncontrollable with flap retraction only slightly above that limit speed. I cannot see it being certificated with such flight characteristics.
So, what's the deal?
Anyway, from what the video shows, it looks more like the pilot let the aircraft get away from him, perhaps trying to stay visual on a circling approach. It's banked over rather steeply in the video, what looks like 90º.
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From: Germany
dotticom ...
Could you be a bit more specific? The problem appears when you retract the flaps from what setting between 205-225 KIAS? Is that from Flap 35?
Also, it's okay to retract the flaps either below 205 or above 225 KIAS? It's just within that 20-knot speed range that the problem with uncontrollable nose-down pitch occurs?
Is this in the book, or is it something you are told about and shown on the sim course for the 560XLS?
Also, it's okay to retract the flaps either below 205 or above 225 KIAS? It's just within that 20-knot speed range that the problem with uncontrollable nose-down pitch occurs?
Is this in the book, or is it something you are told about and shown on the sim course for the 560XLS?
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From: São Paulo
No damage to turbines before crash
The Citation's turbines have been examined by Pratt & Whitney in Sorocaba: Perícia descarta problemas nas turbinas do avião de Campos
"The tests found that there were no signs of birds in the engines, or of collision with any other equipment. There was also no sign of fire in the engines".
The aeronautic chart for the instrument approach, "Echo Uno" in the tower recordings, is http://www.aisweb.aer.mil.br/downloa...7-72567f175e3a
The crash location indicates a tighter radius curve than that indicated on the chart.
Older news is that a NOTAM closed the airport after the accident, until the NDBs could be verified; they soon were, and the airport re-opened.
"The tests found that there were no signs of birds in the engines, or of collision with any other equipment. There was also no sign of fire in the engines".
The aeronautic chart for the instrument approach, "Echo Uno" in the tower recordings, is http://www.aisweb.aer.mil.br/downloa...7-72567f175e3a
The crash location indicates a tighter radius curve than that indicated on the chart.
Older news is that a NOTAM closed the airport after the accident, until the NDBs could be verified; they soon were, and the airport re-opened.
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Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Not far from a big Lake
The crash location indicates a tighter radius curve than that indicated on the chart.
Does the type have any history of flap jams on retraction?
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From: Curitiba
Federal prosecutors (don't know a better word, in English, for this) are asking Brazilian Air force about the presence of VANT (non-tripulated airplanes, drones) on the area, if is there any missing, and so on.
It's based on pictures of the debris of the accident, where something that looks like the wheel of on e specific model is shown.
In portuguese: the classified request for information,
some blog post about it
A better picture of the probable drone
It's based on pictures of the debris of the accident, where something that looks like the wheel of on e specific model is shown.
In portuguese: the classified request for information,
some blog post about it
A better picture of the probable drone