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Deciding between Pilatus PC-12 or Citation

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Deciding between Pilatus PC-12 or Citation

Old 9th Aug 2014, 19:10
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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travb

I know someone who lives in portola valley. among other things she sings.

I lived in atherton briefly many years ago.

Go with a jet out of SJC. Single engine turboprops are nice, BUT:

a jet is safer in most situations


try to find someone else to do business with than the pilatus charter outfit.

I encourage you to think about this...a charter outfit has ITS OWN AGENDA over and above your client! I've worked for such managing places. THOUGH I DO NOT KNOW THIS ONE IN PARTICULAR! And it may be the best place in the world.


SO, do your homework and get a second opinion.


This out fit is near Chicago and might be a good source of info for a fee.

Banner Aviation
[email protected]

Anyplace that may manage your plane MIGHT get a kickback or commision for a sale.

BE CAREFUL.
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Old 9th Aug 2014, 23:21
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67cooper
your comments:- "Beware of putting the aircraft on someones 135 cert as they will be operating it in their own best interest for a profit. If the airplane is operated part 91 and managed by one of these companies their only motivation is the owners satisfaction regarding their performance."

Is a pretty bold negative statement to make, if you have any experience with bad behavior (135) then perhaps you should mention names (even a PM).

I am very familiar with a certain Part 91 and 135 operator, California-based, well respected, that operate a lot of aircraft, small to large, worldwide. Some they own, the others they operate for the owners.

In ALL cases when an owner wants this company to operate their aircraft they can stipulate whether they want other people to have the use of it for hire (135), or solely for themselves (91). They also can decide which charters they accept it they feel that may not be too profitable.

Obviously the Company is in it to make a profit, who isn't.
Regards,
f
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Old 10th Aug 2014, 00:53
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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I think 67cooper is just about right.


So many "scams" in aviation, tax breaks , promising more charter hours than will actually be flown and so many others.

I've seen them all. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT SOME PLACES ARE JUST FINE>

Its like anything. Be Careful

IT is very obvious to me that TRAVISB is new and is trying to help his boss or whomever. BUT get second opinions. Outside people who KNOW and not trying to sell this guy a plane.

The Bay area is full of rich folk now. Amazing amounts of money and prestige, but, and this is the BIG BUT, they know computers or their own world experience and can be conned by people with planes.

TRAVISB. Maybe your boss should just charter nice jets from a well known company rather than get into the headaches of ownership.

Think about it. WHAT HAPPENS when your brand new plane breaks down in timbuktu? IF you are chartering from a big company, they will send another plane.

Good Luck TRAVISB.
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Old 10th Aug 2014, 17:52
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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travB

It is a good thing to use this forum to ask questions, but I honestly believe you should convince your future airplane owner to use the services of a professional.

I mean: a professional consultant. In theory, all of us here are professionals and we all have our opinions and preferences. But the Aviation Consultant will be able only to listen to your boss' needs, sort out the unnecessary from the necessary / desirable and represent her/him in negotiations with airplane sellers. Worth every penny.

There are many reasons to buy a SE turboprop and there are equally many to buy an entry level jet. What's the best for you, this consultant will find out.

The good news is: there are people out there willing to invest in airplane.
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Old 11th Aug 2014, 03:31
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Homework is important. There are a lot of shady operators out there.
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Old 11th Aug 2014, 21:23
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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I would never consider any single engine TPs or Jets to buy simply because if you loose your engine you are forced to land somewhere which can take away your life within minutes while in a twin TP or Jet you have valuable minutes left to sort your options and have good chances to walk away from an engine failure...

Better be safe than sorry...
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Old 11th Aug 2014, 22:18
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Hi,

Have 6 years experience flying both (PC-12 Legacy/NG, and CJ3) out of Hayward, Oakland, San Jose, San Carlos, Palo Alto, and Moffett. PM me if you'd like some thoughts.

Cheers-
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Old 12th Aug 2014, 18:30
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting tidbit in the news pertinent to KSQL's PC-12 operator....seems times are good.
California's Surf Air orders 15+50 Pilatus PC-12NGs - ch-aviation.com
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Old 12th Aug 2014, 18:43
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Hmmmm......I seem to remember Avantair still trying to buy aircraft days before the whole shooting match came tumbling down.

Ordering aircraft is not a sign of a profitable operation.
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Old 13th Aug 2014, 03:33
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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67cooper
your comments:- "Beware of putting the aircraft on someones 135 cert as they will be operating it in their own best interest for a profit. If the airplane is operated part 91 and managed by one of these companies their only motivation is the owners satisfaction regarding their performance."

Is a pretty bold negative statement to make, if you have any experience with bad behavior (135) then perhaps you should mention names (even a PM).

I am very familiar with a certain Part 91 and 135 operator, California-based, well respected, that operate a lot of aircraft, small to large, worldwide. Some they own, the others they operate for the owners.

In ALL cases when an owner wants this company to operate their aircraft they can stipulate whether they want other people to have the use of it for hire (135), or solely for themselves (91). They also can decide which charters they accept it they feel that may not be too profitable.

Obviously the Company is in it to make a profit, who isn't.
Regards,
f

I'm pretty familiar with a large portion of socal operators, if you think I'm going to name names on a UK based website you're delusional. Why don't you speak more about this prominent entity that you're associated with? It could only be one of two, I wait with a sandwich.
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Old 13th Aug 2014, 14:50
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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67cooper
I also said "evan a PM"
Anyhow, its probably one of those two.
Cheers,
f
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Old 13th Aug 2014, 18:25
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Here is one more thought for you.

FIND a really good pilot and then have him search for the right plane for your boss.
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 07:39
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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glendalegoon

In my experience that's a really good way of paying for the perfect aircraft.....for the pilot.

Hire a company that has Pilots, Engineers, VAT / Tax experts and commercial understanding, it's always better to have multiple opinions from multiple perspectives to come up with a balanced view. IMHO if an owner ends up with the wrong solution, it's normally because the owner thought a pilot would know more about the business of aircraft than he did....obviously there are exceptions.
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 12:45
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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if you let the business of the aircraft come into play, it is probably better to charter and not own.
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 13:06
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People buy aircraft because they want one, not because it makes a good business decision - but if you're going to do it, have someone who understands the business (Tax, VAT, legal liabilities etc).
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Old 14th Aug 2014, 14:02
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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so hire a lawyer and a pilot


but who do you want when things go wrong in the plane? a good pilot or a good lawyer?

last time I checked there is no value added tax in the US
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