Private with commercial callsign
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Private with commercial callsign
Came across something strange last week.
Flight plan was filed G privately but use was made of company call sign.
Does anyone know of outside of possible OM A restrictions e.g EASA FAA that forbid this.
I always thought that if your private have to use REG number but trying to go through all regs can't find anything that supports this so in other words no restrictions to using company call sign for private flight.
Thx
Flight plan was filed G privately but use was made of company call sign.
Does anyone know of outside of possible OM A restrictions e.g EASA FAA that forbid this.
I always thought that if your private have to use REG number but trying to go through all regs can't find anything that supports this so in other words no restrictions to using company call sign for private flight.
Thx
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Where does this idea that a company callsign = commercial flight come from?
There is no such regulation, and there are quite a few callsigns issued to companies that are purely private.
A good example is Bernie Ecclestone's a/c which has the company callsign "Formula" and funnily enough it's always flight number one....
There is no such regulation, and there are quite a few callsigns issued to companies that are purely private.
A good example is Bernie Ecclestone's a/c which has the company callsign "Formula" and funnily enough it's always flight number one....
Likewise when flying VFR commercially in Europe we always used the tail reg.
Also, ATC in some parts of Africa get very confused if you don't have a call sign and try to fly using tail reg, even if a private flight. I had a long battle with Nouakchott ATC once when trying to fly through Mauritania privately as they could not accept that I had no call sign.
I don't think there is any rule.
Also, ATC in some parts of Africa get very confused if you don't have a call sign and try to fly using tail reg, even if a private flight. I had a long battle with Nouakchott ATC once when trying to fly through Mauritania privately as they could not accept that I had no call sign.
I don't think there is any rule.
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callsign
no problem to do in euro-land.
the acft operator has to apply for a call sign with Eurocontrol (i think so...)
so far I have operated to M reg jets under Callsign vs Registration
rgds
christoph
the acft operator has to apply for a call sign with Eurocontrol (i think so...)
so far I have operated to M reg jets under Callsign vs Registration
rgds
christoph
In the UK at least.....see AIC (Yellow) 97/2008, the area your interested in is 3 - 3.1;
Oh, and also this.....
F/o
3 3-letter designators
3.1 ICAO 3-letter Designators will normally only be assigned to:
(a) Aircraft operating agencies engaged in air transport operations in accordance with a full Aircraft Operators Certificate (AOC)
that are considered to have a need for an exclusive designator;
(b) aircraft operating agencies engaged in air transport (not in accordance with an AOC) or aerial work operations that can
demonstrate a need for an exclusive designator;
(c) government aircraft operating agencies;
(d) government authorities and services providing air navigation, communication and other services for international aviation;
(e) organisations, other than government organisations, providing services for international civil aviation.
The assignment of 3-letter Designators to aircraft operators other than those listed above may, in exceptional circumstances, be
approved at the discretion of DAP. 3-letter Designators will not under any circumstances be issued to individuals for personal use.
3.1 ICAO 3-letter Designators will normally only be assigned to:
(a) Aircraft operating agencies engaged in air transport operations in accordance with a full Aircraft Operators Certificate (AOC)
that are considered to have a need for an exclusive designator;
(b) aircraft operating agencies engaged in air transport (not in accordance with an AOC) or aerial work operations that can
demonstrate a need for an exclusive designator;
(c) government aircraft operating agencies;
(d) government authorities and services providing air navigation, communication and other services for international aviation;
(e) organisations, other than government organisations, providing services for international civil aviation.
The assignment of 3-letter Designators to aircraft operators other than those listed above may, in exceptional circumstances, be
approved at the discretion of DAP. 3-letter Designators will not under any circumstances be issued to individuals for personal use.
4 Telephony Designators
4.1 With the exception of State aircraft, ICAO Telephony Designators will normally only be assigned to AOC holders. Normally, no
more than one Telephony Designator will be registered for each aircraft operating agency, aeronautical authority or service.
4.2 Exceptionally, Telephony Designators may be assigned to non-AOC holders at the discretion of DAP. In such cases, the
assigned Telephony Designator may be used for flights operated in accordance with aircraft and pilot licensing requirements.
Telephony Designators will not under any circumstances be assigned to individuals for personal use.
4.3 Telephony Designators may be used as part of the radiotelephony callsign in accordance with ICAO Radiotelephony Procedures
(Annex 10, Volume 2) and CAP 413 Radiotelephony Manual. Telephony Designators should resemble as far as possible the name of
the aircraft operating agency or its function. Ideally, there should be a correlation between the three-letter designator, the Telephony
Designator and the name of the aircraft operating agency or its function.
4.4 In order to reduce the length of R/T transmissions, Telephony Designators should be brief and comprise if possible one word of
two or three syllables. It should not exceed two words. The Telephony Designator should be easily and phonetically pronounceable.
4.5 The use by aircraft operators of Telephony Designators relating to an Air Traffic Service Unit is not recommended and should be
avoided.
4.1 With the exception of State aircraft, ICAO Telephony Designators will normally only be assigned to AOC holders. Normally, no
more than one Telephony Designator will be registered for each aircraft operating agency, aeronautical authority or service.
4.2 Exceptionally, Telephony Designators may be assigned to non-AOC holders at the discretion of DAP. In such cases, the
assigned Telephony Designator may be used for flights operated in accordance with aircraft and pilot licensing requirements.
Telephony Designators will not under any circumstances be assigned to individuals for personal use.
4.3 Telephony Designators may be used as part of the radiotelephony callsign in accordance with ICAO Radiotelephony Procedures
(Annex 10, Volume 2) and CAP 413 Radiotelephony Manual. Telephony Designators should resemble as far as possible the name of
the aircraft operating agency or its function. Ideally, there should be a correlation between the three-letter designator, the Telephony
Designator and the name of the aircraft operating agency or its function.
4.4 In order to reduce the length of R/T transmissions, Telephony Designators should be brief and comprise if possible one word of
two or three syllables. It should not exceed two words. The Telephony Designator should be easily and phonetically pronounceable.
4.5 The use by aircraft operators of Telephony Designators relating to an Air Traffic Service Unit is not recommended and should be
avoided.
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you can use callsign without problems on "G" FPL. But expect to be under eye of SAFA insp., because they will usually consider you as AOC operator (and dont care when you fly single engine, single pilot etc.). 
Ryanair does that all the year with their Learjets, for example. Their Lears are M-Isle of Man registrated....so they use FPL and Callsigns as RYR1P, 3P, etc, and FPL as G, cause its mandatory any plane with M- reg fill it as G.
Basically i cant find any problem here...for instance lots of local and private airclubs, private flying-schools, air forces, aerial works, etc, they also have 3 letter icao code and they are not commercial air transport. I can remember also Hamlin Jet and Adolf Wurth "Wurth Aviation", wich are fully private, NO-AOC, and also have 3 code associated: HJL, WUE, etc.
Another curious exemple its the ATC services, airport authorities, etc wich also in many countries have 3 letter code associated, and dont have any planes at all...
AFAIK the callsign policy its one of the most "liberal" things in ATC...as long as it dont produce any sort of confusion, no problems...just my 2 cents.
PS: written this based on my european experience...not sure about the rest of the globe
Basically i cant find any problem here...for instance lots of local and private airclubs, private flying-schools, air forces, aerial works, etc, they also have 3 letter icao code and they are not commercial air transport. I can remember also Hamlin Jet and Adolf Wurth "Wurth Aviation", wich are fully private, NO-AOC, and also have 3 code associated: HJL, WUE, etc.
Another curious exemple its the ATC services, airport authorities, etc wich also in many countries have 3 letter code associated, and dont have any planes at all...
AFAIK the callsign policy its one of the most "liberal" things in ATC...as long as it dont produce any sort of confusion, no problems...just my 2 cents.
PS: written this based on my european experience...not sure about the rest of the globe
Last edited by JanetFlight; 14th Nov 2013 at 17:12.
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very interesting F/O but, where does it say that the AOC operator, once in receipt of the call-sign, can't use it for a private flight? It doesn't!
The call-sign is issued to the operator; he may then use it for any flights he operates, private or commercial.
The call-sign is issued to the operator; he may then use it for any flights he operates, private or commercial.
Ah, Tom......those days, well, spend half my life writing manuals and tied to a desk these days haha....
3 Point - thanks for the - ahem - advice! don't think I said anything about whether you could or couldn't? f*@k me! merely posted a few snippets of info. for the OP to maybe clarify where he thought he/she had gotten the idea from.....do what you want, couldn't give a toss personally whether you use a callsign or not....
F/o
3 Point - thanks for the - ahem - advice! don't think I said anything about whether you could or couldn't? f*@k me! merely posted a few snippets of info. for the OP to maybe clarify where he thought he/she had gotten the idea from.....do what you want, couldn't give a toss personally whether you use a callsign or not....
F/o
Lots of SAUDIA "SVA****", (*)=numbers, are done under the G FPL itens. Royalties on board.
IMHO the callsign its only a matter of ATC issues, nothing more than that...
IMHO the callsign its only a matter of ATC issues, nothing more than that...
Last edited by JanetFlight; 15th Nov 2013 at 01:46.
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I think that the reference of private use in F/O's description should be interpetated as for personal use.
We fly "corperate" (private aircraft owned by company for both company and personal use of owner) under EASA rules and our local CAA applied for us to ICAO in Montreal and after a while we were issued our requested callsign and ICAO 3 letter code for flightplan filing.
But as usual I guess that every local CAA has his own interpretation of the rules and since ICAO only accepts requests from local CAAs (found out that one the hard way), you are bound by what your local CAA desides.so in practice this means 27 different sets of rules.
We fly "corperate" (private aircraft owned by company for both company and personal use of owner) under EASA rules and our local CAA applied for us to ICAO in Montreal and after a while we were issued our requested callsign and ICAO 3 letter code for flightplan filing.
But as usual I guess that every local CAA has his own interpretation of the rules and since ICAO only accepts requests from local CAAs (found out that one the hard way), you are bound by what your local CAA desides.so in practice this means 27 different sets of rules.
