UK CAA 500 hrs in a multi crew enviroment MCC exemption
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UK CAA 500 hrs in a multi crew enviroment MCC exemption
Dear all.
After several e mails and telephone calls to the UK CAA and no response, I would like to ask the community!
I have a UK issued JAR CPL and fly the B200 in a Multi crew enviroment with several thousand of hours etc etc on an AOC that stipulates 2 pilots.
Under Lasors, I could apply for an MCC exemption when reaching 500 hrs multi crew time in a AOC that stipulates 2 pilots etc etc.
Under the new CAP 804, I see no mention of this.
Any info/experiance would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
After several e mails and telephone calls to the UK CAA and no response, I would like to ask the community!
I have a UK issued JAR CPL and fly the B200 in a Multi crew enviroment with several thousand of hours etc etc on an AOC that stipulates 2 pilots.
Under Lasors, I could apply for an MCC exemption when reaching 500 hrs multi crew time in a AOC that stipulates 2 pilots etc etc.
Under the new CAP 804, I see no mention of this.
Any info/experiance would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
How can you be flying on a multi-crew AOC if you don't already have an MCC?
IIRC the MCC exemption was only intended for ex-mil multi-crew pilots, or for "grandfather rights" for those with 500 hours multi-crew time before the introduction of the MCC. Even if there is still such an exemption, I don't think that you would qualify.
IIRC the MCC exemption was only intended for ex-mil multi-crew pilots, or for "grandfather rights" for those with 500 hours multi-crew time before the introduction of the MCC. Even if there is still such an exemption, I don't think that you would qualify.
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Well it was never the case that just because the AOC said 2 pilots in a SPA that you automatically got to log the time as dual crew or for that matter the second pilot could log anything.
The equipment fit had to be of a certain standard.
The SOP's had to written as multi crew.
The pilot checks had to be conducted as multi crew.
A MPA IR for the type was issued separately to the SPA IR.
And at all points it was inspected and signed off by a flight ops inspector.
Once that was all complete then both crew could log the time as multi crew.
I do know pilots who have tried to get hours through as a second pilot and the hours have been refused for license issue. One even managed to complete a MPA type rating and there was all manner of problems when they refused to put the type on due to lack of MCC. They also for a while were insisting that the whole type rating needed repeating again after the MCC was gained.
If your flying for an AOC outside UK CAA oversight or they haven't issued an approval for a UK AOC as multicrew I don't think your going to have much joy.
If its so you can do a Multicrew type rating I would just bite the bullet and find the cheapest MCC you can find and do it.
And trim you never needed it but could log the time. The boys on the MPA fisheries on the F406 could log multicrew and also be PIC on a CPL. The initial rating was a SPA then they were LPC'd as Multicrew.
Then when they moved on to the Jetstream they could use the LST as the ATPL test and not do the MCC because they had the 500hours multicrew time. They went then straight into the LHS with a ATPL.
The equipment fit had to be of a certain standard.
The SOP's had to written as multi crew.
The pilot checks had to be conducted as multi crew.
A MPA IR for the type was issued separately to the SPA IR.
And at all points it was inspected and signed off by a flight ops inspector.
Once that was all complete then both crew could log the time as multi crew.
I do know pilots who have tried to get hours through as a second pilot and the hours have been refused for license issue. One even managed to complete a MPA type rating and there was all manner of problems when they refused to put the type on due to lack of MCC. They also for a while were insisting that the whole type rating needed repeating again after the MCC was gained.
If your flying for an AOC outside UK CAA oversight or they haven't issued an approval for a UK AOC as multicrew I don't think your going to have much joy.
If its so you can do a Multicrew type rating I would just bite the bullet and find the cheapest MCC you can find and do it.
And trim you never needed it but could log the time. The boys on the MPA fisheries on the F406 could log multicrew and also be PIC on a CPL. The initial rating was a SPA then they were LPC'd as Multicrew.
Then when they moved on to the Jetstream they could use the LST as the ATPL test and not do the MCC because they had the 500hours multicrew time. They went then straight into the LHS with a ATPL.
Last edited by mad_jock; 13th Jul 2013 at 11:30.
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How can you be flying on a multi-crew AOC if you don't already have an MCC?
Single pilot aircraft requiring 2 pilots as per AOC.
IIRC the MCC exemption was only intended for ex-mil multi-crew pilots, or for "grandfather rights" for those with 500 hours multi-crew time before the introduction of the MCC. Even if there is still such an exemption, I don't think that you would qualify.
Negative open to all, definately up until EASA-FCL. But is it now?
From LASORS:
Other Multi-Pilot Experience
Requests for MCC credit will be considered from
applicants who have logged 500 hours as pilot in multi-pilot
public transport operations, even if that flying took place
in single-pilot certified aircraft. Where an applicant has
accrued such experience exercising the privileges of a
non-UK licence, in addition to the actual logbook record
of those hours, we will require documentary evidence
from both the operator and the national aviation authority
concerned confirming that the aircraft was required to be
operated exclusively by 2 pilots qualified on type - even on
non-revenue and positioning flights. The organisation(s)
under whose Air Operator’s Certificate the operations
were carried out must be clearly identified. A copy of
the non-UK ICAO licence and/or copy of the operator’s
manual AOC will also be required.
Single pilot aircraft requiring 2 pilots as per AOC.
IIRC the MCC exemption was only intended for ex-mil multi-crew pilots, or for "grandfather rights" for those with 500 hours multi-crew time before the introduction of the MCC. Even if there is still such an exemption, I don't think that you would qualify.
Negative open to all, definately up until EASA-FCL. But is it now?
From LASORS:
Other Multi-Pilot Experience
Requests for MCC credit will be considered from
applicants who have logged 500 hours as pilot in multi-pilot
public transport operations, even if that flying took place
in single-pilot certified aircraft. Where an applicant has
accrued such experience exercising the privileges of a
non-UK licence, in addition to the actual logbook record
of those hours, we will require documentary evidence
from both the operator and the national aviation authority
concerned confirming that the aircraft was required to be
operated exclusively by 2 pilots qualified on type - even on
non-revenue and positioning flights. The organisation(s)
under whose Air Operator’s Certificate the operations
were carried out must be clearly identified. A copy of
the non-UK ICAO licence and/or copy of the operator’s
manual AOC will also be required.
Single pilot aircraft requiring 2 pilots as per AOC.
Good luck if you can get away with it. MCC should just be part of line-training.
Last edited by Trim Stab; 14th Jul 2013 at 07:44.
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Trim I can quite believe that they were required to have a MCC
It all comes down to who the flight ops inspector was and what requirements they required to be put in the training manuals.
Another factor is who is doing the negotiating with said Flight ops inspector about the manuals.
I have seen first hand with a change in contract operator. The previous operator didn't have the multicrew permission and the next company got it. Using exactly the same aircraft it was just the part B and D had been written for multi crew ops.
It could be that training given was deemed to have covered all the syllabus of the MCC during the type rating and line training.
And that contact I gave you in the other thread should be able to sort this one out as well.
It all comes down to who the flight ops inspector was and what requirements they required to be put in the training manuals.
Another factor is who is doing the negotiating with said Flight ops inspector about the manuals.
I have seen first hand with a change in contract operator. The previous operator didn't have the multicrew permission and the next company got it. Using exactly the same aircraft it was just the part B and D had been written for multi crew ops.
It could be that training given was deemed to have covered all the syllabus of the MCC during the type rating and line training.
And that contact I gave you in the other thread should be able to sort this one out as well.
Last edited by mad_jock; 14th Jul 2013 at 08:11.
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Jock is correct. You don't need an MCC to fly a single pilot aircraft in a multi crew operation. I claimed the hours flown on 525's under an AOC to exempt me from an MCC to do the Challenger rating and this was accepted without any issue by the CAA. My chief pilot signed the hours flown as being in accordance with the AOC and that was good enough. My ATPL was issued with the Challenger rating and I went straight into the left seat.
That was a couple of years ago so I can't help you with the question of whether you can still do it. If you have already been flying multi crew and have used multi crew SOP's and done your renewals in a multi pilot environment I can't see why the exemption wouldn't still apply. The BE200 isn't required to be flown multi crew so make sure the multi crew SOPs have been accepted by the CAA and there isn't a way you could have flown the aircraft single pilot on public transport flights. If your ops manual required two appropriately trained and typed pilots for the king air and that's what the FOI signed off I suspect you are golden. I am pretty sure that Flight Precision, for instance, only fly the 200 in a multi pilot role due to the nature of their flying and the CAA would accept hours flown under their AOC.
Good luck
That was a couple of years ago so I can't help you with the question of whether you can still do it. If you have already been flying multi crew and have used multi crew SOP's and done your renewals in a multi pilot environment I can't see why the exemption wouldn't still apply. The BE200 isn't required to be flown multi crew so make sure the multi crew SOPs have been accepted by the CAA and there isn't a way you could have flown the aircraft single pilot on public transport flights. If your ops manual required two appropriately trained and typed pilots for the king air and that's what the FOI signed off I suspect you are golden. I am pretty sure that Flight Precision, for instance, only fly the 200 in a multi pilot role due to the nature of their flying and the CAA would accept hours flown under their AOC.
Good luck
LASORS is officially out of the window as per September 2012. CAP 804 still states the prerequisites under FCL.720.A, look under (b)(3) and subsequently (d)(3).
Link: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP804Jan2013.pdf
Link: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP804Jan2013.pdf
