non-EASA Type Ratings on EASA licence
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non-EASA Type Ratings on EASA licence
I wonder if anyone here has taken advantage of Article 8.5 of the EASA Aircrew Regulation (Part FCL)
What this means is that to comply with the EASA regs that require the crew of a (for example) N-reg aircraft operated by an EU resident to hold EASA qualifications, whilst the EASA CPL and IR requirements are more onerous, there is nothing to do in respect of the Type Rating.
I realise most operators will still be depending on the present Derogation, but wondered if anyone has experience of using the provisions of 8.5 above to get a TR valid only on (say) an N-reg airplane on an EASA licence and how the NAAs are implementing 8.5?
brgds
421C
Aeroplane or helicopter type ratings may be issued to holders of Part-FCL
licences that comply with the requirements for the issue of those ratings
established by a third country. Such ratings will be restricted to aircraft
registered in that third country. This restriction may be removed when the
pilot complies with the requirements in point C.1 of Annex III.
licences that comply with the requirements for the issue of those ratings
established by a third country. Such ratings will be restricted to aircraft
registered in that third country. This restriction may be removed when the
pilot complies with the requirements in point C.1 of Annex III.
I realise most operators will still be depending on the present Derogation, but wondered if anyone has experience of using the provisions of 8.5 above to get a TR valid only on (say) an N-reg airplane on an EASA licence and how the NAAs are implementing 8.5?
brgds
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Ignoring derogation for a moment, does this mean that, with a JAA (not yet EASA) ATPL and FAA ATP, I could fly a Challenger (say) in Europe by getting it on my FAA lic without needing it on my JAA/EASA as long as it was N-reg? What if the aircraft was Manx-reg but flown on the FAA lic validation?
In the real World, I guess there would be no reason why anyone would choose NOT to put the rating on both. However, with some of the more obscure types, it might be hard to get the type on a European ATPL. Certainly one of the types on my FAA would be very tricky.
Well spotted!
In the real World, I guess there would be no reason why anyone would choose NOT to put the rating on both. However, with some of the more obscure types, it might be hard to get the type on a European ATPL. Certainly one of the types on my FAA would be very tricky.
Well spotted!
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FAA and JAA
If you have an FAA licence with a rating on it, you can fly that N-reg aircraft anywhere in the world.
The confusing bit is this - in theory you can fly N-reg aircraft in a country with a validation system based on JAA licence and rules, but only in that country.
Ie, if you have a JAA licence with a Isle Man validation for a GV, then you could fly an N-reg GV in the Isle of Man only, as long as you don't leave it's territory and you have approval from the authority.
Never used it, don't even know if it is correct, however this is what the FAA told me.
This leads to something else - if it is the case, does that mean I could fly and N-reg GV on my JAA licence in all of Europe (as it is a common licence to all countries), as long as I had the GV on my JAA licence, and I didn't leave the territory of a common JAA licence JAR area (effectively all of mainland Europe)?
The confusing bit is this - in theory you can fly N-reg aircraft in a country with a validation system based on JAA licence and rules, but only in that country.
Ie, if you have a JAA licence with a Isle Man validation for a GV, then you could fly an N-reg GV in the Isle of Man only, as long as you don't leave it's territory and you have approval from the authority.
Never used it, don't even know if it is correct, however this is what the FAA told me.
This leads to something else - if it is the case, does that mean I could fly and N-reg GV on my JAA licence in all of Europe (as it is a common licence to all countries), as long as I had the GV on my JAA licence, and I didn't leave the territory of a common JAA licence JAR area (effectively all of mainland Europe)?
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BBJ,
Nope.
I've asked this question about a month ago. You are only allowed to fly in the country that issues the license (validation).
So, with a UK license only within UK airspace, French license only within France.
I don't think they have thought as far as you are trying to go. It is still the country that issues the license and validation.
GC
Nope.
I've asked this question about a month ago. You are only allowed to fly in the country that issues the license (validation).
So, with a UK license only within UK airspace, French license only within France.
I don't think they have thought as far as you are trying to go. It is still the country that issues the license and validation.
GC
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There might be a bit of confusion here. Under the new regs, if the OPERATOR of a non-EASA reg aircraft is European and it is to be flown in EASAland, the crew need to have both the licence of the aircraft of registry and the equivalent EASA licence. This does not seem to apply to non-European-based operators so US airlines and companies etc for example should be unaffected. This has been discussed extensively elsewhere on pprune.
However, the specific issue raised by the OP was news to me. It seems quite clear that the dispensation applies to the use, say, of a US licence (or 'license' as the FAA would say) to fly a US aircraft in Europe where the operator is European and the crew have EASA licences. In this case the EASA licence would not need the appropriate type rating. Where I am not clear is what would happen with the 'M' reg. The Isle of Man does not issue crew licences but validates the licences of other countries, if you validate your FAA licence and possess an EASA one, can you fly the M-reg aircraft without the equivalent type-rating on your EASA lic (without invoking the derogation) in future?
However, the specific issue raised by the OP was news to me. It seems quite clear that the dispensation applies to the use, say, of a US licence (or 'license' as the FAA would say) to fly a US aircraft in Europe where the operator is European and the crew have EASA licences. In this case the EASA licence would not need the appropriate type rating. Where I am not clear is what would happen with the 'M' reg. The Isle of Man does not issue crew licences but validates the licences of other countries, if you validate your FAA licence and possess an EASA one, can you fly the M-reg aircraft without the equivalent type-rating on your EASA lic (without invoking the derogation) in future?
Last edited by DefDefect; 12th Jun 2013 at 20:36. Reason: Edited to include description of operator
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Transfering TR
You can transfer your TR from your FAA Licence to an EASA Licence providing you are current on type, have in excess of 500hrs on type and complete a JAA/EASA LST checkride at the end of your next FAR 61.58 Recurrent Training.
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Yep, I agree with you, DensityAltitude. There would be no problem in general.
My specific interest in the OP's point is that one of my types would be very difficult to transfer as there is no longer a sim for the aircraft and, as far as I am aware, no TRE that is EASA approved. Thus it would be possible to use the 500 hour route but the check-ride would be an issue when it came round. Consequently, under the new regs requiring both non-EASA and EASA lic for European OPERATORS in Europe, I might have a problem after the derogation - although the OP's information suggests all would be well as long as I was flying the type on the register of the third-party country for which I had the licence and rating and was in possession of the equivalent EASA licence.
My question, therefore, relates to the Isle of Man situation. If I validate my FAA lic plus type rating and possess the equivalent EASA lic without type-rating, under the Manx system, can I fly in Europe on the Manx reg under the new rules? I have spoken to the Manx authority who were keen to help but were unsure themselves.
My specific interest in the OP's point is that one of my types would be very difficult to transfer as there is no longer a sim for the aircraft and, as far as I am aware, no TRE that is EASA approved. Thus it would be possible to use the 500 hour route but the check-ride would be an issue when it came round. Consequently, under the new regs requiring both non-EASA and EASA lic for European OPERATORS in Europe, I might have a problem after the derogation - although the OP's information suggests all would be well as long as I was flying the type on the register of the third-party country for which I had the licence and rating and was in possession of the equivalent EASA licence.
My question, therefore, relates to the Isle of Man situation. If I validate my FAA lic plus type rating and possess the equivalent EASA lic without type-rating, under the Manx system, can I fly in Europe on the Manx reg under the new rules? I have spoken to the Manx authority who were keen to help but were unsure themselves.
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My specific interest in the OP's point is that one of my types would be very
difficult to transfer as there is no longer a sim for the aircraft and, as far
as I am aware, no TRE that is EASA approved. Thus it would be possible to use
the 500 hour route but the check-ride would be an issue when it came round.
Consequently, under the new regs requiring both non-EASA and EASA lic for
European OPERATORS in Europe, I might have a problem after the derogation -
although the OP's information suggests all would be well as long as I was flying
the type on the register of the third-party country for which I had the licence
and rating and was in possession of the equivalent EASA licence.
difficult to transfer as there is no longer a sim for the aircraft and, as far
as I am aware, no TRE that is EASA approved. Thus it would be possible to use
the 500 hour route but the check-ride would be an issue when it came round.
Consequently, under the new regs requiring both non-EASA and EASA lic for
European OPERATORS in Europe, I might have a problem after the derogation -
although the OP's information suggests all would be well as long as I was flying
the type on the register of the third-party country for which I had the licence
and rating and was in possession of the equivalent EASA licence.
My understanding is that article 8.5 exactly address your situation, as you have written. Of course, you'll want to check from a more authoritative source than an anonymous bloke on pprune. To be honest, it's pretty plainly written.
Having said that, the plainness of the text does seem to work against the M register case. It suggests you'd need a TR issued by the Manx authority. This is potentially a huge issue for the M, so putting it bluntly, I'd expect their customers to push them to do some work on this!
There is a further problem with Types that do not have a type rating on a 3rd country register (eg. the King Air on the N or M) but require an EASA Type Rating (or type-specific Class Rating). It's not clear whether the qualifications acceptable to the 3rd country would satisfy 8.5 or whether an EASA type qualification would be needed.
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CAP 804 Page 535 & 536
Section 4 Part Q, Subpart 2 Page 3
C. ACCEPTANCE OF CLASS AND TYPE RATINGS
(1) A valid class or type rating contained in a licence issued by a third country
may be inserted in a Part-FCL licence provided that the applicant:
(a) complies with the experience requirements and the prerequisites for the
issue of the applicable type or class rating in accordance with Part-FCL;
(b) passes the relevant skill test for the issue of the applicable type or class rating
in accordance with Part-FCL;
(c) is in current flying practice;
(d) has no less than:
(i) for aeroplane class ratings, 100 hours of flight experience as a pilot in that
class;
(ii) for aeroplane type ratings, 500 hours of flight experience as a pilot in that
type;
(iii) for single-engine helicopters with a maximum certificated take-off mass
of up to 3 175 kg, 100 hours of flight experience as a pilot in that type;
(iv) for all other helicopters, 350 hours of flight experience as a pilot in that
type.
Section 4 Part Q, Subpart 2 Page 3
C. ACCEPTANCE OF CLASS AND TYPE RATINGS
(1) A valid class or type rating contained in a licence issued by a third country
may be inserted in a Part-FCL licence provided that the applicant:
(a) complies with the experience requirements and the prerequisites for the
issue of the applicable type or class rating in accordance with Part-FCL;
(b) passes the relevant skill test for the issue of the applicable type or class rating
in accordance with Part-FCL;
(c) is in current flying practice;
(d) has no less than:
(i) for aeroplane class ratings, 100 hours of flight experience as a pilot in that
class;
(ii) for aeroplane type ratings, 500 hours of flight experience as a pilot in that
type;
(iii) for single-engine helicopters with a maximum certificated take-off mass
of up to 3 175 kg, 100 hours of flight experience as a pilot in that type;
(iv) for all other helicopters, 350 hours of flight experience as a pilot in that
type.
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So flying on an IcAO licence with a b737 rating,i can transfer it to my easa licence with a simple skill test while on the other hand my easea 737 is expired and the uk caa tells me ii need to redo the whole rating....well thats a no brainer ..is it??
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"a no brainer" ,kind of sum up th e whol f
ing mess.
still onwards and upwards, but the legislators are! in the non "drivng seat"
so the upwards bit, just becomes more and more of a onward and boged downwards by ,well who needs explitives, or adjective ,we all know
ing mess.still onwards and upwards, but the legislators are! in the non "drivng seat"
so the upwards bit, just becomes more and more of a onward and boged downwards by ,well who needs explitives, or adjective ,we all know
I realise most operators will still be depending on the present Derogation, but wondered if anyone has experience of using the provisions of 8.5 above to get a TR valid only on (say) an N-reg airplane on an EASA licence
As you stated, it states valid only for US registered aircraft only as its based on my FAA licence.
275 Euro's, a copy of your training records and last sim, FAA licence, medical and took about one month. Im in the process of doing it again for a new type but have to wait until the FAA issue a full new licence as EASA wont accept a temp airman's certificate.
Tried this with the UK CAA to no avail, hence why I changed to the much more user friendly IAA.
The Isle of Man validation is based on my FAA licence though, as the IAA EASA licence states clearly US registered aircraft only.
