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Dassault Falcon 200

Old 8th Oct 2012, 23:51
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil
Age: 30
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Dassault Falcon 200

Hi

What can you say about Dassault Falcon 200?

I have been quoted for a job as a F/O in this type of plane, but at this time I can't access any type of content about the aircraft, like manuals, etc, from the employers, as I'm waiting for them to start my en-route only training.

So, I'm here requesting for the ones who fly/flew this type (and the Falcon 20 as they are very close to each other) any type of tips, documents, manuals, diagrams... or a word about flying this machine.

This is, also, my first post at PPRuNe

Best Regards,

Thales Coelho

Last edited by Thales Coelho; 12th Oct 2012 at 20:34.
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 01:56
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Join Date: Dec 2002
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There's still some flying?

GF
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 07:00
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Join Date: Nov 2002
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Never had the chance to fly one myself and I guess it will be a FAA registered Falcon 200 in your case.
About 30 F200s are still flying. I know one based in France (M-DEJB) and another in Moscow (VP-CCP).


A first introduction (although based on the Falcon 20).
Da20.htm

Limitations for all Falcon 20s/200 (FAA type certificate)
http://www.ceoxaviation.com/CHAPTERS...Datos/A7eu.pdf

Good luck!

Last edited by FLEXJET; 9th Oct 2012 at 07:03.
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 09:37
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Join Date: Aug 2000
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The US Coast Guard operated a fleet (about 40) of them but I believe they are in the process of being phased out. It is possible (?) that some on the private register are ex Coast Guard. Pilots loved to fly them as I understand they had all the good handling qualities of the Falcon 20's but the ATF3 Engine costs were well above horrendous. As said there are only a couple in Europe and support is minimal for the engine. I dread to think what the costs are now for the engine, that said the Coast Guard carried a large stock of spare engines which may be out on the market. The age of the aircraft tends to preclude electronic documents but Flight Safety still run F20 courses

Mike Echo
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 13:21
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Belo Horizonte, Brazil
Age: 30
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Oh thanks for everyone!

The airplane is currently in USA and will be exported to Brazil, under ANAC rules and register, it will be based in Brasilia (SBBR/BSB).

Unfortunately, as I will be the 3rd pilot (2 captains and 1 F/O), I`m totally uninformed about what`s happening. The jet will be operated under an Air Taxi, but as a private service. The only thing I know is that one of the captains is already doing his Type Rate in USA (how?)

The Airplane Driver website is a very good reading.

One more time, Thanks!

Best Regards

Thales Coelho
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Old 9th Oct 2012, 15:28
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Simulator

FSI has a Level D Falcon 20-F sim at the DFW facility.
ksjc is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2012, 07:28
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Falcon 200

Thales Coelho:

I cannot help with manuals for the 200, but have some manuals on the Falcon 20 E and F series, a lot of time on them in the past.

Rgds

Tmb
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Old 10th Oct 2012, 09:13
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Falcon 200

The 200 is a marvellous aircraft marred (in my opinion) by those engines. They are not only horrendously expensive to maintain but also poor in operation when compared with modern, or for that matter even contemporarily available, power plants. If you need to go-around, you'll have time to push the levers forward and then pop down the back to make a cup of coffee and still be back up-front before anything happens.....!

Whilst it looks so very similar to a 20, it is oddly enough rather more like a 50 with one engine missing! The FAA, as far as I recall, regarded the 20 and 200 as different types.

The chap to contact for information is Darrell Rahn (Bizav Training?) in the States if he is still involved. He is 'Mr Falcon 200' and seems to do nearly all the training outside of the US Coastguard.

I've flown a few newer, shinier and more expensive aircraft but I don't think any of them handled better than a 200.
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Old 10th Oct 2012, 10:37
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I have manuals for the 200 so pm me. Great airframe a two engined DA50 really , ATF Engines very unique ATF3 Online Museum
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Old 10th Oct 2012, 18:25
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So the Falcon 200 is more to a Falcon 50 than a 20? Is better to study or try to understand the systems of a Falcon 50, for example, if I cannot get any material of Falcon 200?

densityaltitude and Tmbstory, I`ve pm you.
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Old 12th Oct 2012, 18:36
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Join Date: Jan 2004
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Everything is "special" on a 200; 3 spools engine, Falcon 50 parts, Riveted fuselage, full wing slats; "Analog DEEC".

Darrell is indeed the guy to speak with.

We got the world record between Gander and Paris in a 200; 4h24 minutes ! a blast !

Downside : it is more expensive to operate than a 900; burn the same amount of fuel, take half of the payload , and go halfway than a 900; but they cost nothing to buy, and may be you could find someone that will pay you to take it. There is virtually no loan engines ( they are different from the coast guard one's; UH25 have 5400 Lbs of thrust vs 5200 on the 200). if your plane has no reverses, tailwind start is a no-no.

The only "tip" i can give you , will be to be careful when setting take off power. 60% stabilized, 80% stabilized, then let go the brakes and firewall; caution with Xwind on power up. Then 800C of ITT is a good target for the initial thrust reduction ( noise and speed); it is barely stage 3.

You ill have a loads of fun, but the mechanics also..but it is a safe airframe; ALL the 200's are in a flyable condition now...

A falcon 50 sim can be used for training and the profiles, same avionics, the instructor is just "adjusting" the central engine thrust

Last edited by CL300; 12th Oct 2012 at 18:38.
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Old 4th Jun 2013, 19:48
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: France
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FALCON 200 - ATF3 engine

Hi,

Is there someone who knows companies who do in Europe service and support for the ATF3 Engine for a Falcon 200?

Has far I know beside the M-DEJB there is also the VP-CCP (ex HB-VNG) the M-ENTA (ex EC-JBH) in Europe flying.

Thanks
Marc
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Old 5th Jun 2013, 09:19
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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DFS at Paris used to have a couple of chaps that still knew the engines. Take a large pot of gold...(not cheap).
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Old 5th Jun 2013, 14:06
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Museum pieces now but as described F50 thru and thru. My advice is to buy one of those if you want a small Falcon. The F20 might work if range more than 1000nm isn't an issue.

If the owners don't have an MSP type plan on the engines they either have more money than God or need certifying.

There are no spare engines outside the plan and they are probably out on other frames.

The hourly MSP cost for both engines is horrendous. Memory fading but last i saw was USD$1850. Support outside the continental US will be a downtime problem.
Usual superb Falcon airframe and outstanding low level fuel economy as it was the commercial take on an aircraft (Guardian) developed for a USCG contract.

My advice would be ride it for as long as it lasts but be ready to bail when it turns to do do as it inevitably will unless the owners have very very deep pockets.

The usual motivation for purchase of said type is the cheap purchase price and that the owners will almost pay you to take it away.

You get exactly what you pay for, when it breaks donate it to the local kindergarten as a playground. Not one of M'sieu Dassaults best commercial efforts although the Guardian has done sterling service and USCG has deepish pockets.

best of luck
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Old 10th Jun 2013, 21:11
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Thanks DefD. So DFS in Paris is the only one in Europe.

Best regards
Marc
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Old 10th Jun 2013, 21:24
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Thanks gaunty.

You means the F20 retrofitted with TFE-731-5BR?

Best regards
Marc
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Old 15th Jun 2013, 14:02
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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After 41 years in the business and many type ratings this is the best handling plane I've ever flown, however the cost of engine and air frame maintenance is horrific.
I have been flying VCCP recently and have plenty of relevant information on the aircraft.
If you get to fly it you will have a great time!
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Old 4th Apr 2014, 12:45
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Toulouse
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fish

Hi all,

Does anyone have any contact info for these aircraft? (operator/owner)
M-DEJB, VP-CCP and M-ENTA.

Thanks
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Old 25th Jun 2014, 17:11
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: BVI
Age: 33
Posts: 1
POH Falcon 20

Good day all,

I am flying in the BVI and a friend of me is starting operation on a DA20, we are looking for a POH of a Falcon 20 and/or an operational manual for the DA20.
If one of you is flying one somewhere in the world or have an operational manual even from years ago, I am interested.

Thanks a lot,

Julien
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Old 26th Jun 2014, 12:58
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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some more info ...

Da20.htm
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