Long-term prop aircraft lease
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Long-term prop aircraft lease
Hello all,
I think this is the best forum for my questions.
1. In Europe, where would I be able to borrow/rent a small twin or large single-engine aircraft from, seating around 10-15? Single pilot.
2. I use Google but I don't really know what search terms to use without getting flying clubs coming up or large companies renting out jets for hundreds of thousands a month.
Would anyone have any ideas about prices? 2,000E/month? This would be long-term leasing and based in Hungary.
Does anyone know of a little leasing company or group of aircraft owners?
PM's welcome if necessary.
Thanks kindly,
TP.
I think this is the best forum for my questions.
1. In Europe, where would I be able to borrow/rent a small twin or large single-engine aircraft from, seating around 10-15? Single pilot.
2. I use Google but I don't really know what search terms to use without getting flying clubs coming up or large companies renting out jets for hundreds of thousands a month.
Would anyone have any ideas about prices? 2,000E/month? This would be long-term leasing and based in Hungary.
Does anyone know of a little leasing company or group of aircraft owners?
PM's welcome if necessary.
Thanks kindly,
TP.
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Your going to have to redifine your questions.
Is it going to be private transport or public transport.
What level of lease is it going to be.
How many hours per month are you going to fly.
Who is the pilot thats going to fly it.
Is it going to be private transport or public transport.
What level of lease is it going to be.
How many hours per month are you going to fly.
Who is the pilot thats going to fly it.
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Thank you for your request for precisions.
1. Is it going to be private transport or public transport - Public, not private.
2. What level of lease is it going to be - I don't understand the question I'm afraid.
3. How many hours per month are you going to fly - Roughly in my head, around 100hrs.
4. Who is the pilot thats going to fly it - I will either employ 2 pilots to work alternately, but perhaps I will be renewing my CPL stuff soon and I might be involved in it.
Trust this helps you help me
Best,
TP
1. Is it going to be private transport or public transport - Public, not private.
2. What level of lease is it going to be - I don't understand the question I'm afraid.
3. How many hours per month are you going to fly - Roughly in my head, around 100hrs.
4. Who is the pilot thats going to fly it - I will either employ 2 pilots to work alternately, but perhaps I will be renewing my CPL stuff soon and I might be involved in it.
Trust this helps you help me
Best,
TP
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I see. Well, let's go down to the largest single crew type possible then! Don't need to waste dosh on crews when, I'm supposing, I shan't be setting the world on fire with passenger numbers in the early months! We're talking a handful of tourists from A to B o a 45 min jobby. Pulling pins and push back for that? Happy to be informed if I'm missing something. This is new territory, hence post
AOC, this is...? (I could guess, but I don't know!)
Whilst I'm happy to learn such aforementioned tidbits, might anybody know of where I could find a plane for long-term, roughly 100hrs/month lease for a reasonable bit of dosh? That way, I could explain to them the situation and get hard figures.
I'm not looking at starting up an airline; it's merely a little business idea that I believe will work and, as I hope you well understand, I'd rather not blurt it all out online, but happy to share a bit via PM should anyone should or prove to be valuable with interest
Cheers,
TP
AOC, this is...? (I could guess, but I don't know!)
Whilst I'm happy to learn such aforementioned tidbits, might anybody know of where I could find a plane for long-term, roughly 100hrs/month lease for a reasonable bit of dosh? That way, I could explain to them the situation and get hard figures.
I'm not looking at starting up an airline; it's merely a little business idea that I believe will work and, as I hope you well understand, I'd rather not blurt it all out online, but happy to share a bit via PM should anyone should or prove to be valuable with interest
Cheers,
TP
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In order to operate a public transport flight, you must have the approval of the national aviation authority. This comes in the form of a Air operators certificate. You cannot operate without this. I suggest you do a search on here for more information.
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You need some old antanov heap of ****e then, with Russian pilot to fly it. Don't worry about the maintence those russian heaps don't need any and the pilot will look after the rest.
With your level of legality so far don't worry about work permits or any of that nonsense it will be fine.
If though your wanting to do it legally you looking at least a million start up costs if going solo. And half that if you can tag onto someones elses air operator certificate. The actual cost of the aircraft will be about 1000 euro's an hour but you will need another 500 euro's an hour for all the legal stuff
With your level of legality so far don't worry about work permits or any of that nonsense it will be fine.
If though your wanting to do it legally you looking at least a million start up costs if going solo. And half that if you can tag onto someones elses air operator certificate. The actual cost of the aircraft will be about 1000 euro's an hour but you will need another 500 euro's an hour for all the legal stuff
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Hmm..
I will continue my research in more depth then before coming here and asking anything else!
I find it incomprehensible that I can't carry a few tourists a day on a 45 minute flight in some relatively big, single pilot cessna. I'm not looking to take on Easyjet!
Surely I can rent some aircraft from a company for XK euros/month on a 'simple basis' and my costs would only be landing fees, fuel and whatever else may come up.
Am I not explaining myself or am I dreaming? There are lots of little companies, family-owned even, who have 1 or 2 little planes who fly the odd tourists from point A to point B. I find it hard to imagine how they're dealing with 6 figure numbers!?
If so, I shall reconsider my entire plan entirely.
I will continue my research in more depth then before coming here and asking anything else!
I find it incomprehensible that I can't carry a few tourists a day on a 45 minute flight in some relatively big, single pilot cessna. I'm not looking to take on Easyjet!
Surely I can rent some aircraft from a company for XK euros/month on a 'simple basis' and my costs would only be landing fees, fuel and whatever else may come up.
Am I not explaining myself or am I dreaming? There are lots of little companies, family-owned even, who have 1 or 2 little planes who fly the odd tourists from point A to point B. I find it hard to imagine how they're dealing with 6 figure numbers!?
If so, I shall reconsider my entire plan entirely.
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Your not only dreaming your on drugs.
You have a whole heap of hoemwork to go and do. I susggest contacting your local Aviation Authority and see what they think.
To be honest as pro pilots we get exposed to plans like this monthly. Everyone thinks they have the perfect buisness plan.
Never yet seen one actually succeed.
You have a whole heap of hoemwork to go and do. I susggest contacting your local Aviation Authority and see what they think.
To be honest as pro pilots we get exposed to plans like this monthly. Everyone thinks they have the perfect buisness plan.
Never yet seen one actually succeed.
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Amusing.
So what about all these little pleasure flight companies? Those with sea-planes in Vancouver (Island) for example? A minimal amount of float planes they have. All coastal regions which have sight-seeing flights? Mini A-B ops running in the outbacks...
I'm looking at doing this in Hungary. It's not as crap out there as some may think given it's an 'Eastern European' country and all the unfortunate stereotyping that goes with it.
I'd go into the business plan idea but as you say, probably a waste of time. I'll however get in touch with the right people in Hungarian aviation (have a few already) and see what grows.
Appreciate comments so far, however.
Best,
TP
So what about all these little pleasure flight companies? Those with sea-planes in Vancouver (Island) for example? A minimal amount of float planes they have. All coastal regions which have sight-seeing flights? Mini A-B ops running in the outbacks...
I'm looking at doing this in Hungary. It's not as crap out there as some may think given it's an 'Eastern European' country and all the unfortunate stereotyping that goes with it.
I'd go into the business plan idea but as you say, probably a waste of time. I'll however get in touch with the right people in Hungarian aviation (have a few already) and see what grows.
Appreciate comments so far, however.
Best,
TP
Last edited by Tonic Please; 1st Oct 2012 at 15:15.
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Completely different setup in the states/ canada.
There are two types of AOC
A whats called A to A where you come back to where you have started and its limited to something like 4 seats.
And a A to B which it starts getting very expensive very quickly which allows you to take off in one airport and land in another..
Hungary is part of EASA so will have the same rules as the rest of europe.
There are two types of AOC
A whats called A to A where you come back to where you have started and its limited to something like 4 seats.
And a A to B which it starts getting very expensive very quickly which allows you to take off in one airport and land in another..
Hungary is part of EASA so will have the same rules as the rest of europe.
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How can you have a CPL and not know what a charter or AOC is? These are the fundamentals of obtaining a CPL. Every CPL knows this. There is little difference between a PPL and CPL except to operate under an AOC on charter (or similar).
Obviously you don't have a CPL and with no disrespect, have no idea about aviation, I suggest you approach a consultant and get some advice from them. You will be in over your head within 2 weeks if you lay one cent down on this venture without consulting the right people.
So far, none of what you've suggested is at all possible under any circumstance. Either open the purse as suggested, or start scaling back significantly.
Av.
Obviously you don't have a CPL and with no disrespect, have no idea about aviation, I suggest you approach a consultant and get some advice from them. You will be in over your head within 2 weeks if you lay one cent down on this venture without consulting the right people.
So far, none of what you've suggested is at all possible under any circumstance. Either open the purse as suggested, or start scaling back significantly.
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This comes up surprisingly often on these forums. Usually a recent "graduate" of one of the glossy schools, who's parents cant afford to buy them a job.
Despite having recently studied air law, they still have no clue about how the industry works, or what their licence entitles them to do!
Despite having recently studied air law, they still have no clue about how the industry works, or what their licence entitles them to do!
Last edited by PURPLE PITOT; 1st Oct 2012 at 16:59.
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This place amazes me.
I think it's about time I close my account and give this site up. It's not only my thread here, it's others. The assumptions some people make just astound me.
Simple question about a company someone might know of where I could lease an aircraft. A simple idea I have and fine, maybe it won't take off... not a problem, I have my own income and life but honestly, what drives some people to respond in certain ways and gather together is truly astonishing.
Appreciate comments and links otherwise, so thank you.
Best,
TP
I think it's about time I close my account and give this site up. It's not only my thread here, it's others. The assumptions some people make just astound me.
Simple question about a company someone might know of where I could lease an aircraft. A simple idea I have and fine, maybe it won't take off... not a problem, I have my own income and life but honestly, what drives some people to respond in certain ways and gather together is truly astonishing.
Appreciate comments and links otherwise, so thank you.
Best,
TP
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Don't take it personally. This question pops up regularly in the 20 years i have been aviating for a living, and will have done so long before that. It gets a bit tedious telling people why they can't just hire a plane and go barnstorming/ pleasure flying/ air taxi as a business.
Europe is over regulated by beaurocrats, and you have to follow the same rules as an airline. This is why the lighter end of GA is in such a poor state.
It is also annoying that people who hold professional licences don't know the rules, or where to find them.
Europe is over regulated by beaurocrats, and you have to follow the same rules as an airline. This is why the lighter end of GA is in such a poor state.
It is also annoying that people who hold professional licences don't know the rules, or where to find them.
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And just watch yourself and your bank account.
That size of operation is notorious for sharks operating who will have zero problem with taking you to the cleaners and dumping you if they even get a sniff at making 10 euros out of it.
That size of operation is notorious for sharks operating who will have zero problem with taking you to the cleaners and dumping you if they even get a sniff at making 10 euros out of it.