GA Pilot perception
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Well I started in GA, then went to an airline and then went corporate. Seems to dispell that myth.
Airlines just don't like paying for anything, they just want to nick someone trained at someone else's expense an corporate don't won't the rigid roster brigade. It's all quite simple.
Airlines just don't like paying for anything, they just want to nick someone trained at someone else's expense an corporate don't won't the rigid roster brigade. It's all quite simple.
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I think there's a certain truth to it, but not at all universal. When I was at the Johnson Creek fly-in, in ID, with the Commander in May, there were quite a few 747/777 captains/FO's there with their 185's and Maules. And whenever I park the old girl up at some fancy FBO and soil their pristine tarmac with my oil leaks, there's always some G5 crew member strolling up talking about how he remember flying one of these back in the days or something.
But there's a certain younger (mostly, not always) epaulette-and-sunglasses type that show very little patience or interest in GA. They'll come around one day after the stigma of sweating through a CPL in a 172 has left them, I'm sure.
But there's a certain younger (mostly, not always) epaulette-and-sunglasses type that show very little patience or interest in GA. They'll come around one day after the stigma of sweating through a CPL in a 172 has left them, I'm sure.
Last edited by AdamFrisch; 9th Sep 2012 at 19:27.
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No proof as such from me (Paxman, 
) was just interested in the thoughts of those out there.
I heard it said from a TRE / ex-airline recruiter who said 'we don't know what we're getingt when hiring from GA'. Could see the point, to a degree.
G
) was just interested in the thoughts of those out there. I heard it said from a TRE / ex-airline recruiter who said 'we don't know what we're getingt when hiring from GA'. Could see the point, to a degree.
G
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I heard it said from a TRE / ex-airline recruiter who said 'we don't know what we're getingt when hiring from GA'.
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Gear,
With respect Sir, therein often lies the problem. Having prioritised all of those things, they have forgotten (if they ever learned) how to operate the aeroplane safely.
Not everyone of course, but I'm afraid a frighteningly large percentage.
6
With respect Sir, therein often lies the problem. Having prioritised all of those things, they have forgotten (if they ever learned) how to operate the aeroplane safely.
Not everyone of course, but I'm afraid a frighteningly large percentage.
6
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they have forgotten (if they ever learned) how to operate the aeroplane safely.
Most likely you are not gentleman enough...
Last edited by His dudeness; 10th Sep 2012 at 06:49.
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I'm sorry to say, I have tried to keep an open mind about corporate only backgrounds, but I've now been burned twice (agreeing to hire two individuals on two separate occasions) and I won't be doing it again.
Agreeable characters otherwise, their lack of discipline and logic translated into a complete disregard of SOPs, and very poor airmanship. The particular rub was that both of them seemed to think they were privy to some special kind of knowledge (like being able to depart with ice on the wing, skirting CBs, willfully disregarding AFM limitations) that the rest of us "airline" types weren't, with the added irony that despite the "VVIP" experience, their attention to detail in the cabin and interface with the passengers was laughably amateur.
That said, I'm also wary of airline guys who share some of the same arrogance and have a shocking lack of hand flying skill and/or out of the box thinking. If I am in a position to recruit again, I would look for extensive airline experience, possibly military time and time with a reputable commercial operator like JetAv, Netjets, TAG, or Execujet. No, Vistajet isn't included in that list. I might be persuaded to hire from a small private operator with impeccable references. For the record there is a fast track for pft, most post recession cadets or other candidates who have tried to skip the "apprenticeship"- file 13.
Recruiting a good corporate crews is far harder than for an airline because it's a far more demanding job.
Agreeable characters otherwise, their lack of discipline and logic translated into a complete disregard of SOPs, and very poor airmanship. The particular rub was that both of them seemed to think they were privy to some special kind of knowledge (like being able to depart with ice on the wing, skirting CBs, willfully disregarding AFM limitations) that the rest of us "airline" types weren't, with the added irony that despite the "VVIP" experience, their attention to detail in the cabin and interface with the passengers was laughably amateur.
That said, I'm also wary of airline guys who share some of the same arrogance and have a shocking lack of hand flying skill and/or out of the box thinking. If I am in a position to recruit again, I would look for extensive airline experience, possibly military time and time with a reputable commercial operator like JetAv, Netjets, TAG, or Execujet. No, Vistajet isn't included in that list. I might be persuaded to hire from a small private operator with impeccable references. For the record there is a fast track for pft, most post recession cadets or other candidates who have tried to skip the "apprenticeship"- file 13.
Recruiting a good corporate crews is far harder than for an airline because it's a far more demanding job.
Last edited by Globalstream; 10th Sep 2012 at 08:00.
Agreeable characters otherwise, their lack of discipline and logic translated into a complete disregard of SOPs, and very poor airmanship. The particular rub was that both of them seemed to think they were privy to some special kind of knowledge (like being able to depart with ice on the wing, skirting CBs, willfully disregarding AFM limitations) that the rest of us "airline" types weren't, with the added irony that despite the "VVIP" experience, their attention to detail in the cabin and interface with the passengers was laughably amateur.
Last edited by 500 above; 10th Sep 2012 at 08:59.
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As I said, I have tried to keep an open mind and I understand that there may be individuals who have the self discipline and drive to operate their aircraft to a higher standard. However, after many years in the corporate world, my experiences both with the individuals I have mentioned and many others I had no input in hiring, have largely been negative. I shouldn't have to discuss the advantages of sticking with SOPs, the AFM, the MEL, duty periods, mass and balance etc, etc, but i have had to over and over again.
Part of the problem is the woeful standard of corporate jet training. This is not a criticism of many good SFI/TREs, but rather poorly organized, firehose initials and incoherent recurrents. There have been many of the latter, in my experience, that degenerate into story telling and beside the stick time in the sim ( which is invaluable) no substantial learning or review has taken place.
Manufacturer's SOPs and basic training does not address many of the operational demands (eg. an absence of ground power for non-APU aircraft, a captain greeting pax and rescheduling briefings, fast flows and checklists) that are faced by corporate pilots. Rather than writing SOPs to deal with those kinds of issues, many crews want to rush and skip crucial procedures.
Part of the problem is the woeful standard of corporate jet training. This is not a criticism of many good SFI/TREs, but rather poorly organized, firehose initials and incoherent recurrents. There have been many of the latter, in my experience, that degenerate into story telling and beside the stick time in the sim ( which is invaluable) no substantial learning or review has taken place.
Manufacturer's SOPs and basic training does not address many of the operational demands (eg. an absence of ground power for non-APU aircraft, a captain greeting pax and rescheduling briefings, fast flows and checklists) that are faced by corporate pilots. Rather than writing SOPs to deal with those kinds of issues, many crews want to rush and skip crucial procedures.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
humped luggage
I've shifted it, loaded it, strapped it and carried it. Never humped it.
Must have missed that FCIF...
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ever since the reduction in force of US military pilots some 20 plus years ago, more than HALF of US airline pilots came from GA ranks.
My personal view is that you can be a rotten pilot or a great pilot, but the background doesn't matter. The worst military pilots I"ve flown with were C141 pilots
the worst civilian pilots were from embry riddle.
I've never flown with a woman pilot who worked twice as hard as a male pilot, just to keep up. Same with any minority.
the best pilots I've flown with...one was ex USAF Academy F15/F4, one was ex US Navy Academy S3 viking, one was general aviation all the way.
The poorer you are growing up as a pilot the better you become as every second of flying you pay for ,in your own way, is more precicious.
My personal view is that you can be a rotten pilot or a great pilot, but the background doesn't matter. The worst military pilots I"ve flown with were C141 pilots
the worst civilian pilots were from embry riddle.
I've never flown with a woman pilot who worked twice as hard as a male pilot, just to keep up. Same with any minority.
the best pilots I've flown with...one was ex USAF Academy F15/F4, one was ex US Navy Academy S3 viking, one was general aviation all the way.
The poorer you are growing up as a pilot the better you become as every second of flying you pay for ,in your own way, is more precicious.
Last edited by sevenstrokeroll; 10th Sep 2012 at 11:12.
