least risk bomb location biz jets
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least risk bomb location biz jets
Anyone know if there has been a study of least risk bomb locations for Challenger 604/5?
Generally, "an external door near the rear galley" doesnīt seem to be a useful idea(!)
Generally, "an external door near the rear galley" doesnīt seem to be a useful idea(!)
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Strange question. Why may I ask why is it a consideration - and where might you be when you throw the "bomb" out? I am surprised to see this on an internet forum for pilots. ESPECIALLY following the state of aviation security worldwide
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Because most large aircraft have a specific point where it is supposedly safest to place a device if it were discovered on board, i.e. if it went off, minimum structural damage.
The AFM for most bizjets does not specify any such location. Good question, probably a good solution.
Can I open the door on a Falcon in flight? I think not, and chucking it out the DV window would probably blow my number 1 off.
The AFM for most bizjets does not specify any such location. Good question, probably a good solution.
Can I open the door on a Falcon in flight? I think not, and chucking it out the DV window would probably blow my number 1 off.
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I think the point is about alerting anyone to the potential to throw a package out of a business jet in flight....
If there was a device in the business jet sized aircraft, I think your stuffed - irrespective of where it is placed. Anyone seen how a rabbit warren is cleared using a very small amount of explosive? Its not the local explosion (which if done correctly is very small) but the shock wave going through the open tunnels that kills the rabbits.
The video below demonstrates a relatively low explosive device (used for simulating a real explosion in training scenarios) typically containing only 8gm of explosive (normally a grey dust like mixture known as "flash powder" - a mixture of aluminium powder and potassium chlorate) The mixture carries a fraction of the explosive potential of high explosives such as C4 or PETN. The tighter the device is contained when detonated then the greater the potential damage - look up on Wiki "pipe bomb" to get the idea.
If there was a device in the business jet sized aircraft, I think your stuffed - irrespective of where it is placed. Anyone seen how a rabbit warren is cleared using a very small amount of explosive? Its not the local explosion (which if done correctly is very small) but the shock wave going through the open tunnels that kills the rabbits.
The video below demonstrates a relatively low explosive device (used for simulating a real explosion in training scenarios) typically containing only 8gm of explosive (normally a grey dust like mixture known as "flash powder" - a mixture of aluminium powder and potassium chlorate) The mixture carries a fraction of the explosive potential of high explosives such as C4 or PETN. The tighter the device is contained when detonated then the greater the potential damage - look up on Wiki "pipe bomb" to get the idea.
Last edited by goldeneaglepilot; 8th Jul 2012 at 09:28.
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GEP, most airliner manuals will give a "least risk "location, but we all know that it's just going to blow the tail off anyway.
The OP asked about biz jets, as most manuals don't specify a "least risk" location. They do however ( at least some), have baggage doors that can be opened in flight.
Why do you think the russian mafia all use GLEX's!
The OP asked about biz jets, as most manuals don't specify a "least risk" location. They do however ( at least some), have baggage doors that can be opened in flight.
Why do you think the russian mafia all use GLEX's!
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Purple,
The famous ocean skydive / swim / sleep with the fishes scenario!!
My guess is that business jets don't list a location as its deemed that in most scenarios a device going off is going to spoil your day and probably give your mates the chance to claim your new boots (which are back at home) - the crew are unlikely to need anything material ever again.
The famous ocean skydive / swim / sleep with the fishes scenario!!
My guess is that business jets don't list a location as its deemed that in most scenarios a device going off is going to spoil your day and probably give your mates the chance to claim your new boots (which are back at home) - the crew are unlikely to need anything material ever again.
Last edited by goldeneaglepilot; 8th Jul 2012 at 08:48.
Agree it initially seemed like an odd question - but in the bizarre offchance that it occured in our CL30, then I guess you would EMER DEPRESS then open the baggage door and chuck it out.
No chance whatsoever of it going down a donkey and I would imagine a 604 would be the same.
Next question is what do we do if an alien beams onboard without a valid ticket
No chance whatsoever of it going down a donkey and I would imagine a 604 would be the same.
Next question is what do we do if an alien beams onboard without a valid ticket
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strange?
Strange question. Why may I ask why is it a consideration - and where might you be when you throw the "bomb" out? I am surprised to see this on an internet forum for pilots. ESPECIALLY following the state of aviation security worldwide
Hi goldeneagle. Because it is actually a requirement of ICAO Annex 6. Not exactly an issue for business jets, but we are operating under an AOC, where they have 15 Airbusī and they have an airline mentality and wanted to know if one such location has been determined for the 604s.
Hi goldeneagle. Because it is actually a requirement of ICAO Annex 6. Not exactly an issue for business jets, but we are operating under an AOC, where they have 15 Airbusī and they have an airline mentality and wanted to know if one such location has been determined for the 604s.
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obviously misunderstood
merlin wrote- Mods close this thread ASAP
I hope having read the replies, that you now understand the background and that this is in fact a requirement of ICAO for larger aircraft and so therefore a professional question.
I still think the baggage door, decompress and toss out, is the only logical option.
I have told the operations people, that the question is irrelevant for our operations, but they werenīt buying it and so gave me the job of trying at least to have a Bombardier or other "official" answer. Typical airline weenies I am afraid....
I hope having read the replies, that you now understand the background and that this is in fact a requirement of ICAO for larger aircraft and so therefore a professional question.
I still think the baggage door, decompress and toss out, is the only logical option.
I have told the operations people, that the question is irrelevant for our operations, but they werenīt buying it and so gave me the job of trying at least to have a Bombardier or other "official" answer. Typical airline weenies I am afraid....
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Good grief people, are you being serious??
Assuming you successfully manage to haul open the GLEX's cargo-hatch in flight you'll instantly disappear down number one's intake, right along with anything else in the compartment that isn't nailed to the deck.
Assuming you successfully manage to haul open the GLEX's cargo-hatch in flight you'll instantly disappear down number one's intake, right along with anything else in the compartment that isn't nailed to the deck.
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heh doodle.........Well, I had originally asked about 604 and 605. Our baggage door is under the engine, so it is actually possible, if we can get the baggage door open. Of course, depressurized first. Still seems to be the safest way.
In practise, I think that a pre-departure inspection of the cabin would reveal such a bomb. If not, I have a hard time imagining it showing up after departure....
Anyway, with our class of passengers, I donīt think it is a realistic scenario, but the emergency manual needs the pertinent paragraph.
Stuck-------thanks for the pm.
In practise, I think that a pre-departure inspection of the cabin would reveal such a bomb. If not, I have a hard time imagining it showing up after departure....
Anyway, with our class of passengers, I donīt think it is a realistic scenario, but the emergency manual needs the pertinent paragraph.
Stuck-------thanks for the pm.
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Ok, on a more useful note: Perhaps there might be a remote chance of maintaining structural integrity if the device were packed/sandbagged against the overwing emergency-exit window utilising wet cushions/blankets/liferafts etc.? Smallest hole in the pressure-vessel as compared to the main entrance and cargo hatch. Also, not too close to the main spar, whereas the cargo bay is right next to a fuel tank, never mind engines, hydraulics, and so on.