Hired...or not hired after all???
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Hired...or not hired after all???
Among the numerous constant uncertainties in business aviation is employment in general. "to be hired" has a different meaning in our branch: I recently had a job interview with a bizjet operator; after three weeks, I finally was told that I had the job and that the contract would be sent withhin the next days. After one week, I hadn't received the contract so I called. They said that the board of directors had to "review my contract" but was assured that "my employment itself was not in danger". Five days after that I received an e-mail that I could not be employed due to xxxxx.
Unfortunately, that is not an exception. Even if you have the contract, that means nothing. I know of someone who was employed by an operator in Southern Germany and was told one day before the TR should start that his job was cancelled after all...Other happenings of that kind are pilots with permanent contract, where the employer "converted" their permanent contract in a freelance contract (due to lack of flights in the off-season...). If I get a new bizjet pilot job, I won't tell anyone about it until I've been there for at least six months!
Any similar experiences???
Unfortunately, that is not an exception. Even if you have the contract, that means nothing. I know of someone who was employed by an operator in Southern Germany and was told one day before the TR should start that his job was cancelled after all...Other happenings of that kind are pilots with permanent contract, where the employer "converted" their permanent contract in a freelance contract (due to lack of flights in the off-season...). If I get a new bizjet pilot job, I won't tell anyone about it until I've been there for at least six months!
Any similar experiences???
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I have noticed that with Biz Jets there has been a move towards no contract at all - purely day rates for free lance pilots. If you are called you get to fly if not you have no complaint.
Historically, a contract existed that had the provision of a guaranteed minimum days per month. The 'Fix' would typically be circa 10 days.
In truth, there are so few openings in GA at the moment, there is nothing to say.
I hope that the economic darkness lifts next year. I would suspect that once things start to improve we will see exponential recovery.
Historically, a contract existed that had the provision of a guaranteed minimum days per month. The 'Fix' would typically be circa 10 days.
In truth, there are so few openings in GA at the moment, there is nothing to say.
I hope that the economic darkness lifts next year. I would suspect that once things start to improve we will see exponential recovery.
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Ooou yes
There was a bizaviation company in Slovenia called Alpin aviation - they 'hired' 6 of us: 2 captains and 4 FO's. They (of course) promised us type rating on XL, women, parties on Flavio Briatores yacht, booze, drugs etc. Well, after two months of 'unforseen events' the 'CEO' simply didn't pick up his phone anymore.
I did some investigation work afterwords and found out, it was all an elaborate scheme - the state gives subsidies to newly founded companies for every new employee. The guy that tried to trick us (well, technically, we wouldn't loose anything) wanted us to sign the contract - we didn't want to do it, since we knew something smelled fishy. So we told him, that we will sign his contract when we see the airplane. He disappeared after that
After we would sign the contract (and he would get the subsidy), he would probably tell us, that something went wrong and he cannot pay us.
I did some investigation work afterwords and found out, it was all an elaborate scheme - the state gives subsidies to newly founded companies for every new employee. The guy that tried to trick us (well, technically, we wouldn't loose anything) wanted us to sign the contract - we didn't want to do it, since we knew something smelled fishy. So we told him, that we will sign his contract when we see the airplane. He disappeared after that
After we would sign the contract (and he would get the subsidy), he would probably tell us, that something went wrong and he cannot pay us.
I was once hired by a Berlin based C525 operator, with contract and everything.
When I rocked up in Berlin for the first day of working, having organized (and paid 1 month in advance) accommodation, car rental etc on my own, the CP asked if I could come back 2h later as something had to be sorted out.
When I came back later the same afternoon, I waited around for a few hours, when the MD finally called me into his office with the company lawyer present.
Apparantly the company could no longer hire me due to certain circumstances.. They were very sorry etc etc.
They could at least have told me not to come at all and I could have saved a bit of money. I hate to think this is east German culture and customs.
When I rocked up in Berlin for the first day of working, having organized (and paid 1 month in advance) accommodation, car rental etc on my own, the CP asked if I could come back 2h later as something had to be sorted out.
When I came back later the same afternoon, I waited around for a few hours, when the MD finally called me into his office with the company lawyer present.
Apparantly the company could no longer hire me due to certain circumstances.. They were very sorry etc etc.
They could at least have told me not to come at all and I could have saved a bit of money. I hate to think this is east German culture and customs.
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3-times
Hello All,
it happened to me 3times within the last 6 months. The first case was a big European company, where the Owner wanted to place an aircraft to a specific airport. I do live at this airport and therefore i have some experience with the environment. Anyway it came out that the owner (Russian) had NO money at All.
Second case i already had the contract at home where the CP called me and told me on the phone that it would be no more possible to hire me because they found a more suitable pilot for this position.
Third happened 3 weeks ago, where a company, which was a pilot outsourcing company, was looking for pilots. well they did send all cv of the pilots to the owner, but the owner finally did not accept the outsourcing pilot fees anymore. so they quit the contract.
bad luck.....
greetings Lotuslash
it happened to me 3times within the last 6 months. The first case was a big European company, where the Owner wanted to place an aircraft to a specific airport. I do live at this airport and therefore i have some experience with the environment. Anyway it came out that the owner (Russian) had NO money at All.
Second case i already had the contract at home where the CP called me and told me on the phone that it would be no more possible to hire me because they found a more suitable pilot for this position.
Third happened 3 weeks ago, where a company, which was a pilot outsourcing company, was looking for pilots. well they did send all cv of the pilots to the owner, but the owner finally did not accept the outsourcing pilot fees anymore. so they quit the contract.
bad luck.....
greetings Lotuslash
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Welcome to the "normal" world of corporate aviation gentlemen. Since yoou guys seem to be talking about German companies, how do you say "This is only the tip of the iceberg" in German? I've been hired for jobs that "Start next week" and take three months (or never come to be), and jobs where I had a "three year contract" have ended abruptly when the aircraft was parked or went into extended maintenance. Add in the lack of a schedule, and you have a good idea what you're in for.
If this concerns you (It should), the airlines are hiring, they pay well, and Boeing and Airbus both are planning for long term increase in demand. Airlines do have a few downsides, so take your pick. Private aviation is growing these days, but it will never, ever, be stable!
FR
If this concerns you (It should), the airlines are hiring, they pay well, and Boeing and Airbus both are planning for long term increase in demand. Airlines do have a few downsides, so take your pick. Private aviation is growing these days, but it will never, ever, be stable!
FR
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Good morning!
I would rather say: Welcome to the normal world in difficult/unstable times.
Airlines are better then corporate aviation in that respect? Not really. The large airlines in Germany have made substatial losses in 2011 and have put their recruitment programs on hold. I know a pilot who has passed all the tests of one of these airlines last winter and was promised employment in spring. He has consequently cancelled his current employment contract in GA (in time to give his long-term employer a chance to find a successor which they did) only to be told by his "dream airline" that they can not hire him in 2012... Stranded with no job and no unmployment pay because it was he himself who terminated his employment. Welcome to the wonderful world of airlines!
In general, employment laws in Germany are among the most employee-friendly in the world. BUT they only apply to companies with more then ten employees and only after six months and a day on the job. So you really only have a safe job (if anything like that exists at all, especially in aviation) after six months, including your first and/or second OPC which will be scheduled accordingly(!) within a substantially large company.
Excellent idea! You really have no friends within the "pilot fraternity", at least not in difficult times. Almost twenty years ago I made the mistake to tell a buddy (whom I had flown with quite a lot) that I had sent in an application for an interesting job I had heard of. He called them on the phone right after I was out of sight and got the job...
Therfore, I never signed up with facebook, t witter, xing and the likes (and never will) because the best thing you can do is fight for yourself and be invisible as much as possible.
Better luck next time!
max
Welcome to the "normal" world of corporate aviation gentlemen.
Airlines are better then corporate aviation in that respect? Not really. The large airlines in Germany have made substatial losses in 2011 and have put their recruitment programs on hold. I know a pilot who has passed all the tests of one of these airlines last winter and was promised employment in spring. He has consequently cancelled his current employment contract in GA (in time to give his long-term employer a chance to find a successor which they did) only to be told by his "dream airline" that they can not hire him in 2012... Stranded with no job and no unmployment pay because it was he himself who terminated his employment. Welcome to the wonderful world of airlines!
In general, employment laws in Germany are among the most employee-friendly in the world. BUT they only apply to companies with more then ten employees and only after six months and a day on the job. So you really only have a safe job (if anything like that exists at all, especially in aviation) after six months, including your first and/or second OPC which will be scheduled accordingly(!) within a substantially large company.
Cecco: If I get a new bizjet pilot job, I won't tell anyone about it until I've been there for at least six months!
Therfore, I never signed up with facebook, t witter, xing and the likes (and never will) because the best thing you can do is fight for yourself and be invisible as much as possible.
Better luck next time!
max
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Unfortunately, thatīs the "standard", yes! I claim that this kind of things as described in the posts above happens frequently in the bizjet industry (also in airlines but not that often), which makes it "unique" in the job world in a negative sense...
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So we told him, that we will sign his contract when we see the airplane.
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Mhhh, if every aircraft I had been promised to be crewing would have been build, there would be no parking space available at any airport in central Europe (slight exageration, but...)
Some guys have simply understood how big a carrot before the donkeys eyes an aeroplane is for us aerosexuals...
Some guys have simply understood how big a carrot before the donkeys eyes an aeroplane is for us aerosexuals...
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This happens in all industries! It is probably more common in GA, but maybe only because of the large number of small companies involved. Certainly one to be aware of, especially with a newly-established employer.
