8 people across 3000nm
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3000nm for us is not a luxury, it is a requirement.
We are looking to spend about $15 million (US) so certainly Falcon 2000, Legacy 600 or Challenger 604 money.
We are looking to spend about $15 million (US) so certainly Falcon 2000, Legacy 600 or Challenger 604 money.
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It's been my experience if you really need that type of range the GIV will pretty much do it all
I have flown a GIV with a ground speed of 300 kts, hence making a 3000 ngm sector impossible.
So I would suggest that you define your routes, set about finding the average winds and then decide on your requirements.
Mutt
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Looks to me like Mutt has given you the best advice. Also once you have decided on the range you require do you know for sure your future requirement won't change? There is maybe a lot of sense in choosing something which will do 20% more than you think you'll need.
In terms of the 3000nm requirement the only one I'd add to the list is the Hawker 4000. Purely on the same line of thinking as the CL604, ie much lower running costs than the bigger boys.
In terms of the 3000nm requirement the only one I'd add to the list is the Hawker 4000. Purely on the same line of thinking as the CL604, ie much lower running costs than the bigger boys.
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CL604
"CL604 is the way forward"
"Challenger 604 Will do the 3,000nm no sweat with lots of bags and 8 or 9 pax in great comfort.
Aircraft available at good price compared to a Falcon 2000
Operating costs, fuel burn a fraction of the G450.
Mx costs a fraction of the Falcons"
Best bang for the Buck IMHO
"Challenger 604 Will do the 3,000nm no sweat with lots of bags and 8 or 9 pax in great comfort.
Aircraft available at good price compared to a Falcon 2000
Operating costs, fuel burn a fraction of the G450.
Mx costs a fraction of the Falcons"
Best bang for the Buck IMHO
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the question goes back to mutt's suggestion.
what space do you want to cover and what weather is anticipated. the 604/5 has 41,000 ceiling and others 51,000.
my suggestion is to do a simple matrix xls(not cessna) and just compare the variables. the numbers will speak their own language and you will be able to do a qualified decision based on facts not emotions (falcon vs. gulf stream vs......)
a similar exercise some time ago was done and for a typical 3,000 leg if need be the choice was a lr60xr with a stop and travel first class for longer legs. it proved almost perfect choice, but again it differs between egos.
what space do you want to cover and what weather is anticipated. the 604/5 has 41,000 ceiling and others 51,000.
my suggestion is to do a simple matrix xls(not cessna) and just compare the variables. the numbers will speak their own language and you will be able to do a qualified decision based on facts not emotions (falcon vs. gulf stream vs......)
a similar exercise some time ago was done and for a typical 3,000 leg if need be the choice was a lr60xr with a stop and travel first class for longer legs. it proved almost perfect choice, but again it differs between egos.
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here is what we did.
took the past 1-2 years average travel requirement and gauged if this would be a true picture going forward the next few years.
planned our travel based on first class (c when no f available). came up with cost (4 pax average including hotel, taxi etc), time taken and compared with various private options.
got all the $/h all in and finally presented to management with our recommendations.
now, if there is endless of funds available you can disregard all of the above and go straight for a BBJ/ACJ.
took the past 1-2 years average travel requirement and gauged if this would be a true picture going forward the next few years.
planned our travel based on first class (c when no f available). came up with cost (4 pax average including hotel, taxi etc), time taken and compared with various private options.
got all the $/h all in and finally presented to management with our recommendations.
now, if there is endless of funds available you can disregard all of the above and go straight for a BBJ/ACJ.
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now, if there is endless of funds available you can disregard all of the above and go straight for a BBJ/ACJ.
Mutt
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In my opinion, 8 pax for 3000nm is a cozy cabin. I would consider any aircraft with 3 cabin zones; 900B, 900EX, GIV and GIV/SP and to a lesser extent, the Legacy600. The Falcons are more acquisition and less operating cost. Depending on configuration, I prefer the Gulfstream cabin.
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Until we put capitol cost in the equation the discussion is pointless. I guess if you haven't managed a flight department this isn't a consideration.
Since we are living in fantasy land, I'll take the SR71, cremate the passengers, put them in urns in the storage area.
Since we are living in fantasy land, I'll take the SR71, cremate the passengers, put them in urns in the storage area.
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Not the biggest cabin, but the G280 in "double-vip" configuration would do the trick... Cheaper to buy than the Falcons, and if the operating costs look good too... I just hope by now they're more reliable than the 200 was...
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CL604 - probably the most successful product in this range, for a good reason. You can find some deals if you're not fixated on new equipment. Disadvantage, maybe: tricky in icy conditions (some accidents), won't climb when heavily loaded, baggage compartment small for this size of airplane.
G-IV - will do the job and can be found for reasonable prices. Disadvantage: narrow cabin, even tough some passengers just love these windows.
F2000 - not enough range, but nice cabin, good size baggage compartment and good performance.
F2000EX EASy - too expensive yet, but range is not a problem any more.
Best bang for the buck here: F2000EX 'classic' (= pre-EASy model). Exactly the same as the EASy minus the big screens up front = cheaper. Only 27 of them ever built.
Good luck!
G-IV - will do the job and can be found for reasonable prices. Disadvantage: narrow cabin, even tough some passengers just love these windows.
F2000 - not enough range, but nice cabin, good size baggage compartment and good performance.
F2000EX EASy - too expensive yet, but range is not a problem any more.
Best bang for the buck here: F2000EX 'classic' (= pre-EASy model). Exactly the same as the EASy minus the big screens up front = cheaper.
Only 27 of them ever built.Good luck!
