Question about Epaulettes/Uniforms
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Las Vegas
Age: 35
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Question about Epaulettes/Uniforms
Hi all, I am reposting this in the proper forum...I accidentally put this in a different forum.
I just want to get some advice from fellow GA prof pilots. I fly a Cessna 310Q for hire about 4 times a month to major international airports on the west coast. I usually carry 3 or 4 pax. I am single pilot (duh....) and not 135 (although I do have some experience 135).
Anyways, I never wear a uniform/epaulettes, but I occasionally see guys getting out of 182s, PA28s and PA44s all spiffied up. Could I wear epaulettes/uniform (not full regalia...) ? The passengers probably would feel a little more at ease. IN addition, ramp staff and security at these places treat me like shiz sometimes. But, they treat these other guys (in little 172s and stuff) better. I guess I am asking...is it pretentious of me to wear some bars...if not, how many bars ought I wear? Like 3?
Anyways, thanks guys.
About me: CPL MEL/SEL 150hrs Multi 400TT. Looking to move up....like everyone.
I just want to get some advice from fellow GA prof pilots. I fly a Cessna 310Q for hire about 4 times a month to major international airports on the west coast. I usually carry 3 or 4 pax. I am single pilot (duh....) and not 135 (although I do have some experience 135).
Anyways, I never wear a uniform/epaulettes, but I occasionally see guys getting out of 182s, PA28s and PA44s all spiffied up. Could I wear epaulettes/uniform (not full regalia...) ? The passengers probably would feel a little more at ease. IN addition, ramp staff and security at these places treat me like shiz sometimes. But, they treat these other guys (in little 172s and stuff) better. I guess I am asking...is it pretentious of me to wear some bars...if not, how many bars ought I wear? Like 3?
Anyways, thanks guys.
About me: CPL MEL/SEL 150hrs Multi 400TT. Looking to move up....like everyone.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Texas and UK
Age: 66
Posts: 2,886
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you want to portray a professional image then in my opinion you need to dress the part.
However if it’s just a statement of “look at me I’m a pilot” then that’s self feeding of one’s ego. A private flight, flying your mates - no..
In the circumstances you describe it would seem that a uniform would add to a client’s perception of quality and value of the service. Do you see an Airline’s pilot dressed in Jeans and T-Shirt? What would you think if he/she did?
I’m surprised that you need to ask the question...
However if it’s just a statement of “look at me I’m a pilot” then that’s self feeding of one’s ego. A private flight, flying your mates - no..
In the circumstances you describe it would seem that a uniform would add to a client’s perception of quality and value of the service. Do you see an Airline’s pilot dressed in Jeans and T-Shirt? What would you think if he/she did?
I’m surprised that you need to ask the question...
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also remember that in many parts of the world a uniform is highly regarded and a must have unless you want to increase your airport transit time fivefold.
Try parts of Africa or the Arab countries
On a Citation Ferry from India to The UK I had an Arab Co who insisted on wearing a full uniform with Admiral Bars and a cap for a night out in his homeland. I gave in and allowed him the four bars on the ground
As stated if you are a professional pilot then the image you give to the pax is all important. Black hair? dye in a bit of grey at the temples and give that all knowing, mature look! RayBans to hide the terror in your eyes! Dark pants for obvious reasons Than you are all set to go!!!!
Pace
Try parts of Africa or the Arab countries
On a Citation Ferry from India to The UK I had an Arab Co who insisted on wearing a full uniform with Admiral Bars and a cap for a night out in his homeland. I gave in and allowed him the four bars on the ground
As stated if you are a professional pilot then the image you give to the pax is all important. Black hair? dye in a bit of grey at the temples
and give that all knowing, mature look! RayBans to hide the terror in your eyes! Dark pants for obvious reasons Than you are all set to go!!!!Pace
Last edited by Pace; 10th Feb 2012 at 07:39.
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As for number of bars, personal choice. You are Captain, you have earned four and no-one would deny that. Single-crew charter is a tough job. If you think that looks pretentious there is nothing wrong with wearing three. Two would be putting yourself down. Times I have flown single-crew I wore whichever I found first.
Since you have the choice, get a girl to advise you on gold or silver. They'll know what suits you better. Preferably one you want to sleep with, as they love that sort of stuff
Since you have the choice, get a girl to advise you on gold or silver. They'll know what suits you better. Preferably one you want to sleep with, as they love that sort of stuff
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Australia
Age: 72
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Barring Up
I'm Aussie flying Ag in Asia, obviously I don't bar up on the job, but from time to time I do international ferries of Ag Planes. Then I do bar-up with Black pants and white shirt. And yes the full 4 bars. Its expected, opens doors, and they call me "Captain" !!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Near Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 1,095
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Hello!
You are a lucky man who lives in a free country, so you are free to wear whatever you like! I have flown commercially on piston twins for more than ten years and have never worn a uniform or stripes. Always thought it was inappropriate. And no tie either. Dark pants, white shirt and a blazer when meeting the passengers in the terminal.
Now they make me wear a „real“ uniform with stripes, tie, name-tag, wings and crew-badge (no hat, luckily...). Coparing the workload and the difficulty of the job, it should be the other way round. All I do now is checking that the copilot presses the buttons of the autopilot in the right order. One does not need to wear stripes to do that... Whereas operating an ageing piston-twin single-handed and looking after everything else alone really makes you earn your stripes. So if you feel at ease wearing them, wear them with pride. All four of them. Flying is never going to get as demanding for you again as it is now.
Happy landings,
max
Could I wear epaulettes/uniform (not full regalia...) ?
Now they make me wear a „real“ uniform with stripes, tie, name-tag, wings and crew-badge (no hat, luckily...). Coparing the workload and the difficulty of the job, it should be the other way round. All I do now is checking that the copilot presses the buttons of the autopilot in the right order. One does not need to wear stripes to do that... Whereas operating an ageing piston-twin single-handed and looking after everything else alone really makes you earn your stripes. So if you feel at ease wearing them, wear them with pride. All four of them. Flying is never going to get as demanding for you again as it is now.
Happy landings,
max
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Las Vegas
Age: 35
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
About the operation itself. To clarify. I do not own the airplane. I do not hold myself as a "package operator" capable of providing an aircraft, pilot services, etc on demand. So no, it is not a 134.5 Everything is part 91. Period. The owner of the airplane happens to also be the President of a Company, and therefore uses the plane to fly himself and/or employees to and from meetings. Definitely not 135. Clearly Part 91 stuff.
For example: if a man owns a G5 and wants to fly himself or some of his buddies somewhere on the company (offshore account in bahamas
) he does not need a Comm Operator License.
Anyways, now you guys know. I fly a retrofitted T-41 (basically a 172) for photo flights also, and that is definitely not 135...
I figured I should clarify. Richard Nixon "I am not a crook" lol.
For example: if a man owns a G5 and wants to fly himself or some of his buddies somewhere on the company (offshore account in bahamas
) he does not need a Comm Operator License. Anyways, now you guys know. I fly a retrofitted T-41 (basically a 172) for photo flights also, and that is definitely not 135...
I figured I should clarify. Richard Nixon "I am not a crook" lol.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I fly a Cessna 310Q for hire about 4 times a month to major international airports on the west coast.
I am sure it was this bit which looked odd? It reads like the aircraft is for HIRE while I am sure you meant YOU are for Hire while the aircraft is free to your employers employees on the course of his business?
Pace
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can't see a problem you wearing a uniform of some form.
Number of bars is up to you, don't see a problem with four.
As Pace says the uniform does open doors and cut down grief most of the time. If not for anything else that you look as if you should be doing what you do.
And I also think its fair game for FO's to wear 4 bars if its going to get us an advantage. Any country where the FO can speak the local lingo and I can't its swapsie time. This has led to some very nice pizzas delivered to the aircraft in France, fuel bowsers turning up out of sequence etc.
What you might get though is the feds coming and asking questions about what you are doing just as folk on here have.
Ask the bloke thats hiring you what he wants, he might not like the idea or he may love it. You won't know until you ask and it will bypass the "what the hell are you wearing" conversation.
Number of bars is up to you, don't see a problem with four.
As Pace says the uniform does open doors and cut down grief most of the time. If not for anything else that you look as if you should be doing what you do.
And I also think its fair game for FO's to wear 4 bars if its going to get us an advantage. Any country where the FO can speak the local lingo and I can't its swapsie time. This has led to some very nice pizzas delivered to the aircraft in France, fuel bowsers turning up out of sequence etc.
What you might get though is the feds coming and asking questions about what you are doing just as folk on here have.
Ask the bloke thats hiring you what he wants, he might not like the idea or he may love it. You won't know until you ask and it will bypass the "what the hell are you wearing" conversation.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: South Est
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Isaac
I am sure it was this bit which looked odd? It reads like the aircraft is for HIRE while I am sure you meant YOU are for Hire while the aircraft is free to your employers employees on the course of his business?
Pace
I am sure it was this bit which looked odd? It reads like the aircraft is for HIRE while I am sure you meant YOU are for Hire while the aircraft is free to your employers employees on the course of his business?
Pace
Pace - That's exactly my point (other thread).If it has 4 legs and barks, it's probably a dog!!
I fly owners & their guests in piston & turboprops in the US now. None of the regalia, just chinos/slacks & a polo shirt. Everything neatly ironed, of course. I've seen similar on many corporate/business aircraft including jets. I've also seen similar but with standard business shirts, and I've seen uniforms. In previous 135/charter/airline jobs it was the whole uniform thing with bars. One of the reasons I chose non-uniform like attire for our little business is to avoid giving the impression that the flights are under Part 135 (they're not).
As long as what you wear is neat and appropriate to the situation, ie not usually jeans & T-shirt stuff, most pax under Part 91 ops won't think twice about it. Your demeanor & how professionally you operate the flight will count more. It doesn't matter how flash the clothing, if your operation comes across as disorganised or tardy, and with things forgotten or not done, then your pax won't be happy.
As long as what you wear is neat and appropriate to the situation, ie not usually jeans & T-shirt stuff, most pax under Part 91 ops won't think twice about it. Your demeanor & how professionally you operate the flight will count more. It doesn't matter how flash the clothing, if your operation comes across as disorganised or tardy, and with things forgotten or not done, then your pax won't be happy.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: California
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You say you don't get the service you would like at the big airport FBOs. Do you give the boys a tip? Corporate jet guys know this helps tremendously. A 310 won't require as much attention as a Global or as much of a tip. Might help you out. I don't think the lack of attention has anything to do with what you are/are not wearing.
Regarding the uniform. I've been flying corporate worldwide for 25 years and have never worn the quasi-military pilot uniform. Dressed in business attire or golf shirts my entire career and find the crew ID badge is the only critical item. Outside N. America we always use a handling agency with escort through airports and he's the guy I give the $100 to...really helps to grease the skids.
Having said this I do notice that while my attire is the norm in the US it's out of the norm in Europe and elsewhere. I attribute this to culture more than anything else. I'm a Californian and I understand folks from other parts of the world take themselves and what they wear much more seriously.
I'm on the Global Express and turn up at some odd-ball places in the world at times. No one has ever asked me about a pilot uniform.
My theory is the guys who insist a uniform helps them are also the guys who actually enjoy wearing them. Just my experience though.
Regarding the uniform. I've been flying corporate worldwide for 25 years and have never worn the quasi-military pilot uniform. Dressed in business attire or golf shirts my entire career and find the crew ID badge is the only critical item. Outside N. America we always use a handling agency with escort through airports and he's the guy I give the $100 to...really helps to grease the skids.
Having said this I do notice that while my attire is the norm in the US it's out of the norm in Europe and elsewhere. I attribute this to culture more than anything else. I'm a Californian and I understand folks from other parts of the world take themselves and what they wear much more seriously.
I'm on the Global Express and turn up at some odd-ball places in the world at times. No one has ever asked me about a pilot uniform.
My theory is the guys who insist a uniform helps them are also the guys who actually enjoy wearing them. Just my experience though.
Last edited by ksjc; 10th Feb 2012 at 15:48.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Who cares? ;-)
Age: 74
Posts: 676
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I still can't get over meeting a balloon pilot in white shirt with 4 stripes.....
Actually, you should wear what your boss/passengers want you to wear. If the airplane owner wants a uniform with stripes, so be it. If he doesn't mind you wearing jeans, fine... it's actually HIS call, just like it's the airlines or other companies who decide what their crews should wear.
As a private pilot I have worn an overall with sew-on emblems, but NEVER stripes!
Actually, you should wear what your boss/passengers want you to wear. If the airplane owner wants a uniform with stripes, so be it. If he doesn't mind you wearing jeans, fine... it's actually HIS call, just like it's the airlines or other companies who decide what their crews should wear.
As a private pilot I have worn an overall with sew-on emblems, but NEVER stripes!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Near Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 1,095
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Having said this I do notice that while my attire is the norm in the US it's out of the norm in Europe and elsewhere.
But here (central and northern Europe again), too, it is the crew ID rather than the uniform that opens doors.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Las Vegas
Age: 35
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<P>Ok. Thanks guys. PACE--yea, I probably could have worded that differently, I can see how it arouses...questions. <IMG class=inlineimg border=0 alt=0 src="http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/smilies2/eusa_wall.gif" smilieid="18"> I am sure some of the people from the FAA are great guys<IMG class=inlineimg border=0 alt=0 src="http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gif" smilieid="9"> but I never hope to have to meet any of em. </P>
<P> </P>
<P>As for Uniform-whoever mentioned Golf shirt and slacks=genius. I was living in this absolute world of either casual or formal. This is a happy in-between. I think I will talk to the boss-man. I guess that is easier than just trying to read his mind. </P>
<P> </P>
<P>As for what color epaulettes i should use Flaymy: Talked to the girlfriend. She is all about the gold ones...I guess it matches my skin tone and hair color--and the airplane has a vintage look (with gold trim) and I guess gold=vintage. Who knew right? </P>
<P> </P>
<P>Anywhos thanks guys. Glad to be a part of the forum. You all seem like stand up fellas <IMG class=inlineimg border=0 alt=0 src="http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif" smilieid="23"></P>
<P> </P>
<P>As for Uniform-whoever mentioned Golf shirt and slacks=genius. I was living in this absolute world of either casual or formal. This is a happy in-between. I think I will talk to the boss-man. I guess that is easier than just trying to read his mind. </P>
<P> </P>
<P>As for what color epaulettes i should use Flaymy: Talked to the girlfriend. She is all about the gold ones...I guess it matches my skin tone and hair color--and the airplane has a vintage look (with gold trim) and I guess gold=vintage. Who knew right? </P>
<P> </P>
<P>Anywhos thanks guys. Glad to be a part of the forum. You all seem like stand up fellas <IMG class=inlineimg border=0 alt=0 src="http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif" smilieid="23"></P>
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: In the boot of my car!
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
KSJC
It is a cultural thing. Some now have designer made suits with bars embroidered into the material so that they look more business like than the tradition white shirt and dark pants.
In other parts of the world a uniform is regarded as status and commands respect so really its different horses for different courses.
Position flights for maintenance in the jet we purely wear jeans and casual clothes but carrying Pax traditional pilot wear.
I also had a female co pilot who is a stunner and well endowed up top. She had a habit of wearing pilot shirts a size too small so that every time we hit turbulence the shirt had a habit of popping open but I reckon that was on purpose to ruin my instrument scan
Pace
It is a cultural thing. Some now have designer made suits with bars embroidered into the material so that they look more business like than the tradition white shirt and dark pants.
In other parts of the world a uniform is regarded as status and commands respect so really its different horses for different courses.
Position flights for maintenance in the jet we purely wear jeans and casual clothes but carrying Pax traditional pilot wear.
I also had a female co pilot who is a stunner and well endowed up top. She had a habit of wearing pilot shirts a size too small so that every time we hit turbulence the shirt had a habit of popping open but I reckon that was on purpose to ruin my instrument scan
Pace
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I can see it from here.
Posts: 678
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ksjc
I fly all over the world and your attire is a rarity, I do see it but not very often. I fly in jeans when the boss or his guests are not on board, another rarity. He expects me to represent him as his captain, reasonable I suppose, that's what he pays me for. I also sometimes have government people on board, jeans or even smart casual would not be fitting. Even in the USA most crew's in the FBO's wear a uniform, albeit a lot of them with the leather bomber jacket fashion. The guy's on AOC work would not have a choice and the rest of us conform to convention or comon sense. I have never, never ever, met a pilot that wears a uniform that his employers do not wish him to wear, let alone wear a uniform contrary to the empoyers wishes because he thinks it looks cool.