VLJ - Phenom/Mustang.... "Low cost"?

[eiffel]

With what just happened to Ambeo, a question comes to mind... Are VLJs money makers at all?....

Blink, LEA, FlairJet (UK), Wijet (France), ByJets (CH/FR), etc... are advertising at 50% lower costs than conventional operators (2200€/hr all included). Are these companies operating VLJ (Mustangs/Phenom100/etc..) viable for this market's segment?

What are their business model considering such a restrictive range and seat configuration? Are these operators making any money at all?....

[LGW Vulture]

No.

The buisness model doesn't work simple as. Quite why the investors continue to throw money at it, is simply beyond me.

[Pilot Positive]

I'm not so sure on this one. It would seem that the business model employed by operators who solely fly VLJs are offering a price point which generates volume of business with marginal returns - which makes their success fleet size dependant.

There is a market for VLJs but the question is not a black and white one of whether the model works or not but one of what the market actually delivers in terms of capacity of business. Capacity is very difficult to estimate.

Given the new-ish nature of the VLJ and how it was sold to the industry in Europe i suspect that the anticipated capacity/need has been somewhat over-egged. Ambeo going under will only consolidate this sector further with the larger VLJ fleet operators continuuing to survive at their expense.

[hawker750]

LGW Vulture is correct. The business model is flawed. The biggest cost of operating a new(ish) aircraft is interest and depreciation and the low offered rates needed to generate interest for clients to actually go in a toy aeroplane does not pay for the aquisition costs.
The only way a VLJ might possibly work is if the operation was tacked on to an existing operation so the overhead is not solely borne by the VLJ operation. Until then the business model is flawed and doomed to fail

[Pilot Positive]

a VLJ might possibly work is if the operation was tacked on to an existing operation so the overhead is not solely borne by the VLJ operation

A mixed size fleet is the solution

Both absolutely right...theres always an inherent risk in putting your faith into one new unproven type of aircraft and one way to reduce this is, perhaps, to make it part of wider proven fleet.

However to say that this forum is about some people grinding axes as suitcaseman suggest is a little strong. Its a relatively new sector and there is obviously still question marks to its viability - either as a standalone business or as part of a broader offer.

[LGW Vulture]

Good grief guys - stay in your comfort zone on the flightdeck. Lord help the operation if you get into the boardroom.

[eiffel]

How are operators using a single a/c type (i.e Mustang) such as Blink or Wijet doing then? Are they next?.....

[No RYR for me]

A VLJ is NOT a business model, it’s a business tool just like any other aircraft used commercially.

Nope it is an airplane

Good grief guys - stay in your comfort zone on the flightdeck. Lord help the operation if you get into the boardroom.

That made me smile LGW... Too many already have

The only way a VLJ might possibly work is if the operation was tacked on to an existing operation so the overhead is not solely borne by the VLJ operation.

Exactly. That is why a company like :LEA is able to make it work. All new companies like Blink, AirTaxi, Ambeo all dreamt about lower prices by increasing utilisation. But they all forgot two things:

1. demand is limited and has a few peaks and you cannot stimultate people enough to fly latter or on another day as it contradicts the "on demand" part of the business and the required flexibility that warrants the premium paid by any customer
2. You are competing with a (new!) aircraft that bear the full cost of ownership and depreciation against privately owned aircraft that fly at variable cost plus limited contribution to overhead

And even worse: they all were naive in believing the costings the manufacturers send them (kudos to the aircraft sales people, they did a great job )

[No RYR for me]

How are operators using a single a/c type (i.e Mustang) such as Blink or Wijet doing then? Are they next?.....

They are all moving away from owned aircraft to a new revolutionary thing in business aviation: managing somebody elses aircraft and selling the capacity through a new sales channels: broker and Avinode

[n20junkie]

I fly a Phenom 100 and am also typed on the 300.

As a company owned aircraft, they are an amazing tool for the price. Most business trips REQUIRE only 2-3 people. Bigger corporate aircraft will stick on a bunch of lackies to fill seats, but its not the mission requirement very often.

Now as a buisness model of flying only 100's, i don't think it will ever work. They don't have the range and when you fill the seats its range is even worse. Most clients won't understand this until they are denied thier requests and get angry.

Now a model like ExecAirshare of flying 100 and 300's, i think that will work. They are very solid airframes. Once all the tiny black box glitches are fixed, it will really be one hell of a jet. I have 200 hours in the 100, all single pilot. I love the flying characteristics, and the passengers seem to love the plane.

[Zaurbekas]

phenom100

Hi,
What is max cross wind for landing on Phenom 100?

[Proline21]

One reason the are still in the game might be...

1) The aircraft is under 5,7 Tons which significantly reduces the landing fees on major Airports (depending on the package sold might be neglectable but for a tight budget it can make a difference. There are plenty of Airports where a VLJ pays for example 40 EUR while the next bigger one (CJ3 for example) is in the 350 EUR Zone...)

2) Most operators with Mustangs such as Blink or Globejet depend on broker sales and therefore many sell One-Ways to compete on Avinode and if they are lucky enough to combine two One Ways with another "full fare" deal from A to B the revenue grows... Of course that market is "very low" cost and sometimes risky the more remote the destination is or the less popular the destination is (Nice, Olbia, Ibiza, Palma in Wintertime... Not a guaranteed winner!)

Number 2 of course is just exemplary for all broker focused operators