Gulfstream G650 Crash - Roswell - 4 Dead
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"Mr. Crenshaw is a business jet test pilot and a former US Air Force test pilot, university professor, and airline pilot with over 11,000 hours of flight time. He is an Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) with both domestic and international flight experience and an FAA Certificated Flight Instructor in single engine, multi-engine, and glider aircraft. He is also an FAA Designated Engineering Representative (DER) as a Flight Test Pilot for Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation with type ratings in the Lear 35, Gulfstream II, Gulfstream III, Gulfstream IV-SP, and Gulfstream V/G450/550. He is currently the Chief Project Test Pilot for Gulfstream commercial and special missions test programs. Prior to his work with Gulfstream, Mr. Crenshaw was the Chief Test Pilot for Northrop Grumman. At the USAF Test Pilot School, he taught both in the classroom as Chief of Academics and in the cockpit where he was a flight instructor in the Northrop T-38 Talon, De Havilland Beaver, De Havilland Twin Otter, and gliders. After retirement from the Air Force, he flew for Northwest Airlines flying DC-9’s (-10, -30, and -50 models). Mr. Crenshaw is an Associate Fellow of the Society of Experimental Test Pilots, a member of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA), and a member of the Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA)."
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"Mr. Crenshaw is a business jet test pilot and a former US Air Force test pilot, university professor, and airline pilot with over 11,000 hours of flight time. He is an Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) with both domestic and international flight experience and an FAA Certificated Flight Instructor in single engine, multi-engine, and glider aircraft. He is also an FAA Designated Engineering Representative (DER) as a Flight Test Pilot for Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation with type ratings in the Lear 35, Gulfstream II, Gulfstream III, Gulfstream IV-SP, and Gulfstream V/G450/550. He is currently the Chief Project Test Pilot for Gulfstream commercial and special missions test programs. Prior to his work with Gulfstream, Mr. Crenshaw was the Chief Test Pilot for Northrop Grumman. At the USAF Test Pilot School, he taught both in the classroom as Chief of Academics and in the cockpit where he was a flight instructor in the Northrop T-38 Talon, De Havilland Beaver, De Havilland Twin Otter, and gliders. After retirement from the Air Force, he flew for Northwest Airlines flying DC-9’s (-10, -30, and -50 models). Mr. Crenshaw is an Associate Fellow of the Society of Experimental Test Pilots, a member of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA), and a member of the Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA)."
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posted by Mutt:
Dear J.,
yes, actually he is!
Did you consider that Gulfstreamaviator is actually a Gulfstream pilot, who understands "crosswinds" and flying Gulfstreams.......
yes, actually he is!
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I love sarcasm
41,000 ft at present over Malta, listening to the war birds, in my warm cozy Flight Simulator, drinking hot chocloate, and watching Top Gun.
glf
glf
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The pilots performed takeoffs with c.g. locations ranging from 35.0 percent MAC to 42.0 percent MAC. The pilots reported that aft c.g. positions caused them to rotate at a somewhat higher rate. The pilots noted that these effects were more noticeable when they used increased rotation rates (about 6° instead of the normal 3° rotation rate). When increased rotation rates were used, the pilots noted that the stick shaker frequently activated but only briefly. The pilots also indicated that the simulator was controllable at all c.g. locations using both normal and increased rotation rates.
NTSB Abstract AAB-04/01
To operate in the transsonic region usually critical airfoils are used. They are known for bad behavior esp. in stall. Airfoils during the desin phasis are tested under sterile conditions. I do not know that airfoils are tested for the rotation phasis.
In a situation just after T/O plus a elevator deflection it is thinkable that the down turning side, defect the aileron down, what increase the average angle of attak, what can cause a partial loss of the airstream attached to the airfoil (stall), what cause reduced lift of that side, known as control reversal.
The only imediate solution i know is to reduce the G-load by moving stick forward. Remember weight is G-load multiply with mass. So the partial stall could not develop to a full one.
As i know simulator are used in aviation industrie using table to look up for the datas, IMHO this kind are not able to simulate dynamic situations. It needs blade technology or CFD to get validate datas.
regards
rak64
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@rak64
1. I believe it is premature, to say the least, for a discussion of the accident to CL604 C-FTBZ "5991" to be conducted in this thread. So far the only similaroty we have between the two events is that they were flight test aircraft on takeoff, and resulted in the unfortunate loss of all aboard.
2. I wouldn't trust CFD methodology to capture the stall characteristics of a real wing; if that's what you want then validated table-lookup is far better, but that requires someone go get the data for the validation ... ultimately, the beast has to be flight tested, with the risks that brings.
1. I believe it is premature, to say the least, for a discussion of the accident to CL604 C-FTBZ "5991" to be conducted in this thread. So far the only similaroty we have between the two events is that they were flight test aircraft on takeoff, and resulted in the unfortunate loss of all aboard.
2. I wouldn't trust CFD methodology to capture the stall characteristics of a real wing; if that's what you want then validated table-lookup is far better, but that requires someone go get the data for the validation ... ultimately, the beast has to be flight tested, with the risks that brings.
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Mad Scientist:
I believe rak64 is referring to the October 2000 Challenger 604 mishap in which the crew effected a >9 degree-per-second rotation rate before encountering a departure stall.
I believe rak64 is referring to the October 2000 Challenger 604 mishap in which the crew effected a >9 degree-per-second rotation rate before encountering a departure stall.
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Flight test pilots have the job of finding problems, limitations, issues, for the express purpose of guys like me not having to find them with a plane load full of passengers.
I hope these guys didn't die in vain, and that a problem was found, something was learned, some issue is now solved.
I hope these guys didn't die in vain, and that a problem was found, something was learned, some issue is now solved.
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The Learjet has COVERS not experimental parts. Covers are RED for visibility to ensure they are seen when installed.
The Gulfstream window is actually "Flight Test Orange" not RED and is used for external probes to my recollection.
Unairworthy parts are marked RED such as when unairworthy but on-ground useable landing gear or wheels are used for moving aircraft
The Gulfstream window is actually "Flight Test Orange" not RED and is used for external probes to my recollection.
Unairworthy parts are marked RED such as when unairworthy but on-ground useable landing gear or wheels are used for moving aircraft
Have you ever seen any "first" flight of a new aircraft painted in any particular color except perhaps green?
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Extract from Gulfstream Press release
The G650 struck its right wingtip on the ground as it took off from Roswell International Air Center around 9:30 a.m. local time, following high speed taxi testing. The plane then hit the ground, causing the landing gear to collapse, and skidded along the runway before catching fire and coming to rest only 40 feet from the control tower. The takeoff was the 10th of the day and was part of the testing of takeoff performance and brake systems.
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hawk37
Can either of you elaborate?
Can either of you elaborate?