Blink update
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G-SPOTS,
The market is the size it is at any time, you fly for one company, or another company - the number of employed pilots remains constant no matter how many suppliers there are, it only changes with the number of passengers there are -
No need for the outrage - working for a start-up has a fairly accurately measured level of risk. Talking about it doesn't make it happen, that outcome was set a long time ago, and as yet is not known by any of us.
The market is the size it is at any time, you fly for one company, or another company - the number of employed pilots remains constant no matter how many suppliers there are, it only changes with the number of passengers there are -
No need for the outrage - working for a start-up has a fairly accurately measured level of risk. Talking about it doesn't make it happen, that outcome was set a long time ago, and as yet is not known by any of us.
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Make yourself feel better any way you like Phil...
Theres still people that may have been providing for others yesterday that may not be tomorrow suffering all the stress that that brings, so if you want to make light of that then go ahead....but for all of us who are waiting for the tap on the shoulder do us a favour make your little jokes with your buddies elsewhere and try to resist using your little jokey smiley
gifs....you wouldn't express the same sentiment if there was an ex blink guy stood next to you in a bar.
I never liked the blink concept either and Ive locked horns with blink protagonists on here who were all going to revolutionise the business....
Wouldn't see them sacked at short notice in a difficult employment market though.....
Theres still people that may have been providing for others yesterday that may not be tomorrow suffering all the stress that that brings, so if you want to make light of that then go ahead....but for all of us who are waiting for the tap on the shoulder do us a favour make your little jokes with your buddies elsewhere and try to resist using your little jokey smiley
gifs....you wouldn't express the same sentiment if there was an ex blink guy stood next to you in a bar.I never liked the blink concept either and Ive locked horns with blink protagonists on here who were all going to revolutionise the business....
Wouldn't see them sacked at short notice in a difficult employment market though.....
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Phil, quite right - nobody's having a dig at the drivers, or the ops guys, engineers etc....The point being that Blink, as in the senior management will be the architects of their own downfall should they indeed fall at all.
As Phil runs a company that on some level competes with Blink, its his job to understand what the competition is up to and whether they pose a threat to his business in the short and long term. Phils prediction from the outset has been that the business model of Blink will ulimately not have logeviety. Many in the industry agree with him. Surely pilots can also come to an informative decision based on the large amount of information and opinion that is readily available.
As Phil runs a company that on some level competes with Blink, its his job to understand what the competition is up to and whether they pose a threat to his business in the short and long term. Phils prediction from the outset has been that the business model of Blink will ulimately not have logeviety. Many in the industry agree with him. Surely pilots can also come to an informative decision based on the large amount of information and opinion that is readily available.
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FNPL
Pilots probably outnumber CEO's & MD's 50 to 1 on here if in doubt spell out what Pprune stands for, your posts are in bad taste, if its gone or going under then this thread might be the first port of call for those looking for information...all they'll see is you in effect gloating at their demise...
Its also hardly a start up they've been listed 5 years and flying for 3.
Fill your boots , leave your posts up.... everybody can see what sort of bloke you are...
Good day
Pilots probably outnumber CEO's & MD's 50 to 1 on here if in doubt spell out what Pprune stands for, your posts are in bad taste, if its gone or going under then this thread might be the first port of call for those looking for information...all they'll see is you in effect gloating at their demise...
Its also hardly a start up they've been listed 5 years and flying for 3.
Fill your boots , leave your posts up.... everybody can see what sort of bloke you are...
Good day
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Let's get it in perspective here, I have no idea if Blink are near the end or not - I am not commenting on their likelihood of going pop, I am poking fun at Sir George Cayley's post -
Given that the whole purpose of Blink was to put me and my team out of work (and every other light jet operator) I think I will be allowed a little "I told you so Jig" IF they cease to trade.
Phil
Given that the whole purpose of Blink was to put me and my team out of work (and every other light jet operator) I think I will be allowed a little "I told you so Jig" IF they cease to trade.
Phil
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G-SPOT - please get some perspective.
I enjoy a bit of banter but thats a bit silly isn't it? I have no wish to see people lose their jobs, but then again I have no control over it either.
Our industry simply isn't, never has been, or never will be a job for life industry. If you came into the flying game thinking it was then you didn't do you homework.
Lets not get all moralistic about it. Pilots will soon leave Blink if a better offer came a long. Leaving Blink with a pilot shortage. You have a short memory if you can't recall when this type of exodus has happened in the past. Its just they way the industry works, and sometimes its up, and sometime its down......welcome to the mad house.
I enjoy a bit of banter but thats a bit silly isn't it? I have no wish to see people lose their jobs, but then again I have no control over it either.
Our industry simply isn't, never has been, or never will be a job for life industry. If you came into the flying game thinking it was then you didn't do you homework.
Lets not get all moralistic about it. Pilots will soon leave Blink if a better offer came a long. Leaving Blink with a pilot shortage. You have a short memory if you can't recall when this type of exodus has happened in the past. Its just they way the industry works, and sometimes its up, and sometime its down......welcome to the mad house.
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College Grads
No need to shake your head. Blink was based on a couple of Harvard college grads and Daddy's money. Seen it time and time again. They'll move on to a new project at Daddy's expense.
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BLINK Bye Bye
Phil spotted these guys from the start well done, most brokers trusted Blink 100% with their customers to find that Blink gave the brokers customers business cards on board the flights sent the customers emails and basically tried to take the brokers lively hood away.
Its like stealing from the brokers. If you cant trust a supplier the word gets out quick. I will say they had a few good pilots good ops but were given very poor direction with no ethics from who every was in charge.
Each of the Cessna aircraft has devalued by $500,000 to $700,000 that’s a lot of money when you multiply by four I would hate to have backed that one.
Its like stealing from the brokers. If you cant trust a supplier the word gets out quick. I will say they had a few good pilots good ops but were given very poor direction with no ethics from who every was in charge.
Each of the Cessna aircraft has devalued by $500,000 to $700,000 that’s a lot of money when you multiply by four I would hate to have backed that one.
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Each of the Cessna aircraft has devalued by $500,000 to $700,000
Firstly I thought they had 6 or 7 Mustangs?
Devaluation only applies if you sell them. If the business survives they should be keeping them........... and yes, I know the answer, if they had bought them now they may have been slightly cheaper but I dont believe Cessna have dropped the price by anywhere near half a million if at all.
Devaluation only applies if you sell them. If the business survives they should be keeping them........... and yes, I know the answer, if they had bought them now they may have been slightly cheaper but I dont believe Cessna have dropped the price by anywhere near half a million if at all.
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Blink Bye Bye
CESSNA may not have dropped the price, it's what the Market will pay for used EASA spec aircraft ,if they have 7 mustangs that's even a bigger loss. Let's see how the Market bids on these aircraft my guess is max $1.8 million to $2.million each . For any investor in aircraft or property the Market value is important as you got to know the real value even if your not selling like having your head in the clouds with out information. Also USd getting weaker
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7 mustangs that's even a bigger loss
All the more reason to keep the business running until the market turns around!
I also fail to see why you think Blink bought the Mustangs to sell them again (for a profit or loss?). Investors are more likely to wait for the market to turn around if aircraft sales are what they are after but I dont think that was the business model.
If they have to sell,............well that's another story but its summer now so they should be able to at least tread water for the next 5 months.
From an outsider, they seem to be changing the business model to managed aircraft? Can anyone elaborate on that?
I also fail to see why you think Blink bought the Mustangs to sell them again (for a profit or loss?). Investors are more likely to wait for the market to turn around if aircraft sales are what they are after but I dont think that was the business model.
If they have to sell,............well that's another story but its summer now so they should be able to at least tread water for the next 5 months.
From an outsider, they seem to be changing the business model to managed aircraft? Can anyone elaborate on that?
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I suppose it depends on how many new airframes they are tied to with Cessna - don't forget, the original plan was to have about 35 by now - if they have non-refundable deposits, they might have no choice that to take some deliveries of aircraft they don't need, or lose their deposit money.
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Dear Phil,
Last week, early morning, drove past Blackbushe, where four Blink Mustangs were `"swarming" off within fifteen minutes of each other. Obviously not off to The Mojave desert as they are all back (and forth).
Only one there today.
You must be very insecure if you feel that start up companies are trying to put you out of business. Competition is good bor business as it keeps everyone on their toes.
Last week, early morning, drove past Blackbushe, where four Blink Mustangs were `"swarming" off within fifteen minutes of each other. Obviously not off to The Mojave desert as they are all back (and forth).
Only one there today.
You must be very insecure if you feel that start up companies are trying to put you out of business. Competition is good bor business as it keeps everyone on their toes.
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Stowaway,
I would be insecure if I thought they were going to put us out of business, it's well documented here how successful I thought they would be.
Competition is good for business, but it was never really uncompetitive - let's not kid ourselves that the contribution of Blink is any more than temporary work experience for some otherwise unemployed pilots and ex-Vista chaps.
PB
I would be insecure if I thought they were going to put us out of business, it's well documented here how successful I thought they would be.
Competition is good for business, but it was never really uncompetitive - let's not kid ourselves that the contribution of Blink is any more than temporary work experience for some otherwise unemployed pilots and ex-Vista chaps.
PB
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Stowaway
What Phil is getting at and a few others (me included)
1/ We do not mind competition if it if fair competition
2/ All start ups sell a £ for 80p in order to get market share. They
use their "start up capital" to finance this. Their start up capital is
obtained either by rich family members or "conning" financial institutions
3/ What Phil and I are bitter about is the way all start ups reckon they will
re-invent the wheel when it comes to aviaton. They talk about 10,20,30
aicraft. What they can not be told is that the charter maket is finite in
size, one simply cannot create a new market, only take from the
incumbents.
4/ So for the 2 or 3 years the start ups are selling £ for 80p the rest of
us have to compete in an unfair market. In some industries this
practice is known as "dumping" and is illegal, ie selling a product at below
cost. We all know what happens when the capital dries up and no profits
have been generated, yes you all say what a shame about the jobs and
shout at Phil!!
I think Phil is a little bit fed up at being told that he has not learned something from 20 years in this game!
As far as Blink is concerned I hope they survive because they will have learned a very valuable lesson in economics that the only thing in the long term that keeps a company alive is PROFIT. They should now be able to find a niche market and simply stay in that market. I have met some really good people from Blink (I cannot talk about their management) and I wish them well.
The real downside if Blink do not stay the course is that it will encourage yet another bunch of start ups with their amani suits, business plans and start up cash.
What Phil is getting at and a few others (me included)
1/ We do not mind competition if it if fair competition
2/ All start ups sell a £ for 80p in order to get market share. They
use their "start up capital" to finance this. Their start up capital is
obtained either by rich family members or "conning" financial institutions
3/ What Phil and I are bitter about is the way all start ups reckon they will
re-invent the wheel when it comes to aviaton. They talk about 10,20,30
aicraft. What they can not be told is that the charter maket is finite in
size, one simply cannot create a new market, only take from the
incumbents.
4/ So for the 2 or 3 years the start ups are selling £ for 80p the rest of
us have to compete in an unfair market. In some industries this
practice is known as "dumping" and is illegal, ie selling a product at below
cost. We all know what happens when the capital dries up and no profits
have been generated, yes you all say what a shame about the jobs and
shout at Phil!!
I think Phil is a little bit fed up at being told that he has not learned something from 20 years in this game!
As far as Blink is concerned I hope they survive because they will have learned a very valuable lesson in economics that the only thing in the long term that keeps a company alive is PROFIT. They should now be able to find a niche market and simply stay in that market. I have met some really good people from Blink (I cannot talk about their management) and I wish them well.
The real downside if Blink do not stay the course is that it will encourage yet another bunch of start ups with their amani suits, business plans and start up cash.
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one simply cannot create a new market
That is simply wrong. If it were true most of the businesses around the world would not exist today and thats exactly what low cost airlines did for the masses in years gone by.
The other drivel about an unfair market! All the newbies have the opposite view....... the established guys can run cheaply because they have paid off their "old" aeroplanes and the likes of Blink are having to pay off new aircraft.
The market is free for all and if you cant take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
The other drivel about an unfair market! All the newbies have the opposite view....... the established guys can run cheaply because they have paid off their "old" aeroplanes and the likes of Blink are having to pay off new aircraft.
The market is free for all and if you cant take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
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proceding outbound.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. there are only 2 operators in the UK with un-financed aircraft - most have managed aircraft, the rest of us pay our finance costs monthly.
If the "newbies" are stupid enough to buy brand new aircraft based on flawed market research in the diluded view that the business will fund both the borrowing and the deflation, then it is their own fault when it does not work.
And let's not include the likes of Ambeo and Flairjet in these Newbies. They have welcomed brokers business and done a good service - this thread is about Blink - not all new operators trying to make a go of things.
PB
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. there are only 2 operators in the UK with un-financed aircraft - most have managed aircraft, the rest of us pay our finance costs monthly.
If the "newbies" are stupid enough to buy brand new aircraft based on flawed market research in the diluded view that the business will fund both the borrowing and the deflation, then it is their own fault when it does not work.
And let's not include the likes of Ambeo and Flairjet in these Newbies. They have welcomed brokers business and done a good service - this thread is about Blink - not all new operators trying to make a go of things.
PB
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blink
Tottaly agree with Phil
I Started in 1972 at Northern Executive Aviation and at that time all the other operators were Gentlemen in business none of this undercutting by 2 Bob to get the Job we all worked together charged a sensible rate and everbody was happy (customers/Broker/Clients)
Recently the Armani Suit Brigade came along who know F all about aviation and thought they would make a quick buck because of there Pals who would guarantee them Hours on there sparkling new Over financed aircraft Then came along Mr recession and took the wind out of there Armani Trousers.
Too many operators with too much of other peoples money(Cos they dont use there own for sure)
And then they run into the CAA and there rules so what do they do
Well hes my Pal so its Private or hes a friend of the boss who is lending him the A/c for Nothing (Abosulte Boxxocks)
I am only glad I am now out of this business and I feel sorry for the old school like Phil who has sweated his Bxxx of over the years to now be confounted by these morons with there M- Registration (Ooh its Private) cos its on the Manx registration and they only permit Private aircraft on the M Registration
Phil and all the rest of you por fuxxkers out there trying to wage a war with these Cowboys
Have a nice Easter (That does not apply to the Cowboys) to all the decent honest operators who do it right
Gerry
X N E A
Easter rant over go back to me easter eggs
I Started in 1972 at Northern Executive Aviation and at that time all the other operators were Gentlemen in business none of this undercutting by 2 Bob to get the Job we all worked together charged a sensible rate and everbody was happy (customers/Broker/Clients)
Recently the Armani Suit Brigade came along who know F all about aviation and thought they would make a quick buck because of there Pals who would guarantee them Hours on there sparkling new Over financed aircraft Then came along Mr recession and took the wind out of there Armani Trousers.
Too many operators with too much of other peoples money(Cos they dont use there own for sure)
And then they run into the CAA and there rules so what do they do
Well hes my Pal so its Private or hes a friend of the boss who is lending him the A/c for Nothing (Abosulte Boxxocks)
I am only glad I am now out of this business and I feel sorry for the old school like Phil who has sweated his Bxxx of over the years to now be confounted by these morons with there M- Registration (Ooh its Private) cos its on the Manx registration and they only permit Private aircraft on the M Registration
Phil and all the rest of you por fuxxkers out there trying to wage a war with these Cowboys
Have a nice Easter (That does not apply to the Cowboys) to all the decent honest operators who do it right
Gerry
X N E A
Easter rant over go back to me easter eggs
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Phil
My main point was about creating a new market. All entrepreneurs constantly look for new markets, be it a new application for their tool / product (aircraft) or a new area / location to use it etc.
My secondary point was about seeing things from the other side (a new start up). The 2 operators you mention with with un-financed aircraft (in the UK), do they not come in with often ridiculously low quotes? I'm in the industry and the answer is yes.
It would appear that anyone who's opinion varies from yours "obviously have no idea what we are talking about"!
My arguement is not that the Blink business model is correct (or not), just pointing out the other side to some statements made.
My secondary point was about seeing things from the other side (a new start up). The 2 operators you mention with with un-financed aircraft (in the UK), do they not come in with often ridiculously low quotes? I'm in the industry and the answer is yes.
It would appear that anyone who's opinion varies from yours "obviously have no idea what we are talking about"!
My arguement is not that the Blink business model is correct (or not), just pointing out the other side to some statements made.