Katoom

Another Drom, this one with the original genuine Polish radial attached.

mutt

mutt

Forget the tailnumber, this is now my favorite type.......

Mutt

I.R.PIRATE

Sexiest girl in the sky!

SNS3Guppy

The AT-802 has a lot more performance available than the M18T. The M18 is fairly forgiving, though it can be a fair amount of work in a strong crosswind, or when low level in the mountains in a stiff wind. The Dromader uses full control throws sometimes to effect a roll or a recovery, whereas the Air Tractor tends to use much smaller stick motions, and the effects of small movements to aircraft control are much more pronounced. The Stick doesn't get moved very far or very much in the Air Tractor. Not so, in the M18.

The M18 is fairly easy to land if one stays on top of the airplane. The Air Tractor, with it's spring gear, is a little more squirrely, and a lot less forgiving during landing. If the tailwheel happens to be unlocked, one may well be going for a ride in the Air Tractor. It's not too big a deal in the M18T.

I ended up in the bottom of a drainage hitting a spot fire a few years ago, in an 802. My intention was to exit down-canyon with a steep hard left turn, with my escape along a river. Given that I'd just exhausted the load on the spot fire, I elected to use my energy and climb power to see how much altitude I could pick up coming out of the canyon. In the Dromader, it would have been a down-canyon exit, but I came out of the canyon half-way down, over the top of the mountain instead of through it, nearly inverted and still pulling with extra energy. It was an eye opener; the performance was more than I expeced, and the airplane flew quite nicely all the way out.

Empty, either one is somewhat of a dog. The 802 feels like just another ag airplane when it's loaded. At higher density altitudes with a full load of mud on board, it's not exactly sprightly. Empty, it's a racecar, so far as ag airplanes go. Loaded it's still faster than the M18. Especially with the spray gear off the airplane, in fire configuration.

On the M18T, while I prefer Pratt motors, the Garret had one decided advantage during a steep downhill drop. We set up the motors and propellers via rigging to provide a significant braking force at flight idle. The effect was like coming through beta into reverse, without the loss of rudder. In level flight, retarding the power lever to idle produced a strong enough retarding force that it could throw me forward in my shoulder straps, and a brisk forward motion on the stick, into the vertical, was necessary to keep the airplane flying.

Tweaking the power lever around the sweet spot where this occurred, just above idle, proved to be a very effective tool for controlling speed during a descent. In the pratt powered airplanes, one has to be careful about how one makes a downhill run, to keep speed in check. The M18T has a fairly narrow airspeed range for drops; the BLM published safety notices regarding a 15 knot window for the drop; slower and one stalls during the drop, faster and the airplane can pitch such that full forward stick won't prevent going vertical (and a stall-spin or stall-crash, which may prove inevitable) if dropping the full load. The Garrett motor allowed easy airspeed control, and worked like a charm when doing formation descents and drops, especially when working behind dissimiliar aircraft. If behind a leadplane on a downhill drop in the pratt powered airplanes, one can't do much once at flight idle to keep behind a slower airpalne except jink slightly or pitch; that puts one outside the drop box or envelope. With the Garrett, it's an easy process.

The downside is that if things come unglued with the garret, performance can get really ugly, where the same isn't nearly so true with the Pratt powered airplanes. I can testify to that, having wound up on a hillside during a very active wildfire several years ago, during a torque loss.

mutt

Totally agree, and just to prove it...



Mutt

I.R.PIRATE

monkey_wrench

This was very modern in 1991.....

FLEXJET

monkey_wrench, the RHS picture shows a funny FMS scratchpad!
May I guess the serial number of this one? 1117? (sorry Mutt, not a G400).

I agree, it was the top bizjet back in 1991!

Radarix

Hi Girls and Boys,

great photos, very entertaining thread.
Thanks for sharing.

Here some you might want to try a guess on.







Greets
Markus

I.R.PIRATE

Beauty has no time limit, and she does everything as well as any of the others out there.

monkey_wrench

Fair cop Flexjet....¨ here is a more obvious picture...

mutt

Flexjet you are really starting to scare me, how can you look at a picture like that and guess the SERIAL NUMBER !!!!

FMS scratch pad on the right, are you sure or is it a external video camera screen, the one on the right appears to be on the tail, the one of the left appears to on the nose wheel......

I love the rear view mirrors, just perfect for overtaking

Mutt

mutt

I'm gonna guess Piper Cheyenne based on the left control column... obviously turbine, but I didnt realize that these were capable of flying at 34,000 feet. What sort of speed would they achieve at that altitude?

This is from Google/Wiki for the PA34T.

Mutt

INNflight

How can you leave out the big Canadian?

I.R.PIRATE

The big Canadienne with the dinky little nose gear assy?

dc9-32

Is that engine running Where are the drivers if so

MikeNYC

My guess is a long exposure while it's parked and the engine is windmilling...?

His dudeness

Mutt,that should be the famous 400LS, Garrett powered. (lack of the proper 6 lever layout - only 4, naaaw, no good, me is a PT-6 man :-) )

From Wikipedia:

So the american approach (got to be faster, lets have a bigger engine) plus german engineering make for a real runner...

Piper PA-42 Cheyenne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

FLEXJET

In fact, look at FMS1 and 2 scratch pads:
FMS1 shows A/C-1117-G-HARF
FMS2 shows FAYAIR

First, I was looking for the registration but didn't see it; then I started to look for details...
I believe the picture was taken during the delivery or acceptance of the aircraft. JP BizJet 1996 shows that 1117 was delivered on December 21 1991, and the FMS database was valid since December 12...

After G-HRDS, its owner has received a second brand new G550 recently, registered December 20 2010... Another Christmas gift?

Gulfstream G550 (M-MOMO) | Flickr - Photo Sharing!