Netjets price crash announced
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I realise perfectly well what NJE shortfall's are and what "voluntaries" options may mean but fact is, nobody has been sacked. We (pilots) have entered a "survival" mode and hopefully (not certainly) we, will ride trough it.
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No RYR, AMEX.
Ah, I see.
So these pilots who took voluntary redundancy and the ones who now have half a job and the ones on leave of absence were all asking for such an arrangement anyway? In fact, it is just what they always wanted? And there was me thinking that you'd all been told that if enough of you didn't fall on your swords there would be involuntary redundancies like, you know. Being fired.
The fact that some jumped before your company pushed 300 of you means it's all okay? How do they indoctrinate you guys so thoroughly?
Ah, I see.
So these pilots who took voluntary redundancy and the ones who now have half a job and the ones on leave of absence were all asking for such an arrangement anyway? In fact, it is just what they always wanted? And there was me thinking that you'd all been told that if enough of you didn't fall on your swords there would be involuntary redundancies like, you know. Being fired.
The fact that some jumped before your company pushed 300 of you means it's all okay? How do they indoctrinate you guys so thoroughly?
At the indoctrination (apt word) course, they are force fed the NJE "we are Gods and all other aviators have smaller willies" pills.
What is missed however is that just like the Fois gras geese being overfed, there comes a day when they realise that all that is really wanted is your liver!
What is missed however is that just like the Fois gras geese being overfed, there comes a day when they realise that all that is really wanted is your liver!
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Originally Posted by gone till november
..... couldnt..... your (for 'you're')....amonst.....didnt.....didnt..... condesending.....wont.....didnt.....coffee's.....devisive... ..wont..... your.....Thats.....dont.....your.....you better.....
Finished off with.
Originally Posted by gone till november
High IQ.....****
No idea what the IQ comment's about but not really the tack you want to be taking I think. Pot/kettle/sooty deposit accusation.
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Dear Scratch pad
In case you havent noticed the market is crap. From Virgin, KLM, LH to BA everybody is talking about redundancies. I happen to work for the company that at least had the decency to ask us for smarter solutions. We came up with it and we knew what the alternative is.
Look at the US:
Flight Option: pilots fired
Citation Shares: Pilots fired
flexjet: pilots fired
NJUS: pilots given volantary options and no compulsary redundancies
In Europe we have done the same and why dont you be constructive and point out ANY other company in Europe that did the same to protect 300 pilotjobs and allowed us to still make a decent living!
In case you havent noticed the market is crap. From Virgin, KLM, LH to BA everybody is talking about redundancies. I happen to work for the company that at least had the decency to ask us for smarter solutions. We came up with it and we knew what the alternative is.
Look at the US:
Flight Option: pilots fired
Citation Shares: Pilots fired
flexjet: pilots fired
NJUS: pilots given volantary options and no compulsary redundancies
In Europe we have done the same and why dont you be constructive and point out ANY other company in Europe that did the same to protect 300 pilotjobs and allowed us to still make a decent living!
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Given the circumstances under which many of the Netjets Europe guys were hired (told it was okay to leave their stable jobs and join NJ as recently as the beginning of this year) I would say that was least the company should do. I know of people who gave up the left hand seat at their previous jobs to join NJ on the promise of a relatively quick command there. I wonder how fantastic they think your company are now? Hell, one of them was even posting here asking if he should go.
As someone else already said here, some people take that indoctrination course a little too seriously and start believing the b*ll****. Still, you're all in it together right? Management taking the same hits as you guys? Seems to me NJ management are no different to anywhere else when it comes to looking after themselves, they just have some of you fooled into believing otherwise.
PS. Well aware of the state of the market thanks.
As someone else already said here, some people take that indoctrination course a little too seriously and start believing the b*ll****. Still, you're all in it together right? Management taking the same hits as you guys? Seems to me NJ management are no different to anywhere else when it comes to looking after themselves, they just have some of you fooled into believing otherwise.
PS. Well aware of the state of the market thanks.
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Actually that's a valid question, what on earth were they doing recruiting when everyone else was battening down the hatches? Voices of reason in Lisbon went unheeded, it's a massive c*ck-up. I've spoken to one pilot who even queried their job offer at the time and was assured by Netjets HR that all was well and that they should accept the offer. They did and being one of the last in is now a very, very worried first officer.
It's doubly sad because the effects are being felt by all the crew. Sure, they were offered 'voluntary' packages but it was made clear that seniority was no protection so people who have been with the company since inception also faced the ugly dilemma of either bidding for a redundancy/jobshare/ leave of absence option or sit tight and hope the axe passed them by. Pretty sure there'll still be management bonusses though so that's alright.
Good luck to the (decent) people who are being moved on or set aside. Shame you couldn't vote who got the push, you'd have had a ball.
It's doubly sad because the effects are being felt by all the crew. Sure, they were offered 'voluntary' packages but it was made clear that seniority was no protection so people who have been with the company since inception also faced the ugly dilemma of either bidding for a redundancy/jobshare/ leave of absence option or sit tight and hope the axe passed them by. Pretty sure there'll still be management bonusses though so that's alright.
Good luck to the (decent) people who are being moved on or set aside. Shame you couldn't vote who got the push, you'd have had a ball.
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Scratch Pad, re read my post... I am not disagreeing with what you mean, only with the word that is used. Fact is, nobody has been sacked. As for what the present situation means to me and my colleagues, I know that very well. Nothing to do with Indoc or whatever, just how you understand me that's all.
I promise you I am not happy about it and strongly hope that we have cut it too short so by next spring we can go ahead with the first recalls. Most if not all the people I have flown with have become friends and it saddens me to see how much so will struggle with their lives. I mentioned the word "survival" and that s what we are now doing. Not sacked, just surviving (the pilots).
Hope it is clearer now.
I promise you I am not happy about it and strongly hope that we have cut it too short so by next spring we can go ahead with the first recalls. Most if not all the people I have flown with have become friends and it saddens me to see how much so will struggle with their lives. I mentioned the word "survival" and that s what we are now doing. Not sacked, just surviving (the pilots).
Hope it is clearer now.
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AMEX. Semantics surely? It is a program designed to lose crew members instigated by your management. Some will (hopefully) rejoin you when thinks pick up but a good number took voluntary redundancy which for them is the end of the road.
Before this came about were crew requesting redundancy? If they had I might agree with you but I doubt they were. This really is laying off/firing in a posh wrapper. The upside of course is the better than minimum payoffs.
Before this came about were crew requesting redundancy? If they had I might agree with you but I doubt they were. This really is laying off/firing in a posh wrapper. The upside of course is the better than minimum payoffs.
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Semantics is what it is but in the view of some (not only management but also some pilots who have taken an option), it makes a difference.
So I was trying to be acurate and no more rather than anything else. You picked up on it. Fine.
I know what I think of the program and also know what impact it has on so many I see everyday. Some are grateful (you better believe it) and some not so but we are all big enough to make up our own mind on why and how this came about. It is a thing NJE pilots have to live and deal with, and in a way, it is true that we are all in this together, regardless of the option we took.
Good luck to all my colleagues.
So I was trying to be acurate and no more rather than anything else. You picked up on it. Fine.
I know what I think of the program and also know what impact it has on so many I see everyday. Some are grateful (you better believe it) and some not so but we are all big enough to make up our own mind on why and how this came about. It is a thing NJE pilots have to live and deal with, and in a way, it is true that we are all in this together, regardless of the option we took.
Good luck to all my colleagues.
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VO
Things have been better that's a fact. Seniority has been bypassed which pisses off a lot of people in the middle of the list. These people including myself would have been in favour of axing the bottom 300.
With the voluntary programme, that has been avoided. So who are the winners? A lot of people far down the list seem happy with the fact that they at least have a job. Others had alternatives and took the grand prize in the form of some 200.000 euros.
With a crisis going on someone will suffer, be that number 1000 on the list or number 500. In the end everyone knew that they were joining a non-unionised outfit where promotion was based on merit rather than seniority.
The offered packages were a stripped version from the US deal, which was negotiated by NJASAP and NJA. This has nothing to do with the heads upstairs in Lisbon. The over recruitment has already been adressed internally well over a year ago. It ain't rocket science to figure out that someone has to answer for that.
Had there been a company wide paycut or an axing of the bottom 300, the effect on bonusses would have been nil witnessed by infinite examples in the past 12 months. This whole scheme is about face loss and marketing. Job security for folks on the line is a plus and was called for by the working group. Still have I yet to see any other organisation to go down the voluntary road.
@ Scratchass you keep on moaning about how crap it all is. You do not have to prove that you are a pilot by doing so. What is your stake here anyway?
With the voluntary programme, that has been avoided. So who are the winners? A lot of people far down the list seem happy with the fact that they at least have a job. Others had alternatives and took the grand prize in the form of some 200.000 euros.
With a crisis going on someone will suffer, be that number 1000 on the list or number 500. In the end everyone knew that they were joining a non-unionised outfit where promotion was based on merit rather than seniority.
The offered packages were a stripped version from the US deal, which was negotiated by NJASAP and NJA. This has nothing to do with the heads upstairs in Lisbon. The over recruitment has already been adressed internally well over a year ago. It ain't rocket science to figure out that someone has to answer for that.
Had there been a company wide paycut or an axing of the bottom 300, the effect on bonusses would have been nil witnessed by infinite examples in the past 12 months. This whole scheme is about face loss and marketing. Job security for folks on the line is a plus and was called for by the working group. Still have I yet to see any other organisation to go down the voluntary road.
@ Scratchass you keep on moaning about how crap it all is. You do not have to prove that you are a pilot by doing so. What is your stake here anyway?
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Originally Posted by pistman23
What is your stake here anyway?
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One of our clients who recently left NetJets asked their sales team for a one off quote from Marrakech - Nice. NetJets quoted EUR 11 350 for the 2.8hr flight on an Excel. Thats EUR 4050 per hour on one way pricing on a med sized jet.....unfortunately pretty hard to beat on the charter market!
Obviously if this was return flight, then charter would be the best option. This is why private jet pricing is very complex. High users are normally best using a blend of fractional / block hours with charter.
Obviously if this was return flight, then charter would be the best option. This is why private jet pricing is very complex. High users are normally best using a blend of fractional / block hours with charter.
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I fail to understand the frequent use of foul language against Netjets by so many.
I used to work for Netjets but left to join a major airline. At the time I was worried that Netjets would not give me the security i would want. As it turns out they seem to be keeping there end of the deal much more than quite a lot of other companies. The email of Jonathan Breeze from Jet Republic to his staff was a classic example stating: 'it appears we are insolvent', as if it came falling from the sky. This offcourse being synonamous for: you will not get paid this month and ever again. This sort of thing has not happened in Netjets.
Instead Netjets has embarked on a road of trying to find other solutions than firing people, which I find quite refreshing to see. Offcourse it looks bad on them if the news gets out that they fire 300 people. And also it is nice to have this stock of pilots ready to jump back on board whenever things heat up again. But from a pilots point of view it is better to have half a job then no job at all.
Some people will keep chopping at Netjets and everything that they do. Maybe those should ask themself if it really is valid commenting. There seems to be sufficient fresh ideas coming out of the headquarters in Lisbon. The indoc course is more about understanding the wishes of the company, the attitude they like the crews to display towards the passengers and possible to create a bit of go-minded ideas. It certainly is not a course in trying to state that they are the best of the best, it is a course in trying to deliver the best product. Most of the people that I have worked with were very wonderful guys, without a hint of arrogance and never looking towards their fellow pilots in the FBOs without respect. There is always the one or two that make up the exception, like in any company, but I am sure that they are very very few and I know that the managers were not amused by these people.
With hindsight I would probably have preferred to stay with Netjets than move to the big airline. Things were significantly better there than I gave them credit for and I still believe this to be true even though they have had to sidetrack a few pilots. With the debt mounting high in my current company I wonder how safe I am at the moment. Hopefully they can come up with a voluntary plan if required
I used to work for Netjets but left to join a major airline. At the time I was worried that Netjets would not give me the security i would want. As it turns out they seem to be keeping there end of the deal much more than quite a lot of other companies. The email of Jonathan Breeze from Jet Republic to his staff was a classic example stating: 'it appears we are insolvent', as if it came falling from the sky. This offcourse being synonamous for: you will not get paid this month and ever again. This sort of thing has not happened in Netjets.
Instead Netjets has embarked on a road of trying to find other solutions than firing people, which I find quite refreshing to see. Offcourse it looks bad on them if the news gets out that they fire 300 people. And also it is nice to have this stock of pilots ready to jump back on board whenever things heat up again. But from a pilots point of view it is better to have half a job then no job at all.
Some people will keep chopping at Netjets and everything that they do. Maybe those should ask themself if it really is valid commenting. There seems to be sufficient fresh ideas coming out of the headquarters in Lisbon. The indoc course is more about understanding the wishes of the company, the attitude they like the crews to display towards the passengers and possible to create a bit of go-minded ideas. It certainly is not a course in trying to state that they are the best of the best, it is a course in trying to deliver the best product. Most of the people that I have worked with were very wonderful guys, without a hint of arrogance and never looking towards their fellow pilots in the FBOs without respect. There is always the one or two that make up the exception, like in any company, but I am sure that they are very very few and I know that the managers were not amused by these people.
With hindsight I would probably have preferred to stay with Netjets than move to the big airline. Things were significantly better there than I gave them credit for and I still believe this to be true even though they have had to sidetrack a few pilots. With the debt mounting high in my current company I wonder how safe I am at the moment. Hopefully they can come up with a voluntary plan if required