Aircraft down in Montana?
FAR violations galore . . here come the ambulance chasing attorneys . . oh the liability of those owning / operating this airplane!
**** If we assume the airplane was being flown overweight/overpopulated**** operators like that allow that deserve to loose everything.
The CNN news update says the father of one of the families on board was piloting the aircraft, which rather gives the impression that this was a private flight in a private plane. NTSB΄s Rosenker also says flight recorders are not needed on "such private planes".
Father was pilot in plane crash that killed 14, investigators say - CNN.com
Father was pilot in plane crash that killed 14, investigators say - CNN.com
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Per Federal law - ....
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Perhaps better to encourage all to maintain best proficiency would be toward a more positive statement, Togalk.
Although I do recall a very crass and vulgar old saying of many years ago - "If it wasn't for the Beechcraft Bonanza, we would all be up to our ass in doctors".
Although I do recall a very crass and vulgar old saying of many years ago - "If it wasn't for the Beechcraft Bonanza, we would all be up to our ass in doctors".
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A video of an NTSB press briefing earlier today is available here.
Items of interest:
- at 1405 the pilot requested a diversion to Butte from Bozeman,the original destination, without naming a reason
- radar contacted the plane 14.27 when approaching Butte and asked if the airport was in sight. Pilot indicated "one more cloud to manouver around".
- at 1428 pilot indicated runway in sight, radar service terminated
- at 1429 radar contacted the plane but got no answer
- at 1433 someone on the ground reported the crash to emergency authorities
- a witness with aviation experience indicated "the plane was west of the approach to rwy 33 and too high on the approach, and then started a left turn, banked steeply and started a dive which resulted in the crash"
- impact point is about 1/2 - 3/4 miles west of the approach end of rwy 33
- weather was : wind 320@10kts; vis 10 miles; clouds @ 8000 overcast.
- weather at Bozeman, the original destination was: 290@7 kts, vis 10 miles, clear sky.
Speculation:
- attempted a 360 on final approach to lose altitude?
- low fuel state?
Tragic. So many kids involved
Items of interest:
- at 1405 the pilot requested a diversion to Butte from Bozeman,the original destination, without naming a reason
- radar contacted the plane 14.27 when approaching Butte and asked if the airport was in sight. Pilot indicated "one more cloud to manouver around".
- at 1428 pilot indicated runway in sight, radar service terminated
- at 1429 radar contacted the plane but got no answer
- at 1433 someone on the ground reported the crash to emergency authorities
- a witness with aviation experience indicated "the plane was west of the approach to rwy 33 and too high on the approach, and then started a left turn, banked steeply and started a dive which resulted in the crash"
- impact point is about 1/2 - 3/4 miles west of the approach end of rwy 33
- weather was : wind 320@10kts; vis 10 miles; clouds @ 8000 overcast.
- weather at Bozeman, the original destination was: 290@7 kts, vis 10 miles, clear sky.
Speculation:
- attempted a 360 on final approach to lose altitude?
- low fuel state?
Tragic. So many kids involved
Last edited by snowfalcon2; 23rd Mar 2009 at 20:43. Reason: added weather in Bozeman
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Speculation:
- attempted a 360 on final approach to lose altitude?
- low fuel state?
- attempted a 360 on final approach to lose altitude?
- low fuel state?
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My memory fails me -
I recall Pilatus test flight videos showing what happens when a large power application is made at low speed - acft almost rolls inverted.
Further speculation: stick pusher activated either due to slow speed, or uncommanded.
I recall Pilatus test flight videos showing what happens when a large power application is made at low speed - acft almost rolls inverted.
Further speculation: stick pusher activated either due to slow speed, or uncommanded.
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A study of the area using Google Earth reveals that contrary to my first understanding of the NTSB briefing, the Holy Cross cemetary in fact borders the airport and is less than 1/2 mile from the runway. In addition it is located some 1/3 - 1/2 of the runway length onwards from the rwy 33 threshold, neighboring to the airport terminal.
So in order to end up there, assuming the plane's final track was a left turn, the pilot presumably was several hundred feet high when passing the rwy 33 threshold, and - again presumably - the pilot realized he would not be able to land on the remaining runway.
So, new speculation: Baulked go-around.
So in order to end up there, assuming the plane's final track was a left turn, the pilot presumably was several hundred feet high when passing the rwy 33 threshold, and - again presumably - the pilot realized he would not be able to land on the remaining runway.
So, new speculation: Baulked go-around.
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whatever, sounds like a stall spin.
maybe a go around due to being high on the approach...always happens when you are new to landing at a mountainous area airport
MAYBE when going around, improperly secured cargo slid back throwing plane out of CG, causing problems. (remember dc8 in miami, load shifted on takeoff and bam)
it does seem as if the plane was chartered and not owner flown.
I wondered too about the divert to butte...fuel issues?
doctors and airplanes...you old guys know what I mean.
maybe a go around due to being high on the approach...always happens when you are new to landing at a mountainous area airport
MAYBE when going around, improperly secured cargo slid back throwing plane out of CG, causing problems. (remember dc8 in miami, load shifted on takeoff and bam)
it does seem as if the plane was chartered and not owner flown.
I wondered too about the divert to butte...fuel issues?
doctors and airplanes...you old guys know what I mean.
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"in fact you speak an absolute load of rubbish"
I will review the Stall Protection System video and see if its worth posting on YouTube.
Was I also wrong re the use of the yaw damper on TOL? My checklist unmistakeably states: "Yaw Damper .... DISENGAGED" in both cases.
I am a great fan of the PC-12 and have been a vocal advocate over the years. The safety record is superb by most any measure, and it does a job no other acft can do. I have owned one and will likely own another. However, one of my early flight instructors told me (referring to the 2 place trainer we were flying), "this thing will kill you if you let it," and the PC-12 is not exempt from this statement, nor is any other airplane I am aware of.
Last edited by EN48; 23rd Mar 2009 at 23:12.
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7 Adults & 7 Kids
AP reports:
BUTTE, Mont. (AP) The victims of a Montana plane crash were members of three California families traveling to the exclusive Yellowstone Club for a skiing vacation.
``We were going on a vacation with all the grandkids,'' said Bud Feldkamp, who lost two daughters and their families in the crash. ``They were all excited about skiing.''
Feldkamp leased the airplane that crashed Sunday in Butte. He said he, his wife and another daughter had driven to Montana for the vacation.
``We were at the entrance to the Yellowstone Club when I got a cell phone call'' from my nephew, Feldkamp said. ``He saw it on CNN. He said, 'Nobody survived.' And we knew it was our plane.''
Feldkamp spoke with The Associated Press shortly after he, his wife and two children along with Bob Ching and his wife spent about 45 minutes at the crash site.
Buddy Feldkamp said the victims included his sisters Amy Jacobson of St. Helena, Calif., and Vanessa Pullen of Lodi, Calif. Jacobson's husband, Erin, and their children Taylor, 4; Ava, 3; Jude, 1, also died in the crash as did Pullen's husband, Michael, and their children Sydney, 9, and Christopher, 7.
Buddy Feldkamp said Bob Ching' son, Brent Ching, of Durham, Calif., was killed in the crash along with his wife, Kristen and their children, Heyley, 5 and Caleb, 4.
Vanessa Pullen was a pediatrician, Michael Pullen was a dentist, Erin Jacobson was an opthalmologist and Amy Jacobson was a dental hygienist. Brent Ching was an orthopedic surgeon.
Buddy Feldkamp identified the pilot as Buddy Summerfield.
The Yellowstone Club, near Yellowstone National Park, is a millionaires-only resort that counts former Vice President Dan Quayle and Microsoft founder Bill Gates among its 340 members.
``We were going on a vacation with all the grandkids,'' said Bud Feldkamp, who lost two daughters and their families in the crash. ``They were all excited about skiing.''
Feldkamp leased the airplane that crashed Sunday in Butte. He said he, his wife and another daughter had driven to Montana for the vacation.
``We were at the entrance to the Yellowstone Club when I got a cell phone call'' from my nephew, Feldkamp said. ``He saw it on CNN. He said, 'Nobody survived.' And we knew it was our plane.''
Feldkamp spoke with The Associated Press shortly after he, his wife and two children along with Bob Ching and his wife spent about 45 minutes at the crash site.
Buddy Feldkamp said the victims included his sisters Amy Jacobson of St. Helena, Calif., and Vanessa Pullen of Lodi, Calif. Jacobson's husband, Erin, and their children Taylor, 4; Ava, 3; Jude, 1, also died in the crash as did Pullen's husband, Michael, and their children Sydney, 9, and Christopher, 7.
Buddy Feldkamp said Bob Ching' son, Brent Ching, of Durham, Calif., was killed in the crash along with his wife, Kristen and their children, Heyley, 5 and Caleb, 4.
Vanessa Pullen was a pediatrician, Michael Pullen was a dentist, Erin Jacobson was an opthalmologist and Amy Jacobson was a dental hygienist. Brent Ching was an orthopedic surgeon.
Buddy Feldkamp identified the pilot as Buddy Summerfield.
The Yellowstone Club, near Yellowstone National Park, is a millionaires-only resort that counts former Vice President Dan Quayle and Microsoft founder Bill Gates among its 340 members.
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NTSB Briefing Tidbits
- Aircraft configured with 2 + 10 seating.
- Cabin configured with 8 "executive style" seats (double club arrangement) and 2 "commuter style" seats at rear.
- Pilot approx 65 years of age, former USAF, 8500 civilian hours, 2000 on type, military hours unknown at this time.
- No reported mechanical anomalies prior to this flight
- Fueled in Vacaville with 128 gallons (~3.5 hrs, ~750 lbs), this particular aircraft can hold 402 gallons.
- MTOW 9922 lbs
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From an LA Times article earlier today:
The pilot, Bud Summerfield, lived in Highland and had flown the family for 10 years, according to Feldkamp. He is accomplished and careful, dotting his `i's' and crossing his 't's' and filing his flight plans, Feldkamp said. If you were in the position to hire a pilot, this is the guy you would hire. We called him Air Bud. My wife has flown with him. There are none better.
The pilot, Bud Summerfield, lived in Highland and had flown the family for 10 years, according to Feldkamp. He is accomplished and careful, dotting his `i's' and crossing his 't's' and filing his flight plans, Feldkamp said. If you were in the position to hire a pilot, this is the guy you would hire. We called him Air Bud. My wife has flown with him. There are none better.
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oroville
wondering if the problem started with perhaps picking up someone else in the last stop prior to the crash...unclear about picking up someone or not... we shall see.
you see, one must wonder if the plane landed safely at oroville, what conditions of loading changed ? fuel burnoff should make things better, unless it changes cof g...which is unlikely.
you see, one must wonder if the plane landed safely at oroville, what conditions of loading changed ? fuel burnoff should make things better, unless it changes cof g...which is unlikely.
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now its icing!
I just read the following, I hope you can leave it in the forum:
Icing, overload possible causes for Montana crash
By JOAN LOWY and MATT GOURAS 38 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (AP) Speculation over the crash of a single-engine turboprop plane into a cemetery shifted to ice on the wings Monday after it became less likely that overloading was to blame, given that half of the 14 people on board were small children.
While descending Sunday in preparation for landing at the Bert Mooney Airport in Butte, Mont., the plane passed through a layer of air at about 1,500 feet that was conducive to icing because the temperatures were below freezing and the air "had 100 percent relative humidity or was saturated," according to AccuWeather.com, a forecasting service in State College, Pa.
Safety experts said similar icing condition existed when a Continental Airlines twin-engine turboprop crashed into a home near Buffalo Niagara International Airport last month, killing 50.
A possible engine stall created by ice, and the pilot's reaction to it, has been the focus of the Buffalo investigation.
"It's Buffalo all over again, or it could be," said John Goglia, a former member of the National Transportation Safety Board. "Icing, given those conditions, is certainly going to be high on the list of things to look at for the investigators."
Mark Rosenker, acting NTSB chairman, told reporters in Montana that investigators would look at icing on the wings as a factor.
"We will be looking at everything as it relates to the weather," he said.
The plane, designed to carry 10 people, crashed 500 feet short of the Montana airport runway Sunday, nose-diving into a cemetery and killing seven adults and seven children aboard. Relatives said the victims were headed to an exclusive resort on a ski vacation, and gave the children's ages as 1, 3, 5, 7 and 9, plus two 4-year-olds.
Safety experts said finding the cause of the crash is likely to be significantly complicated by the absence of either a cockpit voice recorder or a flight data recorder, which isn't required for smaller aircraft that don't fly commercial passengers like airlines and charter services.
Former NTSB chairman Jim Hall pointed to similarities between the Montana crash and a March 26, 2005 crash near Bellefonte, Pa., in which a pilot and five passengers were killed.
The plane in both cases was the Pilatus PC 12/45 and was on approach to an airport. In both cases there were reports of conditions conducive to icing at lower elevations and witness reports that the plane appeared to dive into the ground.
"I'm certain they are also going to look at the weather conditions at the time and the pilot's training," Hall said. He pointed to a recommendation on NTSB's "most wanted list" of safety improvements that FAA test the ability of turboprop planes to withstand a particular type of icing condition called "super cooled liquid drops" before certifying the aircraft design for flight. FAA officials have said they're working on that recommendation.
"If you had some precipitation and the temperature was in the right range, that again is an area that investigators would look at," Hall said.
Hours after the crash, federal investigators had focused on overloading as a possible cause.
"It will take us a while to understand," Rosenker said. "We have to get the weights of all the passengers, we have to get the weight of the fuel, all of the luggage."
Goglia said the Pilatus has a powerful engine for its size and is unlikely to be affected by the additional weight of a few children "unless they had an awful lot of baggage."
Standard flight procedures are for the pilot to file a report on the plane's weight, including the weight of the passengers and the baggage and how that weight would be distributed around the plane, before taking off, safety experts said.
Federal Aviation Administration certification records for the Pilataus PC-12-47, the type of plane that crashed, give the aircraft's maximum landing weight as 9,921 pounds, including a maximum baggage weight of 400 pounds stored in the baggage compartment at the rear of the cabin. The document doesn't specify a separate weight for passengers.
Peter Felsch, a meteorologist at the National Weather Service, said conditions measured on the ground not long after the 2:30 p.m. MDT crash were fair winds of about 9 mph, 10 miles visibility, a temperature of 44 degrees Fahrenheit and a "broken cloud deck at 6,500 feet."
The Pilatus PC 12/45 is certified for flight into known icing conditions, according to the manufacturers' Web site and pilots who have flown the plane.
However, like all turboprop planes, it relies on deicing boots strips of rubber-like material on the leading edge of the wings and the horizontal part of the tail that inflate and contract to break up ice. That technology, which goes back decades, isn't as effective at eliminating ice as the heat that jetliners divert from their engines to their wings.
One key in the Butte crash will be whether the pilot had changed the position of the aircraft's wing flaps for landing because changing the configuration of the wings by moving the flaps is where icing problems often show up, said Peter Goelz, a former NTSB managing director.
There won't be any radar data of the plane's final moments for investigators to examine like thousands of small airports, the Butte airport doesn't have a radar facility. The radar at the FAA's en route center in Salt Lake City, which handled the flight's last leg, doesn't extend as far as the Butte airport because of the mountains between.
The last radio communication from the turboprop's pilot was with the Salt Lake City center when the plane was about 12 miles from Butte, said Doug Church, a spokesman for the National Air Traffic Controllers Association. The pilot told controllers he intended to land at Butte using visual landing procedures rather than relying on instruments, which is not unusual, Church said.
Rosenker confirmed that the pilot said nothing to controllers to indicate he was having trouble, including during radio conversations earlier in the flight when the pilot notified controllers he intended to divert from the flight's original destination of Bozeman, Mont., to Butte.
"We don't know the reason for the requested change to the flight plan," Church said. "We don't know whether weather was a factor in Bozeman. There was no apparent reason given for the change in flight plan from Bozeman to Butte."
John Cox, an aviation safety consultant and former crash investigator for the Air Line Pilots Association, said the lack of data means investigators will have to go "back to the old, traditional way of investigating aircraft accidents, looking at impact angles, looking at damage done to the aircraft, whether the engine was producing power or not."
"Then they'll have to look for anything unusual bird feathers, a piece missing off the engine it will be a series of exclusions," Cox said. "It will be sketchy, and it will not be nearly as definitive as it would be if they had had one of the recorders."
The particular plane that crashed Sunday was registered to Eagle Cap Leasing Inc. in Enterprise, Ore. It wasn't listed on any air carrier's operating specifications and therefore couldn't carry passengers for hire, but that wouldn't preclude leasing, FAA spokesman Les Dorr said.
Gouras reported from Montana. Associated Press writer Michael Blood in Los Angeles contributed to this report.
Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
Icing, overload possible causes for Montana crash
By JOAN LOWY and MATT GOURAS 38 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (AP) Speculation over the crash of a single-engine turboprop plane into a cemetery shifted to ice on the wings Monday after it became less likely that overloading was to blame, given that half of the 14 people on board were small children.
While descending Sunday in preparation for landing at the Bert Mooney Airport in Butte, Mont., the plane passed through a layer of air at about 1,500 feet that was conducive to icing because the temperatures were below freezing and the air "had 100 percent relative humidity or was saturated," according to AccuWeather.com, a forecasting service in State College, Pa.
Safety experts said similar icing condition existed when a Continental Airlines twin-engine turboprop crashed into a home near Buffalo Niagara International Airport last month, killing 50.
A possible engine stall created by ice, and the pilot's reaction to it, has been the focus of the Buffalo investigation.
"It's Buffalo all over again, or it could be," said John Goglia, a former member of the National Transportation Safety Board. "Icing, given those conditions, is certainly going to be high on the list of things to look at for the investigators."
Mark Rosenker, acting NTSB chairman, told reporters in Montana that investigators would look at icing on the wings as a factor.
"We will be looking at everything as it relates to the weather," he said.
The plane, designed to carry 10 people, crashed 500 feet short of the Montana airport runway Sunday, nose-diving into a cemetery and killing seven adults and seven children aboard. Relatives said the victims were headed to an exclusive resort on a ski vacation, and gave the children's ages as 1, 3, 5, 7 and 9, plus two 4-year-olds.
Safety experts said finding the cause of the crash is likely to be significantly complicated by the absence of either a cockpit voice recorder or a flight data recorder, which isn't required for smaller aircraft that don't fly commercial passengers like airlines and charter services.
Former NTSB chairman Jim Hall pointed to similarities between the Montana crash and a March 26, 2005 crash near Bellefonte, Pa., in which a pilot and five passengers were killed.
The plane in both cases was the Pilatus PC 12/45 and was on approach to an airport. In both cases there were reports of conditions conducive to icing at lower elevations and witness reports that the plane appeared to dive into the ground.
"I'm certain they are also going to look at the weather conditions at the time and the pilot's training," Hall said. He pointed to a recommendation on NTSB's "most wanted list" of safety improvements that FAA test the ability of turboprop planes to withstand a particular type of icing condition called "super cooled liquid drops" before certifying the aircraft design for flight. FAA officials have said they're working on that recommendation.
"If you had some precipitation and the temperature was in the right range, that again is an area that investigators would look at," Hall said.
Hours after the crash, federal investigators had focused on overloading as a possible cause.
"It will take us a while to understand," Rosenker said. "We have to get the weights of all the passengers, we have to get the weight of the fuel, all of the luggage."
Goglia said the Pilatus has a powerful engine for its size and is unlikely to be affected by the additional weight of a few children "unless they had an awful lot of baggage."
Standard flight procedures are for the pilot to file a report on the plane's weight, including the weight of the passengers and the baggage and how that weight would be distributed around the plane, before taking off, safety experts said.
Federal Aviation Administration certification records for the Pilataus PC-12-47, the type of plane that crashed, give the aircraft's maximum landing weight as 9,921 pounds, including a maximum baggage weight of 400 pounds stored in the baggage compartment at the rear of the cabin. The document doesn't specify a separate weight for passengers.
Peter Felsch, a meteorologist at the National Weather Service, said conditions measured on the ground not long after the 2:30 p.m. MDT crash were fair winds of about 9 mph, 10 miles visibility, a temperature of 44 degrees Fahrenheit and a "broken cloud deck at 6,500 feet."
The Pilatus PC 12/45 is certified for flight into known icing conditions, according to the manufacturers' Web site and pilots who have flown the plane.
However, like all turboprop planes, it relies on deicing boots strips of rubber-like material on the leading edge of the wings and the horizontal part of the tail that inflate and contract to break up ice. That technology, which goes back decades, isn't as effective at eliminating ice as the heat that jetliners divert from their engines to their wings.
One key in the Butte crash will be whether the pilot had changed the position of the aircraft's wing flaps for landing because changing the configuration of the wings by moving the flaps is where icing problems often show up, said Peter Goelz, a former NTSB managing director.
There won't be any radar data of the plane's final moments for investigators to examine like thousands of small airports, the Butte airport doesn't have a radar facility. The radar at the FAA's en route center in Salt Lake City, which handled the flight's last leg, doesn't extend as far as the Butte airport because of the mountains between.
The last radio communication from the turboprop's pilot was with the Salt Lake City center when the plane was about 12 miles from Butte, said Doug Church, a spokesman for the National Air Traffic Controllers Association. The pilot told controllers he intended to land at Butte using visual landing procedures rather than relying on instruments, which is not unusual, Church said.
Rosenker confirmed that the pilot said nothing to controllers to indicate he was having trouble, including during radio conversations earlier in the flight when the pilot notified controllers he intended to divert from the flight's original destination of Bozeman, Mont., to Butte.
"We don't know the reason for the requested change to the flight plan," Church said. "We don't know whether weather was a factor in Bozeman. There was no apparent reason given for the change in flight plan from Bozeman to Butte."
John Cox, an aviation safety consultant and former crash investigator for the Air Line Pilots Association, said the lack of data means investigators will have to go "back to the old, traditional way of investigating aircraft accidents, looking at impact angles, looking at damage done to the aircraft, whether the engine was producing power or not."
"Then they'll have to look for anything unusual bird feathers, a piece missing off the engine it will be a series of exclusions," Cox said. "It will be sketchy, and it will not be nearly as definitive as it would be if they had had one of the recorders."
The particular plane that crashed Sunday was registered to Eagle Cap Leasing Inc. in Enterprise, Ore. It wasn't listed on any air carrier's operating specifications and therefore couldn't carry passengers for hire, but that wouldn't preclude leasing, FAA spokesman Les Dorr said.
Gouras reported from Montana. Associated Press writer Michael Blood in Los Angeles contributed to this report.
Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
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AccuWeather similarities to State College, PA of PC-12
ICING will need to be a big part of the investigation based on the the AccuWeather conditions at the time of the accident. What could have been overweight aircraft that will need to be backed into and could be factor but if icing then this will be the boogy man of flying into known iceing conditions that the aircraft certification process has struggled to understand the variables of icing.
AccuWeather below more on their web site.
Monday's plane crash near Butte, Mont., shares similarities with a previous plane crash that occurred near State College, Pa., on March 27, 2005.
Both crashes involved a Pilatus PC-12/45 single-engine turboprop airplanes that were approaching their landings. The Butte plane crashed just 500 feet shy of the runway, killing 17 people. In the State College incident, the plane was also on approach within miles of the airport, killing six.
The weather conditions for both crashes were also similar. Both planes were flying amid a low cloud deck below 5,000 feet, with a saturated freezing layer between 1,000-2,000 feet. The upper air observations showed a layer around 1,500 feet, the temperatures were below freezing and the air had 100% relative humidity or was saturated.
According to AccuWeather.com meteorologists, these conditions have the potential to accumulate ice on the wings of airplanes, which negatively impacts a plane's ability to control its altitude properly when landing. In both accidents, a cloud layer was present with super-cooled water that would result in quick icing on the wings and a lost of lift.
AccuWeather below more on their web site.
Monday's plane crash near Butte, Mont., shares similarities with a previous plane crash that occurred near State College, Pa., on March 27, 2005.
Both crashes involved a Pilatus PC-12/45 single-engine turboprop airplanes that were approaching their landings. The Butte plane crashed just 500 feet shy of the runway, killing 17 people. In the State College incident, the plane was also on approach within miles of the airport, killing six.
The weather conditions for both crashes were also similar. Both planes were flying amid a low cloud deck below 5,000 feet, with a saturated freezing layer between 1,000-2,000 feet. The upper air observations showed a layer around 1,500 feet, the temperatures were below freezing and the air had 100% relative humidity or was saturated.
According to AccuWeather.com meteorologists, these conditions have the potential to accumulate ice on the wings of airplanes, which negatively impacts a plane's ability to control its altitude properly when landing. In both accidents, a cloud layer was present with super-cooled water that would result in quick icing on the wings and a lost of lift.
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Ice? You have got to be kidding me!
The PC-12 is a snow plow! I have gotten into ice with this aircraft which I called light to moderate, other aircraft in the area reported severe.
The icing systems, Inertial seperator and wing shape make the airplane a very capable aircraft in heavy icing conditions. Obviously you never want to stay in icing, but when you have to penetrate it, this is the airplane to do it in.
What if the pilot saw he was high, and attempted to use reverse to get down... I would assume that at low speed and if you select reverse the aircraft would be rendered uncontrollable. I suspect this is more likely the case.
I have used ground idle and idle PCL selection to facilitate getting down, in that scenerio the aircraft will come down in excess of 6,000fpm just to maintain a given speed. I can't imagine using full reverse and flight idle.
DBW
The PC-12 is a snow plow! I have gotten into ice with this aircraft which I called light to moderate, other aircraft in the area reported severe.
The icing systems, Inertial seperator and wing shape make the airplane a very capable aircraft in heavy icing conditions. Obviously you never want to stay in icing, but when you have to penetrate it, this is the airplane to do it in.
What if the pilot saw he was high, and attempted to use reverse to get down... I would assume that at low speed and if you select reverse the aircraft would be rendered uncontrollable. I suspect this is more likely the case.
I have used ground idle and idle PCL selection to facilitate getting down, in that scenerio the aircraft will come down in excess of 6,000fpm just to maintain a given speed. I can't imagine using full reverse and flight idle.
DBW