European Union Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS)
I suspect that your suspicions are not too wide of the mark...
Come the Q&A session at the end of play, you might like to raise the issue of who exactly can use the 'small emitter' simplified reporting route - it was said at Manch that its only available to qualifying CAT operators, but the guidance material and exemplars say its only non-CAT that can use them, and that small CAT operators which satisfy exemption 11 are excluded from the scheme completely!
Bit of a dog's dinner, really....
Come the Q&A session at the end of play, you might like to raise the issue of who exactly can use the 'small emitter' simplified reporting route - it was said at Manch that its only available to qualifying CAT operators, but the guidance material and exemplars say its only non-CAT that can use them, and that small CAT operators which satisfy exemption 11 are excluded from the scheme completely!
Bit of a dog's dinner, really....
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Livin de island life
Posts: 479
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
(j)flights which, but for this point, would fall within this activity, performed by a commercial air transport operator operating either:fewer than 243 flights per period for three consecutive four-month periods; orflights with total annual emissions lower than 10000 tonnes per year
Yep, that's correct, CAT=commercial, and from the guidance material (sect 2.3, 2nd para):
"The simplified approach is open only to non-commercial operators below the above thresholds. Commercial air transport operators are altogether excluded from the scope of the EU ETS scheme if they remain below the thresholds."
We have now heard from the EA that we're no longer on the list, so can forget about the whole thing entirely. Plus Hazel Blears and Ms Smith have gone, so it's been quite a good day, really.
"The simplified approach is open only to non-commercial operators below the above thresholds. Commercial air transport operators are altogether excluded from the scope of the EU ETS scheme if they remain below the thresholds."
We have now heard from the EA that we're no longer on the list, so can forget about the whole thing entirely. Plus Hazel Blears and Ms Smith have gone, so it's been quite a good day, really.
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hilton, Sheraton or Marriott
Posts: 1,817
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just spent a few days (collectively) dredging through the Environment Agency (creating a better place) 
website doing our submission. Still a month from the deadline and the tosspots have been on the blower reminding me that I'm approaching the deadline. No guarantee that they'll approve your plan (no pass/ fail criteria listed), restrictions in many submission fields of no more than 250 characters (including spaces); a load of drivel, dreamt up by someone who clearly has very little insight into the vagaries of aviation but is way up there on the bureaupole. Sweeping this aside, having lovingly constructed a data flow chart of how I'm going to collate this crud, I am thrilled when I realize that I'm finished with the forms. Eagerly punching the puce green Submit button, I'm assailed by the next page demanding £ 750 for my misery. And, no, you cannot pay with your Amex card. Somehow they've forgotten to stick VAT on.
What an enormous crock of swill.
The owner has already voiced his opinion of the whole scheme as a giant rip-off - now I've got to tell him to chip in 750 quid for the pleasure.
Rant over. But it's a sad day for aviation.
website doing our submission. Still a month from the deadline and the tosspots have been on the blower reminding me that I'm approaching the deadline. No guarantee that they'll approve your plan (no pass/ fail criteria listed), restrictions in many submission fields of no more than 250 characters (including spaces); a load of drivel, dreamt up by someone who clearly has very little insight into the vagaries of aviation but is way up there on the bureaupole. Sweeping this aside, having lovingly constructed a data flow chart of how I'm going to collate this crud, I am thrilled when I realize that I'm finished with the forms. Eagerly punching the puce green Submit button, I'm assailed by the next page demanding £ 750 for my misery. And, no, you cannot pay with your Amex card. Somehow they've forgotten to stick VAT on. What an enormous crock of swill.
The owner has already voiced his opinion of the whole scheme as a giant rip-off - now I've got to tell him to chip in 750 quid for the pleasure.
Rant over. But it's a sad day for aviation.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Annual Emission Monitoring Plans now complete everyone?
Afternoon all,
Not that this industry needs another good kicking, but the date is almost upon us where this tripe has to be complete. Despite numerous dates kicking around on the official website I am aware the "new" date for completion is 12 Nov.
Wondering if everyone has completed theirs yet?
Not that this industry needs another good kicking, but the date is almost upon us where this tripe has to be complete. Despite numerous dates kicking around on the official website I am aware the "new" date for completion is 12 Nov.
Wondering if everyone has completed theirs yet?
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Qatar mainly & Sometimes Oxfordshire or Texas!
Age: 46
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
readymessage7700,
We got allocated to the Greek authorities and had it in for the end of August, as that's when they asked for it by.
Still being put back all the time now though is it?!
What a shock. lol
We got allocated to the Greek authorities and had it in for the end of August, as that's when they asked for it by.
Still being put back all the time now though is it?!
What a shock. lol
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: germany
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I´ve been reading the whole thing but can´t find any subject related to private flights or private aircrafts not flying commercial, have any of you found anything? I´m really interested on that point
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: germany
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, searching on internet I found this
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk...siness/FAQ.pdf
Subject 3
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk...siness/FAQ.pdf
Subject 3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 236
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sent ours in last week and have already got back some questions about our submission. They still have no concept or understanding of a small Private operation. As we operate only one small aircraft with two crew the section about what risks are there that could lead to omission of aircraft that have been operated I entered "No Risk. " Not a good answer it seems. Our "Data Flow Diagram" was "too basic" - which was my intention, Ah well now to complicate it!
For those who haven't got to the end, when I did ours there was no facility to pay on-line you have to telephone and pass the details. I also go the distinct impression that they had only got a small fraction of the 900 aplications that they were expecting!
Oh what Fun
M.E.
For those who haven't got to the end, when I did ours there was no facility to pay on-line you have to telephone and pass the details. I also go the distinct impression that they had only got a small fraction of the 900 aplications that they were expecting!
Oh what Fun
M.E.
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Hilton, Sheraton or Marriott
Posts: 1,817
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My experience exactly. They insisted that I refer to structures within our company that don't even exist just to satisfy their own jargon-machine. Make sure you're having a good day before you start your TKM application - it will have grown men crying with it's obstinate bureaucracy.
Have received confirmation this week that our handling company is prepared to manage the scheme on our behalf but it'll cost $ 3,000 for the set-up, $1,250 per year and $ 5 per leg. Money well spent in not having to interface with these bean-counters.
stickjoc - I downloaded some data-flow software - it was Java based that allowed me to build my data-flow diagram & then convert it to PDF for submission - it was on a trial basis & was no charge but took ages to build. PM me if you can't find it on Google & I'll dredge up a name.
Have received confirmation this week that our handling company is prepared to manage the scheme on our behalf but it'll cost $ 3,000 for the set-up, $1,250 per year and $ 5 per leg. Money well spent in not having to interface with these bean-counters.
stickjoc - I downloaded some data-flow software - it was Java based that allowed me to build my data-flow diagram & then convert it to PDF for submission - it was on a trial basis & was no charge but took ages to build. PM me if you can't find it on Google & I'll dredge up a name.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 57
Posts: 2,438
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
+ 1 for Germany.
I fly for a company that already has to trade emission rights for their plants and therefore have a 5 guy strong subsection to deal with that crap. Have submitted our concept as one of the first, had just 2 days ago an answer.
Apparently our way of dealing with fuel denisty is a nono, they want it for every refuelling (our fuel indicating system compensates for density changes until the lowest probe surfaces [not longer fully submerged] - which is at 800lbs a tank, never landed with that low amount of fuel jet)
Checked the fuel slips - 2 thirds of them don´t even carry the density on them.
According to our emission guys we emit less than the tolerance of their plants in the EU is.
Why we have to do that **** and the small commercial guys with the same airplane are exempted is beyond me. Me thinks EBAA or whoever goofed there.
I fly for a company that already has to trade emission rights for their plants and therefore have a 5 guy strong subsection to deal with that crap. Have submitted our concept as one of the first, had just 2 days ago an answer.
Apparently our way of dealing with fuel denisty is a nono, they want it for every refuelling (our fuel indicating system compensates for density changes until the lowest probe surfaces [not longer fully submerged] - which is at 800lbs a tank, never landed with that low amount of fuel jet)
Checked the fuel slips - 2 thirds of them don´t even carry the density on them.
According to our emission guys we emit less than the tolerance of their plants in the EU is.
Why we have to do that **** and the small commercial guys with the same airplane are exempted is beyond me. Me thinks EBAA or whoever goofed there.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: uk
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
4 Holer, thanks i managed to do it with hrs to spare to the deadline!, it is such a load of c%$p, i find it beyond belief how these people think in such a narrow minded way, or on the other hand how lucky we all are to be able to leave it all behind and go flying!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Livin de island life
Posts: 479
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had some gossip (as yet unverified) that one small operator has been given an exemption by virtue of the total expected emissions..............anyone care to comment on that? As far as I can see there are no exemptions (apart from the small scheduled airline thing).
We are a small ad hoc charter outfit, and have been exempted*:
based on the evidence that you provided (a copy of your Air Operator Certificate ... (aoc number removed) ... and current 2009 flight data) and our review on the emissions and activity data provided by Eurocontrol for the period 2006-2008, ... (company name removed) fore fill (sic) the requirements for exemption from the EU Emissions Trading Scheme under subparagraph (j), Annex 1 of the Directive. Therefore you are not required to submit an emissions monitoring plan at this stage.
*is that even English?? lol.
based on the evidence that you provided (a copy of your Air Operator Certificate ... (aoc number removed) ... and current 2009 flight data) and our review on the emissions and activity data provided by Eurocontrol for the period 2006-2008, ... (company name removed) fore fill (sic) the requirements for exemption from the EU Emissions Trading Scheme under subparagraph (j), Annex 1 of the Directive. Therefore you are not required to submit an emissions monitoring plan at this stage.
*is that even English?? lol.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Livin de island life
Posts: 479
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting.....how does that fit with the rules as published? The small emitter rule said something about 243 flights per quarter or 10,000MT CO2 but specified city pairs and implied that it had to be scheduled flights. Is that not the case?
Nope. You do have to calculate your emissions between city pairs - using the GC dist between the two plus 95 km (from memory) - not just say "we flew 12,000 km in the last year", etc. If you have an AOC, and you are under the threshold, it would appear that you are out of it - no rqmt to be a sched operator. We come under the UK umbrella, I should add.
It has to be said, though, that this year has been a very quiet one for us - it won't take much of an upturn for us to have to submit.
It has to be said, though, that this year has been a very quiet one for us - it won't take much of an upturn for us to have to submit.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Tracy Island
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Really confused now, how can they check euro control emmissions data for SEPP over the last 2 years when PAGODA does not work yet?.
Maybe it depends on who you talk to at the Environment Agency. Still waiting for feedback on my pathetic submission.
Maybe it depends on who you talk to at the Environment Agency. Still waiting for feedback on my pathetic submission.
You know? I have no idea... however, I have it in writing so I care further as much as the system cares for us.
Best of luck, all - and frankly to me, too, when I finally have to roll over.
Best of luck, all - and frankly to me, too, when I finally have to roll over.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 236
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just picked up the following from AIN News;
"The UK Environment Agency is giving operators more time to register their plans for monitoring, reporting and verification of carbon dioxide emissions under the European Union’s emissions trading scheme. The deadline for registration fell on November 12 and a large but unspecified number of operators still hadn’t completed the process by then. A government spokesman indicated to AIN that the agency will not be levying fines at this stage."
Why doesn't this suprise me.
Not heard from them since my third corrected submission, once through the initial stage it apparently goes to a "peer" review - no idea what that means.
Now back to some real work making a cuppa while it's still allowed.
M.E.
"The UK Environment Agency is giving operators more time to register their plans for monitoring, reporting and verification of carbon dioxide emissions under the European Union’s emissions trading scheme. The deadline for registration fell on November 12 and a large but unspecified number of operators still hadn’t completed the process by then. A government spokesman indicated to AIN that the agency will not be levying fines at this stage."
Why doesn't this suprise me.
Not heard from them since my third corrected submission, once through the initial stage it apparently goes to a "peer" review - no idea what that means.
Now back to some real work making a cuppa while it's still allowed.
M.E.